ejolson
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:09 pm

clicky wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:55 pm
It definitively seems like some kind of Gimp related thingy - which is exaggerated by amount of available memory on Pi4.
Have you tried with Gimp on the 64-bit Gentoo image?

Your crash could be another one of those 32-bit regressions that keep happening now that most development is done on 64-bit machines.

eldaty
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:24 pm

clicky wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:04 pm
DavidS wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:29 pm
Kool that you are doing well with a super bloated setup.
I might be wrong, but I wouldn't call it 'bloated xender discord omegle ', really, or in that matter 'super' bloated. :)

I don't expect it caused too much of a disk usage (what is a couple of hundreds of megabytes :roll: if that much) nor memory usage:

Code: Select all

free -h
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:          3.6Gi       751Mi       2.0Gi       193Mi       885Mi       2.6Gi
Swap:          99Mi          0B        99Mi
with Chromium running and Konsole. I'm now curious to see the same usage on original window manager that came with Raspbian.
So, itself it shouldn't be worse than what computers were up to 5+ years ago and pretty much all we have today was made/built on them without issues and people used them on day-to-day basis without any issues. So, why not Pi4?
Last edited by eldaty on Sat Sep 28, 2019 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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diogen151
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:32 pm

clicky wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:36 am
PS Nice picture :)
Thank you ! :D
ejolson wrote:
clicky wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:55 pm
It definitively seems like some kind of Gimp related thingy - which is exaggerated by amount of available memory on Pi4.
Have you tried with Gimp on the 64-bit Gentoo image?

Your crash could be another one of those 32-bit regressions that keep happening now that most development is done on 64-bit machines.
Made test on Manjaro 64-bit ARM; GIMP 2.10, RPi4b/4GB RAM, with that picture ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LuLYwA ... sp=sharing ) and had no problem in several tries.
Only 2,2 GB RAM used, no swapping, very fast sharpening !
comments >/dev/null ;-)

gkreidl
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:09 pm

diogen151 wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:32 pm
clicky wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:36 am
PS Nice picture :)
Thank you ! :D
ejolson wrote:
clicky wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:55 pm
It definitively seems like some kind of Gimp related thingy - which is exaggerated by amount of available memory on Pi4.
Have you tried with Gimp on the 64-bit Gentoo image?

Your crash could be another one of those 32-bit regressions that keep happening now that most development is done on 64-bit machines.
Made test on Manjaro 64-bit ARM; GIMP 2.10, RPi4b/4GB RAM, with that picture ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LuLYwA ... sp=sharing ) and had no problem in several tries.
Only 2,2 GB RAM used, no swapping, very fast sharpening !
Did you run the test (unsharp masking) repeatedly on the samne image (without reopening)?
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diogen151
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:22 pm

gkreidl wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:09 pm
Did you run the test (unsharp masking) repeatedly on the samne image (without reopening)?
Yes. Manjaro ARM 64 bit is stable, in Raspbian crashes in 50 % trials.
I have tested also with 28 MB jpeg, in Raspbian no chance to complete sharp(unsharp mask) in Manjaro very fast and no crash in several attempts.
comments >/dev/null ;-)

RossDv8
Posts: 236
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Sep 27, 2019 2:25 am

This image:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1LuLYwA ... sp=sharing

is scan of old dia-slide from late 70-ties.
5 attempts, GIMP crashes 3 times - 2 successful Sharpen(Unsharp Mask)
I downloaded that 18MB image and tried it in Raspbian with the Pi still overclocked to 1.8GHz, and 4 Virtual Desktops open with: Chromium open with several tabs, a couple of instances of the file manager open, geeqie open viewing the results and the Task Manager running on top to see what was happening.

GIMP shows the working size of the image at close to 400MB, as does Task Manager until a GIMP filter is chosen, at which time the memory use jumps to around 2500MB+ out of about 3700MB available RAM. During processing it varied above and below 3000MB over several Unsharp operations, but it worked each time and it processed quite quickly. Too quickly for me to capture the progress dial with my screen shot script (set at 8 seconds to allow me to capture the Filter selection).

So I changed the defaults. Increased Radius from 3 to 5 and increased Amount from 0.5 to 1.5. And managed to hang GIMP once out of all the tests, so there is an issue somewhere, but it didn't lock the system - I could still close GIMP. But it only locked up once.
Speed of the filter seemed not much different from the same operation on the Celeron BRIX (I ran it for comparison on the other HDMI input on my screen)
I was taking delayed screen shots at the time I hung it, so that might be part of the cause. I closed a few open instances of File Manager and ran the tests again with Radius at 5 and various settings of Amount from 1.5 to 2.5, including doing it again just now (while typing this sentence) and it is working fine.

Maximum memory usage runs up to a little under 3050MB, but averages 2400MB to 2700MB. CPU goes from about 20% to occasionally 44%, but sits mostly around 24%.

I still have an 8GB swapfile, but it hasn't quite used that yet.

For myself, GIMPing photos from my camera is one of my main day to day uses for a Desktop computer, and my main reason for replying to this post in the first place :-) I still need to try out a few of my Imagemagick scripts that I use to automate batch processing of things like unsharp etc.

I'm looking at the screenshots of Openshot while it was processing an mp4. CPU Usage peaked at 64% but averaged about 45%. RAM used however was only averaging 1.5GB for the entire operation. And no hangup. I ran that o several files with similar results. And that was when the Pi was overclocked to 2GHz and overvoltage =4. I also had no swapfile at the time but that probably made no difference. Openshot was only rendering at 7.6fps, possibly because I chose high res as the output.

But I am surprised that Openshot only used about half the RAM that GIMP used !
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clicky
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:00 pm

To continue with the theme of the thread - I've continued to use Raspberry Pi 4 almost exclusively after work and during weekend (even my wife noticed I stopped taking my MBP any more). All along the lines 'eat your own dog food'...

Most of the usage is along everyday tasks as email/web (including this forum) + development: PyCharm for lightweight Python and AVR assembler and now over weekend a lot of LibGDX stuff - Idea as main IDE.

I've imported and tinkered with our Virtual PiNoon, PiWars project: https://www.unleadedsnail.com/piwars/
It might not work on any other browser but Chrome (Chromium) at the moment the way it is compiled, but that's only temporary...
Source code is here https://github.com/GamesCreatorsClub/GCC-VirtualRover) - I've updated it to use the latest gradle used by LibGDX and the latest LibGDX libraries (RPi versions). Even GWT is compiled on RPi 4 (instead of 1:00 -1:30min it did last slightly over 4 minutes) and deployed it above. All code fixed and tested on RPi (obviously). For that I wanted to whip in some sound so I've added Audacity to the list of tools I've installed on RPi (aside of gradle, Idea, Gimp, ...).

Looking at all that I wanted to make something (almost) from the scratch in LibGDX to push RPi4's GPU - so here it is:
https://www.abstracthorizon.org/libgdx/rpi-rog/
It is best viewed on the Raspberyr Pi where it can achieve up to 10fps (usually 7-9fps), which doesn't seem a lot from perspective of fast, modern laptops and desktops with fancy graphics cards (you're probably checking it now from) .For £54 all in one little computer that's quite good.

As I said - all was done on the Raspberry Pi 4 starting from gdx-setup.jar, updating code in Idea to testing it directly on desktop and compiling GWT.. BTW source code is here: https://github.com/natdan/rpi-libgdx-ex ... er/rpi-rog

Whoever is very interested (and brave to trust me) - jar file is here: https://www.abstracthorizon.org/libgdx/ ... pi-rog.jar
I've tested it with JDK1.8 (v211) and OpenJDK 11 delivered with Buster. You can start it with:

Code: Select all

$ java -jar rpi-rog.jar
Given experience so far there's very good chance I'll just continue like this for foreseeable future. It has pretty much what I need and it just works. I like simplicity and ease of use of OSX (and virtually no maintenance) - but Linux is still my first love. Also, it is very convenient for it to be on 24/7 (~15W at peak is not much to be worried about) and it reassembles what I had from my first MBP - instant development environment - not portable though but for set of projects I'm currently doing it doesn't have to be.

Since this is a longish post I've taken a picture of my desktop while finalising Ray of God code. Here it is:
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RossDv8
Posts: 236
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Tue Oct 01, 2019 12:40 am

clicky wrote:
To continue with the theme of the thread - I've continued to use Raspberry Pi 4 almost exclusively after work and during weekend (even my wife noticed I stopped taking my MBP any more). All along the lines 'eat your own dog food'...
This pos twas UPDATED again on Wed 2nd Oct 2019
I've had a similar experience here, using the Pi 4 on a daily basis now :-) I know there's a little bit of a difference between Kubuntu on my usual Desktop computers and Raspbian on the Pi,, but that aside, some days now I forget I am using the Pi 4 until I need to print something, or until I want to do some banking .
To do banking I like to use a VPN (mine is Private Internet Access) and for the life of me, I can't get PIA-VPN working. I replicated everything exactly the way I set it up on the Pi 3B+, then when it didn't start, I updated the server (the Aussie servers changed recently), but the indicator just keeps spinning, then falls back to an open connection.
** Found a solution, see in the list below..

But for everything else, day to day the Pi 4 is proving excellent. The following list is some of the stuff I added to make day to day use easier.
Still running overclocked.
Tested the boot and reboot problem with default clock settings. Problem is still there but seems to disappear if I eject and unplug any USB devices (Only tested USB 3). I've just moved my wireless keyboard receiver from USB 3 to USB 2 to see if that has any effect.
** Found a solution - Changed form a powered hub to a non-powered hub and stopped using splitter cables (y-adapter cables) to power my bigger drives. If I have to run the 3TB USB 3 drive, I make sure I eject it and unplug the data cable between the splitter and the Pi 4.

I'm now back to overclock set at 1800 and increased overvoltage to 3. gpu is at 600. Still stable. gpu memory is at 256, but 128 seems to be no different so I might set it back. (I think the Engineers here said anything needed above 128MB is allocated dynamically)

I have added:
- Single click Screen Shot (using scrotum)
- Single click an icon on the desktop to randomly change the wallpaper (instead of opening the Desktop Preferences Menu)
- Installed firefox-esr (from the repo, then modified to work more securely with Tor)
- Single click to start Tor. Tor - working nicely EXCEPT a 'The proxy server is refusing connections' on non https sites.
Googling shows this is a common problem, not specific to Raspbian)
( the proxy server error is Usually fixed by simply adding https:// manually at the beginning of the web address)
- An Icon to open Chromium with ytdl_server and OMXplayer as the default for video (switching back to VLC is easy, but OMX is still smoother)
- Guenter Kriedl's 'PLAY' bookmark in Chromium to use the ytdl_server to extract and play video (smoother than VLC internally)
- SMtube and mpv with youtube-dl+mpv as the default for video. (Plays almost as smoothly as OMX, but is a dedicated YouTube app).
- Created a new Panel down one side with the icons to run each of the above scripts with a single click.
- ** Finally got PIA-VPN working.
I tried some steps on the forum for the Pi 4 - failed ( had to reflash th microSD)
Tried the configuration that worked on the Pi 3B+ - failed, but now I have the Gnome Network Manager installed (which I like anyway)
THEN. I remembered Private Internet Access has a Chrome Extension !! Installed it, tested it with advanced DNS Leak tests - Passed!
Now I can do my online bonking.

At teh moment, that jus leaves 'printing' preventing me using the Pi as my 'permanent' to day Desktop computer. But I can get through most days without ever turning on any of the big computers or even the BRIX.. :D

(Still trying to find a workable full time print solution. Brother supposedly has a generic armhf driver - but I can't find the thing..)
Remember, nobody is listening to you
until you fart ...

Giga_Pi
Posts: 41
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:42 am

clicky wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:00 pm
To continue with the theme of the thread - I've continued to use Raspberry Pi 4 almost exclusively after work and during weekend (even my wife noticed I stopped taking my MBP any more). All along the lines 'eat your own dog food'...

Most of the usage is along everyday tasks as email/web (including this forum) + development: PyCharm for lightweight Python and AVR assembler and now over weekend a lot of LibGDX stuff - Idea as main IDE.

I've imported and tinkered with our Virtual PiNoon, PiWars project: https://www.unleadedsnail.com/piwars/
It might not work on any other browser but Chrome (Chromium) at the moment the way it is compiled, but that's only temporary...
Source code is here https://github.com/GamesCreatorsClub/GCC-VirtualRover) - I've updated it to use the latest gradle used by LibGDX and the latest LibGDX libraries (RPi versions). Even GWT is compiled on RPi 4 (instead of 1:00 -1:30min it did last slightly over 4 minutes) and deployed it above. All code fixed and tested on RPi (obviously). For that I wanted to whip in some sound so I've added Audacity to the list of tools I've installed on RPi (aside of gradle, Idea, Gimp, ...).

Looking at all that I wanted to make something (almost) from the scratch in LibGDX to push RPi4's GPU - so here it is:
https://www.abstracthorizon.org/libgdx/rpi-rog/
It is best viewed on the Raspberyr Pi where it can achieve up to 10fps (usually 7-9fps), which doesn't seem a lot from perspective of fast, modern laptops and desktops with fancy graphics cards (you're probably checking it now from) .For £54 all in one little computer that's quite good.

As I said - all was done on the Raspberry Pi 4 starting from gdx-setup.jar, updating code in Idea to testing it directly on desktop and compiling GWT.. BTW source code is here: https://github.com/natdan/rpi-libgdx-ex ... er/rpi-rog

Whoever is very interested (and brave to trust me) - jar file is here: https://www.abstracthorizon.org/libgdx/ ... pi-rog.jar
I've tested it with JDK1.8 (v211) and OpenJDK 11 delivered with Buster. You can start it with:

Code: Select all

$ java -jar rpi-rog.jar
Given experience so far there's very good chance I'll just continue like this for foreseeable future. It has pretty much what I need and it just works. I like simplicity and ease of use of OSX (and virtually no maintenance) - but Linux is still my first love. Also, it is very convenient for it to be on 24/7 (~15W at peak is not much to be worried about) and it reassembles what I had from my first MBP - instant development environment - not portable though but for set of projects I'm currently doing it doesn't have to be.

Since this is a longish post I've taken a picture of my desktop while finalising Ray of God code. Here it is:
I noticed you used the McMojave KDE plasma theme. I used that for a while.

I followed all the steps you took to get the animations working perfectly. Runs great.

Still trying to find time to buy a microHDMI to HDMI socket, as my TV does not like my Pi4, but once I do, It'll totally be the dominating computer I own.

Just out of interest, have you got SDDM to work yet? I can't get it to work so have had to stick to GDM3. If you have, can you give me instructions?

Thanks!

Giga_Pi
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clicky
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:36 am

Giga_Pi wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:42 am
I noticed you used the McMojave KDE plasma theme. I used that for a while.

I followed all the steps you took to get the animations working perfectly. Runs great.

Still trying to find time to buy a microHDMI to HDMI socket, as my TV does not like my Pi4, but once I do, It'll totally be the dominating computer I own.

Just out of interest, have you got SDDM to work yet? I can't get it to work so have had to stick to GDM3. If you have, can you give me instructions?

Thanks!

Giga_Pi
I genuinely don't know. I've *just* done it. Wasn't even aware of the name of the theme - it just looked nice (I haven't chosen it because it reassembles OSX).

As for SDDM - I had to check - and it seems that SDDM is working for me. Cannot remember doing anything special to get it running. Not even sure where you set it! (I certainly haven't messed with config files in this instance)
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Giga_Pi
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:59 am

I genuinely *do* know.

Anyway, maybe the version of raspbian I'm using is a little broken. Who knows...
Microsoft can't help their neighbors, that's bad, hackers, that's bad!

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clicky
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:05 pm

Giga_Pi wrote:
Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:59 am
I genuinely *do* know.

Anyway, maybe the version of raspbian I'm using is a little broken. Who knows...
Mine was pretty much vanilla Raspbian + extra packages I installed when needed. And I just didn't pay attention to what I was installing. Sorry :)

Giga_Pi
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:26 pm

'Tis fine.
Microsoft can't help their neighbors, that's bad, hackers, that's bad!

Giga_Pi
Posts: 41
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:29 pm

For those who want to know, gnome3 is working on my Pi4, as well as cinnamon. I haven't been able to try the proper graphical performance, as my Pi4 currently has to overscan at the moment.

They are both "usable". I've been able to steam link using KDE Plasma, Gnome, and cinnamon.

Edit: Just realised this is potentially derailing the topic. Apologise.
Microsoft can't help their neighbors, that's bad, hackers, that's bad!

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clicky
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:17 pm

Another app ticked off (app I am using quite a lot these days)
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:16 am

Any trick to getting FreeCAD 19 working, that version is very new?

I have been busy with BuildRoot making Linux Kernel/OS's for Pi0-1's and SiFive boards.
Making kernels has now been ticked off my list.

By the time USB boot drives are working on PI4's there will be a lot of software that just works.
Going to need a TB drive or two?

The Flatpack method might be useful for installing apps between different Linux distributions.
How many of these work on Pi4's?
https://www.flatpak.org/

If only there was a tracking system for those uSD cards that going flying and missing.
So far lost a 16Gb, a 32Gb and a 64GB :oops:
Kind of embrassing when a Desktop computer OS falls between the floor board cracks, never used to happen in the old days.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

RossDv8
Posts: 236
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:01 am

I'm still 'experimenting' with doing as much ordinary day to day stuff as possible with the Pi 4, and just had to use my Celeron powered BRIX BACE3150 with 8GB RAM and an SSD, to do some printing.
What I noticed immediately on booting the raspberry Pi again was:

How quickly the Pi boots ready to work - regardless of whether the BRIX is running Kubuntu or XFCE, the Pi is, well I guess you understand what I mean. It is faster than my laptop resumes from standby when I open the lid.

How much more quickly Chromium works, whether I open pages or access new ones. I would like to blame my bookmarks on the Brix, but I imported that bookmark file to tbe Pi, so I can't.

LibreOffice on the Pi opens to the point where I can begin typing in 6 to 7 seconds. On the Pi it is 3 to 4 seconds. (I just swapped HDMI inputs to check). I can live with 7 seconds.

The on screen fonts on the Pi 4 are incredible on the 55 inch UHD TV. On the same TV on the Brix, even using similar fonts and with anti-aliasing, they are not as crisp. Someone in Pi-Land went to a lot of trouble making the fonts readable.

I find myself spending far too much time 'enjoying' using the Pi, than just 'having to' use a computer. My firewall is a bit of a pain and I have to shut it off to print to the Brix, but honestly, lately the Pi 4 ishas proved perfectly capable of all my 'day to day' stuff including even my imagemagick processing, and actually better in some respects than my other computers at a lot of other stuff.

So much more capable than the Pi 3B+ which was almost there, but not quite. :D
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Gavinmc42
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:53 am

I am throwing stuff at Pi4's that are serious Development apps.
If they break I can rebuild the OS, so no big deal.
On a normal PC I tend to be more protective and conservative.
I am finding Pi4's are better than a Desktop because there is a lower risk of bricking and less cost involved?

Learning faster because I try more stuff?
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

RossDv8
Posts: 236
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:56 pm

I'm running mine off a Samsung EVO plus 128GB microSD card. With the price now down to AUD $35 per card I can use the card copying utility to clone my working card to the other one and swap them say weekly, which means providing I am a good boy and back up my actual work (cough, cough) I only ever risk losing whatever I was to stupid to back up, and any new programs I installed since the last time I cloned the SD.

While the non-cached read/write speeds on the microSD are a little slower than the SSD the cached speeds are almost the same. And for daily use if you are not transferring gigglebites of data at a time, it is barely an issue.

While writing this post I copied a 2.1GB file from the microSD card to the SSD (cheap eBay USB 3 to SATA cable plugged into a non-powered USB3 hub in the Pi 4 USB 3 port). It took 63 seconds.

I copied a 1GB file the other way from the SSD to the 128GB microSD, and it also took 63 seconds. So half the speed. But I have desktop computers that don;t do any better :-)

For something that almost fits in a Marlboro cigarette packet, WOW !! But now I'm wondering if I should grab a cheap and nasty microSD to use to boot into the old SSD (used to be on the Pi 3B+). The more I use the Pi daily, the less excuse I have to boot any of the other half dozen or so computers in here. It's mostly only to either print something, or to run the automatic cleaning routine Linux runs on all my inkjets at boot, particularly the dye sublimation printers...
Remember, nobody is listening to you
until you fart ...

ejolson
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:42 am

RossDv8 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:56 pm
I'm running mine off a Samsung EVO plus 128GB microSD card. With the price now down to AUD $35 per card I can use the card copying utility to clone my working card to the other one and swap them say weekly, which means providing I am a good boy and back up my actual work (cough, cough) I only ever risk losing whatever I was to stupid to back up, and any new programs I installed since the last time I cloned the SD.
Any read error while cloning would leave you with two corrupted cards. Wouldn't you need to rotate at least three cards for cloning to work as a backup?

RossDv8
Posts: 236
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:13 am

I agree - rotating three cards might prevent that, But I have a complete backup of the /home/pi directory to an SSD regularly, and if I ever kill two SDs it is a simple matter to image a new one and copy the Pi directory across from the new one. But I've been lucky over the years with computers including my Pis. If I cloned an SD, while everything seemed normal, by the time I had a card that was obviously physically faulty, the backup had been cloned before the fault was manifest.

I don;t think I can copy a physically corrupted 'card' by cloning, only the data. And if the card won;t boot, for example, that might suggest physical corruption and a need to swap to the backup card (which might have been made when the source card WAS booting). Data corruption is a different animal and it is likely to be data I haven't used in a while that I could copy corrupt over good.
However that can happen in ordinary backups even on commercial scale - which is why many of us oldies have at least a few drives with week old and month old backups on them.

So a boot corruption simply means flashing a card and copying user stuff. User data corruption is always a risk -t hat's what we hate to lose.

I hope this makes more sense than my previous reply.

EDIT:
An update a couple of weeks later. I have been so pleased with the way the Pi 4 runs most ordinary tasks that I went ahead and set up the SSD and replaced the 128GB Samsung EVO Plus microSD with a spare small Sandisk microSD as a boot disk to fire up the SSD.
Immediately, the lag/freeze problems when scrolling Chromium pages was gone and more or less everything runs as quickly or more quickly than on my Celeron Brix,

The only thing missing for day to day work is printing. The Raspberry Pi 4 is ready to work before the Brix has even finished booting. It is also faster in ALL operations than my laptops. And once it is set up properly, I don't have anything that can touch the Pi 4 for multimedia video and/or audio - except the built in Netflix app in my smart Tv (Video is as good on the TV, but Audio is far better on the Pi 4 running the Logitech speakers)

Unless I have to print something these days I rarely even bother turning the desktop systems on.

I'll be curious to see what the next iteration of the Pi brings, but for now, I'm glad I didn;t waste money on a new desktop computer, or on a 'Pi Competitor'
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until you fart ...

mob-i-l
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:31 am

Raspbian Buster (most updated) sometimes locks the keyboard and mouse and the screen freezes when I have Facebook in a tab in Chromium together with say 9 other tabs. I cannot switch to Linux console using Ctrl+Alt+F1. In order to reboot I must login from another computer and do sudo reboot. Then often it takes 10 minutes to reboot. Before I thought it had hang during reboot and pulled the plug, but I recently discovered that it reboots after a very long time (10 min).

I think that if the Facebook code is to complex for Chromium to handle it should give an error message ─ not lock the GUI and keyboard.

Alt + Fn+SysRq REISUB might work in this situation using the Raspberry Pi Keyboard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key.

I use a Raspberry Pi 4 B with 4 GB RAM of which 256 MB is GPU RAM.
Last edited by mob-i-l on Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RossDv8
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:35 pm

Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:18 am

I think that if the Facebook code is to complex for Chromium to handle it should give an error message ─ not lock the GUI and keyboard.
I think the problem with Facebook code is not Chromium itself. It is caused mostly by the amount of traffic as Facebook processes the gathering of information and advertising. Facebook looks at everything it can, and runs complex algorithms to try to match information about your posts, and the posts of everyone who is 'connected' to your Facebook account, including likes, comments and such, then uses that to try to make a few cents on each possible transaction.

This results in a LOT of online overhead, and slows browsers. These days Chromium often has an ad-blocker like ublock origin or adblock, built into it, and Facebook is always trying to find a way to bypass the latest ad blockers. This slows Chromium and most other browsers considerably, especially on a small computer like the Pi.

Google, YouTube and a lot of other sites are the same. It is amazing that as the Web has grown since I was first writing html in about 1989, and the connections to the net have gone from a few kb/s to many mb/s, we are waiting longer and longer for some web pages to load. To the extent that I have not bothered to open Facebook on any of the dozen or so computers I can see around this room, in about a month!

The problem might not be Chromium, OR the Pi. It is probably just caused by Facebook server algorithms taking too long to work across the network and some smaller computers...
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Heater
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:29 am

Facebook can bring regular laptop to a crawl.

[Mod edited out some FB bashing]

You did not state what those other 8 chrome tabs may be, modern web pages can be huge memory and processor hogs. Clearly you are loading your system too much. Don't do that and it will work much better.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

bjtheone
Posts: 381
Joined: Mon May 20, 2019 11:28 pm
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Re: Pi4 as Desktop computer

Fri Nov 15, 2019 4:03 pm

Heater wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 3:29 am
Facebook can bring regular laptop to a crawl.

[Mod edited out some FB bashing]

You did not state what those other 8 chrome tabs may be, modern web pages can be huge memory and processor hogs. Clearly you are loading your system too much. Don't do that and it will work much better.
I agree with you in concept, but in practice it has not been an issue for me. I do not user Facebook. I don't go to the website, it is not loaded as an app on any of my devices. However, I do go to lots of other websites, that auto update, with vast tracks of annoying advertising and stuff. While I do have the advertising blocked for most sites, I have sane sites whitelisted and have info sites that I actually care about what they are constantly refreshing. Pi 4 happily runs day after day with the browser open. it certainly consumes an absurd amount of ram from a programmers should program better point of view, but it does not impact the usability of the Pi. I am wondering what other things folks are running when they have performance issues. Can you point to an example of a "modern web page" other than the abomination that is Facebook, that cause issues?

My use case is chromium with spotify playing in the background, youtube videos, a couple of info sites, along with my other "always on apps" (xchat, calibre, a couple terminals, a file manager, and some open spreadsheets). It runs just fine, and when I monitor it swap is not having issues. My system typically runs with around 3 - 3.5 GB of RAM consumed.

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