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hardwaremack-orginal
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Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:07 pm

i tried this:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... des/msd.md

Code: Select all

echo program_usb_boot_mode=1 | sudo tee -a /boot/config.txt
reboot

Code: Select all

vcgencmd otp_dump | grep 17:
my result is not this: 3020000a

its this: 000008b0

in another thread someone said that USB booting is not supported in (PI. V4) yet... how can this be?

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rpdom
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:46 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:07 pm
how can this be?
The Pi4 uses a different boot loader to the earlier models. It is stored in eeprom on the board instead of part in the chip and part on the SD card. An update and instructions on how to apply it will be issued when the USB and network boot is ready.

The old program_usb_boot etc configurations have no effect on the Pi4.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:50 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:07 pm
....

in another thread someone said that USB booting is not supported in (PI. V4) yet... how can this be?
its a work-in-progress, will come second after PXE (or network) boot.
was stated here... https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... teeprom.md
have a good read and understand what is written...

when its ready it will be announced... lets be patient....
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chapas
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:39 pm

Hi,
i think my question can be accommodated here;
With all the changes on the RPi4, now we have faster SDCard and USB data transfer, which one is faster?
Which one has the fastest access times?

Just need to know where should i install the OS.

Thanks

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:21 pm

chapas wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:39 pm
Hi,
i think my question can be accommodated here;
Eh? This looks totally off topic here.
You should start a new topic...

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:23 pm

chapas wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:39 pm
Hi,
i think my question can be accommodated here;
With all the changes on the RPi4, now we have faster SDCard and USB data transfer, which one is faster?
Which one has the fastest access times?

Just need to know where should i install the OS.

Thanks
For now, install to an SD card.

For the future, keep an eye on the blog and forums for when enhanced boot modes are released. The posts will tell you how to install them. I suspect there will be a program and a shell script that install through apt/apt-get. One those are installed, it's likely that running the shell script will check for new firmware, download it and install it.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:33 pm

People should not be messing with OTP bits on the Pi4 with Pi3 instructions.

Pi4 use a different SoC and OTP bits may not be the same or do the same thing (for all we know, it could brick the Pi4). It seems like the OP's carelessness didn't do any harm, but until we have official documentation on the Pi4 OTP bits, I would caution against programming them (hopefully the current firmware doesn't even allow that).
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:23 pm
For now, install to an SD card.
And for best performance, use and "A1" rated micro SD card.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:43 am

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:07 pm
i tried this:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... des/msd.md

Code: Select all

echo program_usb_boot_mode=1 | sudo tee -a /boot/config.txt
reboot

Code: Select all

vcgencmd otp_dump | grep 17:
my result is not this: 3020000a

its this: 000008b0

in another thread someone said that USB booting is not supported in (PI. V4) yet... how can this be?
Since I look after the documents repo, I'd like to know why you followed those instructions given the bolded warning at the top says which devices they are valid for. Something needs to be clearer, just like to know what.
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HawaiianPi
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:32 am

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:07 pm
in another thread someone said that USB booting is not supported in (PI. V4) yet... how can this be?
It can be because the firmware does not support it yet. Unlike previous models, the Pi 4B has firmware in an on-board EPROM (a small, non-volatile memory module), so it can be upgraded to fix problems and support new features later. USB boot is on the todo list, but is currently not supported.

You can boot from a USB drive the old school way, by putting /boot on an SD card and / (the root filesystem) on the USB drive.

Write the latest Raspbian image to a USB drive and copy the contents of the "boot" partition to a FAT32 formatted SD card. Next you'll want to check that cmdline.txt on the SD card directs the system to load the root OS from USB (should point to the 2nd partition on the Raspbian imaged USB drive, edit if needed), and edit /etc/fstab to mount the SD card as /boot, so that kernel and firmware updates are properly applied.

Plug the USB drive and SD card into the Pi4B and power it up. You should see very brief SD card activity, then the OS should boot from USB. You may have to manually resize the second partition to fill empty space on the USB drive (last time I tried this the resize script failed if /boot and / were on separate drives).

When USB boot is officially supported you will do something like:
  • Run a system update/upgrade to install the latest kernel and firmware.
  • Copy the contents of the boot SD card to the USB drive's boot partition, so that it has the latest upgrades.
  • Edit /etc/fstab to mount the USB drive's boot partition as /boot.
  • Double-check that cmdline.txt in the USB drive's boot partition is correct (still pointing to the USB drive's second partition).
  • Shut the system down and remove the SD card.
  • Power up the system again, and it should boot from the USB drive (with no SD card).
I'm also curious why you ignored the bold text at the top of the page you linked that clearly stated it was for the Pi3 and 2Bv1.2 models. :?
USB_boot.gif
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hardwaremack-orginal
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:02 pm

thanks HawaiianPi!!
i appreciate your response sir!

considering this is now a mainstream product. not some kickstarter....
The fact that i cannot boot from the new improved usb 3.0 port with my new 200 megs a second (read) samsung fit...Makes me consider this product defective, and want to return it.

I have the 1gig P4 version, it seems MS has the 2gig version, I might return this and get the 2gig anyways... the extra gig will make it more useful to me.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating reality. booting and operating from a SD card is playing with fire.

Charles
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:25 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:02 pm
thanks HawaiianPi!!
i appreciate your response sir!

considering this is now a mainstream product. not some kickstarter....
The fact that i cannot boot from the new improved usb 3.0 port with my new 200 megs a second (read) samsung fit...Makes me consider this product defective, and want to return it.

I have the 1gig P4 version, it seems MS has the 2gig version, I might return this and get the 2gig anyways... the extra gig will make it more useful to me.

I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating reality. booting and operating from a SD card is playing with fire.

Charles
Capture.PNG

Where does it state on product page it supports MSD Boot ?

https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... 4-model-b/
Retired disgracefully.....
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:30 pm

I fail to see how putting /boot on a microsd is playing with fire, you shouldn't be writing much to /boot, and if /boot dies, it should be trivial to replace.

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Roken
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:57 pm

I can say with no doubt, /boot on MicroSD and handover to /root on USB works just fine. Not a complete USB boot, but as close as damn it.
Headless PI. OMG, someone cut it's head off. Oh, hang on. it didn't have one to start with.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:33 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:02 pm
considering this is now a mainstream product. not some kickstarter....
In some ways, that's my biggest gripe with RPF/RPT.

The only reason (from my point of view) to go Pi vs another SBC is product support and longevity. They probably sold more Pi4s the first day than most other SBCs have sold total.

Would the Pi4 rollout be more successful if delayed a month or so? I don't know. More product in the pipeline, give the 3rd parties more time to have cases and peripherals ready to go and in the channel, get USB/net booting working, no users upset they can't USB boot, etc - an argument could be made they should have waited.

On the other hand, most of the market is happy to have it to play with early.

For myself, it's nice to tinker early, but until there is a decent case and USB boot the thing is mostly useless.

The 3B+ launch also seemed a little rushed, but the post launch issues were more of the nature where there are always things that turn up after thousands are in the wild. The 4B is missing a couple of bullet points up front.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:45 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:02 pm
I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating reality. booting and operating from a SD card is playing with fire.
Really? Are you unaware of how many millions of Pi have been working entirely adequately from SD cards for the last 6years or so?
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:30 pm

jerrm wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:33 pm
hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:02 pm
considering this is now a mainstream product. not some kickstarter....
In some ways, that's my biggest gripe with RPF/RPT.

The only reason (from my point of view) to go Pi vs another SBC is product support and longevity. They probably sold more Pi4s the first day than most other SBCs have sold total.

Would the Pi4 rollout be more successful if delayed a month or so? I don't know. More product in the pipeline, give the 3rd parties more time to have cases and peripherals ready to go and in the channel, get USB/net booting working, no users upset they can't USB boot, etc - an argument could be made they should have waited.

On the other hand, most of the market is happy to have it to play with early.

For myself, it's nice to tinker early, but until there is a decent case and USB boot the thing is mostly useless.

The 3B+ launch also seemed a little rushed, but the post launch issues were more of the nature where there are always things that turn up after thousands are in the wild. The 4B is missing a couple of bullet points up front.
The release had already been delayed. You can keep delaying and delaying, getting every last thing perfect. And then you find you have never released anything, or you have missed a market opportunity

These sorts of launches need to be planned months in advance, and unfortunately things happen at the last minute.

As for complaining about USB boot making the product useless, well, sorry, but it's a minor use case. The vast majority of people use SD cards, which work absolutely fine (playing with fire? Really? Probably 20M Pi's out there using SD cards right now). If we had delayed the months required to get USB boot working, that's months of sales missed for all those people who don't give a damn about USB boot. Most people, right now, will be using the Pi4 and be happy with it. Even people who want 'USB boot' can simple use a boot based SD card that then moves boot to the USB. Easy to set up, and exactly how everything up to the Pi3B worked.

We are making over 15k a day, and selling every single one of them. The launch could probably not have gone any better! And because its all upgradeable, the product will get even better with time, adding more and more use lesser used cases.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:55 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:02 pm
... just stating reality. booting and operating from a SD card is playing with fire.
timrowledge wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:45 pm
Really? Are you unaware of how many millions of Pi have been working entirely adequately from SD cards for the last 6years or so?
Agreed, that statement was complete nonsense.

If you buy good, brand name SD cards from reputable companies they are very reliable, and A1 rated cards are very fast. If you need to write loads of data there are high endurance cards, and even industrial rated cards (choose the right tool for the job).

Cheap no-name cards can work well in some cases, but it's a crapshoot.

And, of course you should buy from a reputable shop with a good return policy if you are purchasing larger capacity cards, because fakes are so rampant, especially on eBay, Alibaba and the like (although eBay has buyer protection, so you usually can get your money back).

I've been running a Minecraft SMP multiplayer server on a Pi 3B+ from a SanDisk Ultra Plus 64GB micro SD card since 2017, and it's still running fine. The server auto-saves the world every 3 minutes and I run weekly backups and monthly OS upgrades. Lots of writes and no trouble. I had a torrent server running for around a year from a micro SD card as well with no trouble (upgraded to SSD because I needed more room and SSD was cheaper).

When booting from SD card and running the OS from a USB drive, the /boot partition is mostly read-only because it's only written to during kernel and firmware updates, so it should be extremely reliable.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:57 pm

jerrm wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:33 pm
.. until there is a decent case and USB boot the thing is mostly useless.
So put your RPi4B back in its box, put the box at the back of a drawer and tell yourself that you only dreamt that a new RPI model was launched on 24 June 2019. When the announcement is made that USB boot is available on RPI4B you can open your drawer and be very happy that you managed to get your hands on a RPi4B that does what you want within minutes of it being available to you. You'll have got it even more quickly than if the RPi people had delayed the launch.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:09 pm

jerrm wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:33 pm
... until there is a decent case and USB boot the thing is mostly useless.
Shame there are people like this who actually have them and so many who could use them that can't get them.

What is a "decent case" and there are options to run the OS from a USB drive.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:41 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:02 pm
considering this is now a mainstream product. not some kickstarter....
The fact that i cannot boot from the new improved usb 3.0 port with my new 200 megs a second (read) samsung fit...Makes me consider this product defective, and want to return it.
Some of us waited--patiently--for over a year (IIRC, I'd have to look at the beta test thread for exact dates) for USB boot to be released in the first place. I dare say the Pi4B will get the feature in far less time than that.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:50 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:30 pm
The release had already been delayed. You can keep delaying and delaying, getting every last thing perfect. And then you find you have never released anything, or you have missed a market opportunity
I never said it should have been delayed further - stating most folks are glad to have it.
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:30 pm
As for complaining about USB boot making the product useless, well, sorry, but it's a minor use case. The vast majority of people use SD cards, which work absolutely fine (playing with fire? Really? Probably 20M Pi's out there using SD cards right now).
I'm not really complaining, just stating a fact. I knew USB was broken when I bought it. The "playing with fire" was NOT my quote.
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:30 pm
If we had delayed the months required to get USB boot working
I hope that is an exaggeration. USB boot is still months away?
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:30 pm
Even people who want 'USB boot' can simple use a boot based SD card that then moves boot to the USB. Easy to set up, and exactly how everything up to the Pi3B worked.
Well aware of boot options, but our standard config is USB. I'm not going to deploy a few odd units with the hybrid boot process. We didn't come along until the Pi3 for any serious use, so Pi 1/2 standards don't matter.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:57 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:09 pm
What is a "decent case"
A metal unit with decent cooling. FLIRC is our standard case, there is another aluminum case with a fan we've used as well.

Can you honestly say you would be comfortable with the Pi4 in the official case under moderate to heavy load placed out of sight in a wiring closet?

jmhalder
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Tue Jul 02, 2019 1:42 am

FLIRC cases are coming out in ~3 weeks. I've already preordered 2. USB boot will be nice, I'm excited for it, however booting from SD and mounting a USB drive as / is totally fine right now.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:36 am

I'm now using this Pi4B1 as a desktop.
Starting installing lots of stuff and my 32GB uSD filled up in 4 days.
The "trouble" with the 4 is lots of games and big apps now work quite well.

As a desktop replacement we now need to consider massive storage as the defining difference.
Booting from uSD and everything else on a USB drive or network drive?
No big deal and those that whinge about it may have not gone through months/years of waiting for stuff to work on the older Pi's.

As a Desktop with big fast storage multiboot OS's are now something to think about.
So my wish is USB booting with a OS choice but no hurry, I still need to wait for some more 4B4's to make it down here.
And to make, find a nice case with SSD/2.5""drive space and fan assisted cooling.

As a desktop a new 4B4 box won't move about like my 3B+'s in their official cases.
Going to be interesting to see what the PC case mods guys get up to with these Pi4's.
That it may boot from a uSD card for 6 month is not the big issue some are making out.
But that is just my use case, some might want to do things differently.

First time posters who say the Pi4 is rubbish because it cannot boot from USB on release?
I have to question why they say that.

The hardware is there to do it, just the software needs updating.
Old timers know about software taking time, it was ages for DOS3.3 and then Win98 to show up.
Software takes ?? amount of time.

Software guys know it is ready only when it works, if some features don't work yet that can be fixed later.
"Release early, release often" is an Agile? quote.
That is better than not releasing at all.
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HawaiianPi
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:49 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:36 am
And to make, find a nice case with SSD/2.5""drive space and fan assisted cooling.
I'll just be swapping my Pi3 out of this one (until my Flirc arrives). Nice thing about those 2 layer acrylic cases is they're pretty universal, and they don't trap in heat.

First time posters who say the Pi4 is rubbish because it cannot boot from USB on release?
I have to question why they say that.
I have to question why they bought one...
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