chithanh
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:48 am

b3lt3r wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:38 pm
USB-C and mini HDMI
Note that the Raspberry Pi 4 uses Micro HDMI not Mini HDMI. Mini HDMI was used in the Pi Zero (and I found that questionable too over e.g. MHL, but as an extreme low-cost device used mostly in fixed installations it did not bother me much).
aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:04 pm
OMG!
Should I start to cry because I have a box full of composite/VGA and DVI cables (not to mention SCART) and can no longer use them? No, I don't!
[...]
Maybe I should also blaim someone for inventing DECT standard for cordless phones ... because I have tons of RJ'can't remeber which standard it is ' cables as well
I mentioned in a previous post already that my goal is not to connect any old trash to the Pi with existing cables without using an adapter.
I was actually totally fine with no VGA output on the PI when it launched in 2012, because VGA was the past and HDMI was the future. If you want to continue using legacy peripherals, then having to buy adapters to connect them to modern computers is expected.

The situation with Micro HDMI however is different. Micro HDMI is not the future, it wasn't very common even in its heyday, and it is now nearly gone from new computers. I think you can almost count on one hand the laptops or tablets with Micro HDMI released in 2019.

jamesh
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:34 am

chithanh wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:48 am
b3lt3r wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:38 pm
USB-C and mini HDMI
Note that the Raspberry Pi 4 uses Micro HDMI not Mini HDMI. Mini HDMI was used in the Pi Zero (and I found that questionable too over e.g. MHL, but as an extreme low-cost device used mostly in fixed installations it did not bother me much).
aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:04 pm
OMG!
Should I start to cry because I have a box full of composite/VGA and DVI cables (not to mention SCART) and can no longer use them? No, I don't!
[...]
Maybe I should also blaim someone for inventing DECT standard for cordless phones ... because I have tons of RJ'can't remeber which standard it is ' cables as well
I mentioned in a previous post already that my goal is not to connect any old trash to the Pi with existing cables without using an adapter.
I was actually totally fine with no VGA output on the PI when it launched in 2012, because VGA was the past and HDMI was the future. If you want to continue using legacy peripherals, then having to buy adapters to connect them to modern computers is expected.

The situation with Micro HDMI however is different. Micro HDMI is not the future, it wasn't very common even in its heyday, and it is now nearly gone from new computers. I think you can almost count on one hand the laptops or tablets with Micro HDMI released in 2019.
On the other hand, it's more common on phones and camcorders which are too small for full size HDMI.
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PCycle
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:01 am

I was a big fan of the raspberry pi and introduced to it to a few people who bought it as well and none of us understand why micro HDMI makes sense. I completely agree with the OP. In my opinion the solution is simple simple simple. Make a variant that just has 1 full size HDMI with 4k and leave off the second monitor connection completely. I would buy that version in a heartbeat, but micro HDMI is a deal breaker. The whole appeal of the Pi was a small computer with a HDMI port. Micro HDMI might as well be a totally different standard because you can bring it wherever you go with certainty.

Ask yourself why doesn't a Roku or fire stick or Chromecast try the micro HDMI? As for a second monitor, I don't see the need at all. If there is a market for that, I understand, but the market is not me, no thanks. I use it as the front end for my media server and an emulation retro game unit and I'm looking to built a new type of portable media PC with some built in hard drive but in the size and form factor of a Rubik's cube and it would be useless with micro HDMI. My laptop has that connection and it is a nightmare. I can't bring it anywhere or hook it up anywhere.

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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:26 pm

PCycle wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:01 am
micro HDMI is a deal breaker.
It's not really. One can either use an adapter or micro-HDMI to full-size cable. In the UK even Tesco supermarkets sell those cables on the High Street though far from cheap; £24.

I can't foresee the Foundation building a 4B version with a single full-size HDMI cable just because some people don't like the micro-HDMI choice.

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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:36 pm

PCycle wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:01 am
...micro HDMI is a deal breaker...
Hardly. Only if you are prepared to miss out on all the Pi fun for the sake of a 3 dollar adapter.

It's OK, I will buy the Pi that you are not going to :)
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jamesh
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:36 pm

PCycle wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:01 am
I was a big fan of the raspberry pi and introduced to it to a few people who bought it as well and none of us understand why micro HDMI makes sense. I completely agree with the OP. In my opinion the solution is simple simple simple. Make a variant that just has 1 full size HDMI with 4k and leave off the second monitor connection completely. I would buy that version in a heartbeat, but micro HDMI is a deal breaker. The whole appeal of the Pi was a small computer with a HDMI port. Micro HDMI might as well be a totally different standard because you can bring it wherever you go with certainty.

Ask yourself why doesn't a Roku or fire stick or Chromecast try the micro HDMI? As for a second monitor, I don't see the need at all. If there is a market for that, I understand, but the market is not me, no thanks. I use it as the front end for my media server and an emulation retro game unit and I'm looking to built a new type of portable media PC with some built in hard drive but in the size and form factor of a Rubik's cube and it would be useless with micro HDMI. My laptop has that connection and it is a nightmare. I can't bring it anywhere or hook it up anywhere.
Really? A first post rant?

You have fallen in to the same trap that everyone else commenting on this has fallen into. You think no-one wants dual HDMI because all you can think about is your own use case. You could not be more wrong wrong wrong. The demand for dual HDMI is HUGE. Not necessarily at home (although lots of people do use it at home) but in industry it's massive.

As for uHDMI being a deal breaker, this is the worst excuse for not buying a Pi ever. It just takes an adapter or a cable to plug it in. $1 for an adapter, bit more for an entire cable. Yes, an tiny tiny tiny bit of inconvenience. But to use that as a reason not to get 4k, gig ethernet, USB3, up to 4GB RAM, faster CPU, faster GPU etc? Weird.

As for making a single full size port Pi4B, I doubt that will happen. Simple not worth the R&D time, the stocking costs and the additional work involved in selling another model.
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:00 pm

PCycle wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:01 am
I was a big fan of the raspberry pi and introduced to it to a few people who bought it as well and none of us understand why micro HDMI makes sense. I completely agree with the OP. In my opinion the solution is simple simple simple. Make a variant that just has 1 full size HDMI with 4k and leave off the second monitor connection completely. I would buy that version in a heartbeat, but micro HDMI is a deal breaker. The whole appeal of the Pi was a small computer with a HDMI port. Micro HDMI might as well be a totally different standard because you can bring it wherever you go with certainty.

Ask yourself why doesn't a Roku or fire stick or Chromecast try the micro HDMI? As for a second monitor, I don't see the need at all. If there is a market for that, I understand, but the market is not me, no thanks. I use it as the front end for my media server and an emulation retro game unit and I'm looking to built a new type of portable media PC with some built in hard drive but in the size and form factor of a Rubik's cube and it would be useless with micro HDMI. My laptop has that connection and it is a nightmare. I can't bring it anywhere or hook it up anywhere.
Would you also refuse to use a Pi0 or Pi0W because those boards have a miniHDMI connector (which, so far as I can tell, is a much rarer beast)?

While I, personally, haven't set a Pi4B up with dual monitors yet, I can see why people would. Since the RPF has launched a reasonably inexpensive microHDMI to HDMI cable, every monitor I own (and there are a lot of them) is--at most--an HDMI to DVI adapter away from working with a Pi4B. To that end, I started out by ordering half a dozen such adapters. Specifically, this one: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2029

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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:02 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:36 pm
As for making a single full size port Pi4B, I doubt that will happen. Simple not worth the R&D time, the stocking costs and the additional work involved in selling another model.
I would imagine that Element 14, through their custom Pi program, would be quite willing to do so...provided the person wanting a board set up that way can afford it...

croft
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:11 pm

hi
would jamesh please name where i can get a adaptor for $1.00 in the uk some imported ones do not work

tks

large hdml is best

Technocolour
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:20 pm

I suspect it's an euphemism for cheap. (That said, taobau, but then you need to import it of course)

Regards, a big fan of dual monitor outputs that just uses micro to full-size cables with zero hassle.

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PeterO
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:38 pm

croft wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:11 pm
hi
would jamesh please name where i can get a adaptor for $1.00 in the uk some imported ones do not work
tks
large hdml is best
Give it a rest.... This is utterly pointless. Just buy the official micro to full size HDMI cable and be done with it....
Oh, and by the way....
Small hdmi is best !
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drgeoff
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:44 pm

Would jamesh please lock this topic and the poll request.

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scruss
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 7:26 pm

The Beaglebone Black has used micro HDMI since 2013. It was a pretty difficult cable to get at the time. Nowadays, though, cheap as chips.
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:45 pm

The "official" micro HDMI able is only £5 and works fine.
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:17 pm

I have been using the Pi4 with uHDMI with two monitors. Works great and I hope it stays that way for a few years. True, the local store doesn't stock the exact cable I needed for my mini HDMI monitor, but, they also do not stock Raspberry Pi's.... :shock:

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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:27 pm

I think the first part of the question posed in the subject line has been well and truly answered. As for the second part, the only likely future alternative will be if some other connection achieves market saturation.

jamesh
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:11 pm

croft wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 6:11 pm
hi
would jamesh please name where i can get a adaptor for $1.00 in the uk some imported ones do not work

tks

large hdml is best
I bought a bag of 5 from eBay. Came from China, was less than £5 delivered.
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:25 pm

Good gods.

Do they all do 4kp60 reliably? I mean, I expect they will, because these people have got stunningly good at manufacturing this sort of thing, but it still staggers me that you can buy a bag of five and get it delivered from China for more or less the same price it costs to send anything marginally bigger than a single sheet of A4 to next door via Royal Mail...

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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:36 pm

dickon wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:25 pm
it still staggers me that you can buy a bag of five and get it delivered from China for more or less the same price it costs to send anything marginally bigger than a single sheet of A4 to next door via Royal Mail...
AIUI, that's because International Postal Union rules mean that Royal Mail bears the delivery cost in the UK with no contribution from China.
Which also explains why faulty/not as advertised goods from China are refunded without requiring return -- it's just not worth the postage cost.
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:42 pm

Fascinating. I had no idea.

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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:13 am

davidcoton wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:36 pm
dickon wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:25 pm
it still staggers me that you can buy a bag of five and get it delivered from China for more or less the same price it costs to send anything marginally bigger than a single sheet of A4 to next door via Royal Mail...
AIUI, that's because International Postal Union rules mean that Royal Mail bears the delivery cost in the UK with no contribution from China.
Which also explains why faulty/not as advertised goods from China are refunded without requiring return -- it's just not worth the postage cost.
That, plus China gets favorable IPO rates for being a "developing country" and the Chinese government subsidizes shipping on exported goods.

tului
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:22 am

I buy a Powerball ticket once a month. When I win 200 million I'll pay the Pi Foundation to make a full HDMI Pi

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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:28 am

tului wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:22 am
I buy a Powerball ticket once a month. When I win 200 million I'll pay the Pi Foundation to make a full HDMI Pi
I doubt they'd take the money to do it....but Element 14 would and it probably wouldn't cost you more than $200K to $300K. (At a random guess.)

hippy
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:07 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:28 am
tului wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:22 am
I buy a Powerball ticket once a month. When I win 200 million I'll pay the Pi Foundation to make a full HDMI Pi
I doubt they'd take the money to do it....but Element 14 would and it probably wouldn't cost you more than $200K to $300K. (At a random guess.)
I'd also guess that figure. That's the money needed up-front, but it should be totally zero-cost once the boards are sold.

One doesn't need to win the lottery to do it; one only needs to find someone willing to lend that amount or someone who can be convinced to do it themselves. Someone like Pi Top or Kano might be convinced that a Pi 4B with full-size HDMI is a sensible option. Kano already use the Farnell customisation programme to make their own variants of the Pi.

jamesh
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Re: Reasoning behind dual Micro HDMI, and potential future alternatives?

Tue Feb 11, 2020 10:15 am

$200k vs $1 for an adapter....you would need to sell about 1M Pi4/BigHDMI boards to even think about breaking even. Think the market is that desperate?

Think people are getting a little too picking about their connectors.
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