Musketeer
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How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:55 pm

Older generations had some crackling?
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:13 pm

Depend how old I suppose but the previous generation did not...
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pagenotfound
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:23 pm

It's exactly the same as in the Pi 3 (except it now has its own dedicated PWM which normally shouldn't make a difference). If you use the new driver, which has been available for some time now, there shouldn't be any crackling.

In config.txt :

below

Code: Select all

dtparam=audio=on
add

Code: Select all

audio_pwm_mode=2

jamesh
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:26 pm

It's fine. On the desktop just right click the speaker icon and select analog.
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 1:50 pm

Thats some pretty HOT news! :twisted:
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:18 am

i have a pi 3B that i use on a projector and audio goes to church sound system.

using the 3.5mm audio out, the sound was noisy and distorted, with horrible quality.

tried the "pwm" setting, didn't changed much,

so in the end, i got a cheap USB audio adapter, soldered directly on the board USB pins, and routed the audio out wiring to the original 3.5mm pins on the pi board (cutting the original PCB traces)

now i have great quality audio, using the built-in connector. but i lose a USB port in the process :(

if the pi 4 does not have a dedicated audio IC, i believe the analog audio quality is the same as previous generations.

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:44 am

malow wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:18 am
i have a pi 3B that i use on a projector and audio goes to church sound system.

using the 3.5mm audio out, the sound was noisy and distorted, with horrible quality.

tried the "pwm" setting, didn't changed much,

so in the end, i got a cheap USB audio adapter, soldered directly on the board USB pins, and routed the audio out wiring to the original 3.5mm pins on the pi board (cutting the original PCB traces)

now i have great quality audio, using the built-in connector. but i lose a USB port in the process :(

if the pi 4 does not have a dedicated audio IC, i believe the analog audio quality is the same as previous generations.
Were you using the latest distribution? I was using the analog out on the Pi4 the other day with headphones watching youtube and it was fine.
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:55 am

malow wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:18 am
i have a pi 3B that i use on a projector and audio goes to church sound system.

using the 3.5mm audio out, the sound was noisy and distorted, with horrible quality.

tried the "pwm" setting, didn't changed much,

so in the end, i got a cheap USB audio adapter, soldered directly on the board USB pins, and routed the audio out wiring to the original 3.5mm pins on the pi board (cutting the original PCB traces)

now i have great quality audio, using the built-in connector. but i lose a USB port in the process :(

if the pi 4 does not have a dedicated audio IC, i believe the analog audio quality is the same as previous generations.
Seems like output level of your Pi was too high
or input gain of the church sound system was too high
or input impedance of the church sound system was too low
or there was interference from another source

With the old driver, the Pi's sound had problems, but horrible distortion wasn't one of them. With the new driver, you really have to listen for problems to hear any.

Note to RPF folks: that doesn't mean I would be disappointed if a future Pi had a real DAC and higher output level and so on. Higher level is useful for higher quality headphones which tend to have high impedance and/or low sensitivity. Likewise low output impedance can save the day when you have to use low impedance sinks, including some El Cheapo headphones.

I still can't believe that an SOC made for multimedia applications doesn't have all that in the first place.
Last edited by pagenotfound on Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:10 am

pagenotfound wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:55 am
malow wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:18 am
i have a pi 3B that i use on a projector and audio goes to church sound system.

using the 3.5mm audio out, the sound was noisy and distorted, with horrible quality.

tried the "pwm" setting, didn't changed much,

so in the end, i got a cheap USB audio adapter, soldered directly on the board USB pins, and routed the audio out wiring to the original 3.5mm pins on the pi board (cutting the original PCB traces)

now i have great quality audio, using the built-in connector. but i lose a USB port in the process :(

if the pi 4 does not have a dedicated audio IC, i believe the analog audio quality is the same as previous generations.
Seems like output level of your Pi was too high
or input gain of the church sound system was too high
or input impedance of the church sound system was too low
or there was interference from another source

With the old driver, the Pi's sound had problems, but horrible distortion wasn't one of them. With the new driver, you really have to listen for problems to hear any.

Note to RPF folks: that doesn't mean I would be disappointed if a future Pi had a real DAC and higher output level and so on. I still can't believe that an SOC made for multimedia applications doesn't have all that in the first place.
Because the original multimedia requirements were for the best quality over the HDMI connector.
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:25 am

jamesh wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:10 am
pagenotfound wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:55 am
malow wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:18 am
i have a pi 3B that i use on a projector and audio goes to church sound system.

using the 3.5mm audio out, the sound was noisy and distorted, with horrible quality.

tried the "pwm" setting, didn't changed much,

so in the end, i got a cheap USB audio adapter, soldered directly on the board USB pins, and routed the audio out wiring to the original 3.5mm pins on the pi board (cutting the original PCB traces)

now i have great quality audio, using the built-in connector. but i lose a USB port in the process :(

if the pi 4 does not have a dedicated audio IC, i believe the analog audio quality is the same as previous generations.
Seems like output level of your Pi was too high
or input gain of the church sound system was too high
or input impedance of the church sound system was too low
or there was interference from another source

With the old driver, the Pi's sound had problems, but horrible distortion wasn't one of them. With the new driver, you really have to listen for problems to hear any.

Note to RPF folks: that doesn't mean I would be disappointed if a future Pi had a real DAC and higher output level and so on. I still can't believe that an SOC made for multimedia applications doesn't have all that in the first place.
Because the original multimedia requirements were for the best quality over the HDMI connector.
OK, makes sense. I'm using a computer monitor without built in speakers though and I think others do, too. HDMI to audio adapters cost more than a Pi and can be tricky. Sooo maybe you can take this into consideration?

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:06 am

pagenotfound wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:25 am
jamesh wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:10 am
pagenotfound wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:55 am

Seems like output level of your Pi was too high
or input gain of the church sound system was too high
or input impedance of the church sound system was too low
or there was interference from another source

With the old driver, the Pi's sound had problems, but horrible distortion wasn't one of them. With the new driver, you really have to listen for problems to hear any.

Note to RPF folks: that doesn't mean I would be disappointed if a future Pi had a real DAC and higher output level and so on. I still can't believe that an SOC made for multimedia applications doesn't have all that in the first place.
Because the original multimedia requirements were for the best quality over the HDMI connector.
OK, makes sense. I'm using a computer monitor without built in speakers though and I think others do, too. HDMI to audio adapters cost more than a Pi and can be tricky. Sooo maybe you can take this into consideration?
How? The SoC is down to Broadcom, and analog audio is not really a thing they would be interested in. So would need to be additional stuff on the board itself, which is already full. There's also the cost implication - its a relatively small number of people that need higher quality analog than is already provided, and the cost of the circuitry would be there for ALL customers. Although really it would just mean less margin on the board as we would be reluctant to pass on the costs. IMO, this higher quality analog is something that is well served using third party HATS, that way, only the people who want it pay for it.
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:26 am

this may work -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/LiNKFOR-Extrac ... B071HN68RF and probably cheaper from china

edit
like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32387127234.html

no idea if any work
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:42 am

The PI4, like all previous PI's has some GPIO pins dedicated to a high quality serial audio interface called I2S, this offers even better sound quality than HDMI, and only needs a simple CODEX chip to convert to stereo audio.
Various HATs exist that offer this function, an they will work with a PI4.
I2S can also be used for audio INPUT.

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:04 pm

RaTTuS wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:26 am
this may work -
https://www.amazon.co.uk/LiNKFOR-Extrac ... B071HN68RF and probably cheaper from china

edit
like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32387127234.html

no idea if any work
no headphones out, it seems

Doesn't do 4K

cable not included

recommended power supply not included

not compatible with some devices, no word about RPi. I looked into these adapters and as I said, they can be tricky and are ultimately quite expensive.

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:01 am

I don't think it would be worth a high quality audio out unless it also came with a decent quality audio in.

As it is you can just use a cheap USB adapter.
I haven't tried it but this would almost certainly work: Amazon: Plugable USB Audio Adapter with 3.5mm Speaker/Headphone and Microphone Jacks (Black Aluminum; C-Media HS 100B Chip; Compatible with Windows, Mac, and Linux

energyi
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:15 am

Previously wrote: Audio output from 4B is excellent.

That was running FLACs with VLC.

However, that was on a 1 GB RAM. With a 4 GB RAM rpi 4B the audio output is bad. Gaps, skips. Don't know why it was different, microSD card and USB 3.0 thumb-drive and hard drive is exactly the same. You would think the 4 GB RAM would be better, or at least the same.
Last edited by energyi on Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:11 pm

i tried with earbuds (around 16~32 ohms), xiaomi bluetooth speaker (that have line in) my pc sound system, and with a directbox audio isolation transformer (600:600 ohms)

the audio at lower volumes was more "noisier" than at high volumes

sound mixer on the church is around 250k input impedance.

but again, no device got me a decent audio. So, a usb audio adapter fixed all. i can't have a device that send good quality audio "depending on the aspects of where is connected", and as the usb audio works everywhere (including with a transformer and 50+ meter cables) no distortion at any volume, no background noise.

i don't mind using the usb audio, but is sad to lose a USB. also, never got any problem with it. works rock-solid for over a year i believe.

i tested with the current raspbian at the time. didn't test after, as i already cut the traces to the board audio source, and my pi is heavily modded and all glued in a case :?

i will get a pi4 when available in brazil

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:07 pm

If you really are concerned about loosing the USB port (which I suppose most people would not mind), then why not just use a I2S DAC HAT which is what most people interested in high quality audio use anyway? They are not that expensive and are way better than these cheap USB things

malow
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Fri Jun 28, 2019 1:36 am

tpylkko wrote: If you really are concerned about loosing the USB port (which I suppose most people would not mind), then why not just use a I2S DAC HAT which is what most people interested in high quality audio use anyway? They are not that expensive and are way better than these cheap USB things
I'm in Brazil, there is no I2S DAC readly available. Importing makes everything uber-expensive, more than i paid for the pi itself (think what you pay and multiply by 8 or 10).

But the USB audio adapter is sold everywhere, is very cheap and works great. also, minimum space used. So, it's fine like this.

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:41 am

FWIW, setting the audio out to headphones (with amixer, according to docs) gets me completely crackly and broken audio with the latest firmware on Pi 4, plus audio fails to get routed to headphones. The crackly audio comes from the HDMI display. And this is even persists across reboots because ALSA settings are saved...

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:52 am

lb wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:41 am
FWIW, setting the audio out to headphones (with amixer, according to docs) gets me completely crackly and broken audio with the latest firmware on Pi 4, plus audio fails to get routed to headphones. The crackly audio comes from the HDMI display. And this is even persists across reboots because ALSA settings are saved...
Odd, I was using hdmi with headphones on analogue port and it sounded fine when watching YouTube stuff.
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lb
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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:17 am

Never mind. PEBKAC. Looks like PulseAudio has problems on Buster though.

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Re: How is 3.5 mm analog audio out on PI4?

Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:04 am

Found a I2S UDA1334A DAC to sell in Brazil at reasonable price. At least now i have a choice! 8-)

Apparently works fine with pi.

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