KarlJo
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RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:05 pm

Are the ARMv8 Crypto Extensions / AES instructions enabled on the RPi4?

jamesh
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:11 pm

KarlJo wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:05 pm
Are the ARMv8 Crypto Extensions / AES instructions enabled on the RPi4?
Not as far as I can ascertain.
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jmandawg
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:25 am

This is a HUGE disappointment. :(

dolphs
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:26 pm

Could this be verified please as both RockPi4 (RockChip 3399) and OrangePi (H6) do have AES enabled. Would be such a pity if RPi4 does not have this enabled, which would "degrade" it to a nice kodi box but not for eg VPN ...

mic_s
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:39 pm

As James Hughes pointed out elsewere : "No, AES extension are not present in the SoC"

techskies11
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:59 pm

Google has a software based encryption that might be useful it’s called google Adiantum

john_alan
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 am

These crypto extensions are essential in this day and age.

If the next Pi doesn't exhibit them, it will fail.

jdb
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:12 am

john_alan wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 am
These crypto extensions are essential in this day and age.

If the next Pi doesn't exhibit them, it will fail.
[citation needed]
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

cleverca22
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:17 am

a few other users have found that the gigabit ethernet is heavily crippled by software TLS not being able to keep up

but i only see it as being a problem for the small number of people with gigabit internet speeds, anything on lan likely wont have as much crypto on it

NimbUx
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:04 am

Just curious : are the crypto-instructions not present on the silicon, or are they disabled on the Pis for whatever reason (compliance with export rules, licensing, whatever) ?

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PeterO
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:15 am

jmandawg wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:25 am
This is a HUGE disappointment. :(
This is of no consequence !

PeterO
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timg236
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:19 am

NimbUx wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:04 am
Just curious : are the crypto-instructions not present on the silicon, or are they disabled on the Pis for whatever reason (compliance with export rules, licensing, whatever) ?
They are not present on the silicon.

jdb
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 am

cleverca22 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:17 am
a few other users have found that the gigabit ethernet is heavily crippled by software TLS not being able to keep up

but i only see it as being a problem for the small number of people with gigabit internet speeds, anything on lan likely wont have as much crypto on it
Recently we enabled NEON during compilation for openssl libraries - so scp/ssh is now a lot faster on Pi >=2. Are there any other packages that would benefit?
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

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rpdom
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:39 am

jdb wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 am
cleverca22 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:17 am
a few other users have found that the gigabit ethernet is heavily crippled by software TLS not being able to keep up

but i only see it as being a problem for the small number of people with gigabit internet speeds, anything on lan likely wont have as much crypto on it
Recently we enabled NEON during compilation for openssl libraries - so scp/ssh is now a lot faster on Pi >=2. Are there any other packages that would benefit?
Thanks for the info. I might have to move my VPN gateway to a newer Pi. It currently runs on a 1B+.
Unreadable squiggle

cleverca22
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:43 pm

rpdom wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:39 am
jdb wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 am
Recently we enabled NEON during compilation for openssl libraries - so scp/ssh is now a lot faster on Pi >=2. Are there any other packages that would benefit?
Thanks for the info. I might have to move my VPN gateway to a newer Pi. It currently runs on a 1B+.
ive heard that rpi2 and up has neon extensions

W. H. Heydt
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:51 pm

john_alan wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 am
If the next Pi doesn't exhibit them, it will fail.
"Prediction is hard to do, especially about the future" --Neils Bohr.

22over7
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:46 am

jdb wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 am
Recently we enabled NEON during compilation for openssl libraries - so scp/ssh is now a lot faster on Pi >=2. Are there any other packages that would benefit?
When I first got my Pi4 I had to build gmp (gnu multiprecision package) for my C programs. I thought gcc would automatically makes use of NEON, but based on your post perhaps that's not the case. How would one go about enabling NEON on gcc (I'm using the default gcc, running 32 bit Raspberry OS).

Thanks!

cleverca22
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:51 am

22over7 wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:46 am
jdb wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:28 am
Recently we enabled NEON during compilation for openssl libraries - so scp/ssh is now a lot faster on Pi >=2. Are there any other packages that would benefit?
When I first got my Pi4 I had to build gmp (gnu multiprecision package) for my C programs. I thought gcc would automatically makes use of NEON, but based on your post perhaps that's not the case. How would one go about enabling NEON on gcc (I'm using the default gcc, running 32 bit Raspberry OS).

Thanks!
the gcc shipped with raspbian is configured to only use features present on an rpi1/rpi0, so you can always go backwards without any problems or need to recompile
that has a side-effect of also making it run slower on more recent models
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=280934 is an example of somebody trying to build with neon (showing the args you need) but also running into issues, because gcc is told to use armv6 by default

john_alan
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:14 am

jdb wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:12 am
john_alan wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 am
These crypto extensions are essential in this day and age.

If the next Pi doesn't exhibit them, it will fail.
[citation needed]
That’s fair. I guess I won’t buy one and neither will anyone else I know that understands the significance of hardware cryptographic instructions.


I’m not sure your level of experience, but cryptography isn’t just used in Bitcoin. It’s ubiquitous and pervasive throughout all modern software engineering.


From bloom filters to HTTPS to regulatory requirements.

I suppose if the Pi is just a toy for tinkerers it doesn’t matter.

I kind of hope the decision to not include the instructions was predicated on ignorance. If it was consciously taken, it was stupid.

john_alan
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:15 am

cleverca22 wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 8:17 am
a few other users have found that the gigabit ethernet is heavily crippled by software TLS not being able to keep up

but i only see it as being a problem for the small number of people with gigabit internet speeds, anything on lan likely wont have as much crypto on it
The stuff I work on is crippled daily.

It’s such a pity.

john_alan
Posts: 44
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:16 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:51 pm
john_alan wrote:
Thu Jul 30, 2020 7:56 am
If the next Pi doesn't exhibit them, it will fail.
"Prediction is hard to do, especially about the future" --Neils Bohr.
Cool quote you seem pretty smart.

Not sure if you’ve noticed how important and fundamental cryptography is.

jamesh
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:18 am

Toy for tinkerers....tee hee, that's funny right there.
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jahboater
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:56 am

john_alan wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:14 am
I’m not sure your level of experience, but cryptography isn’t just used in Bitcoin. It’s ubiquitous and pervasive throughout all modern software engineering.
I wonder what percentage of the 32 million+ happy users are even aware that the crypto extension is missing?

It is slightly surprising because the Pi CPU's in the past have typically had the "optional" ARM features turned on. Maybe the crypto extension would have added too much to the cost, and since the Pi4 appears to work perfectly well without it; a reasonable design trade-off.

For interest, the Pi4 does have the CRC extension and NEON SIMD of course.
Pi4 8GB running PIOS64 Lite

jamesh
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:30 am

jahboater wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:56 am
john_alan wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:14 am
I’m not sure your level of experience, but cryptography isn’t just used in Bitcoin. It’s ubiquitous and pervasive throughout all modern software engineering.
I wonder what percentage of the 32 million+ happy users are even aware that the crypto extension is missing?
I think it's three.

(people, not percentage)
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed.
I've been saying "Mucho" to my Spanish friend a lot more lately. It means a lot to him.

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rpdom
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Re: RPi4 BCM2711 and ARMv8 Crypto Extensions?

Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:44 am

I do love it when random people turn up and start predicting that the Pi doesn't stand a chance of surviving with $random_feature.

I love it even more when they are inevitably proved wrong.

They think they're clever.

There's been a lot of very clever people working on the Pi.

:lol:
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