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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:19 pm
by jamesh
PeterO wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:58 pm
As an experiment I've installed gnome evolution (https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution) on my Pi4 and I've restored the 3.5Gb of archive of emails etc from my main desktop machine. evolutoin is certainly not a lightweight application !

While it might not be quite as snappy on a Pi4 as it is on a i5-4570 CPU @ 3.20GHz, evolution is certainly very useable.

I'll now have to reconsider if I need to have a x86 desktop machine at all. 8-)

PeterO
Awesome!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:16 pm
by jahboater
PeterO wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:58 pm
I'll now have to reconsider if I need to have a x86 desktop machine at all. 8-)
Exactly! Same here.

Rather than a large tower PC using 150 watts or so of power and costing £1500 or more, I could just settle for a credit card sized Pi4 using 15 watts max and costing £55. And completely silent. And has a great OS.

The Pi4 is a game changer.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:56 pm
by binaryhermit
Oh, I guess I misread or something, that wouldn't surprise me. Mea culpa.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:06 pm
by jodesi
I have the Pi 4 (4GB)

Apart from it being very toasty, the performance seems to be lacking. I've tried Raspian and it suffers bad screen tearing and barely plays x264 via VLC. x265 are not an option unfortunately. I've tried Raspian lite and one media centre (the ELEC one) again with varied results.

I understand it's new and so is the software. I'm just curious if I'm doing anything wrong? I have another couple of micro SDs coming later so I don't mind testing things out.

Thanks for any pointers.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:16 pm
by maximumwarp
Will an official Ubuntu Server 18.04 image be released for Pi 4 4GB? ETA?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:17 pm
by PeterO
maximumwarp wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:16 pm
Will an official Ubuntu Server 18.04 image be released for Pi 4 4GB? ETA?
It is better to ask questions about Ubuntu on a Ubuntu forum.

PeterO

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:30 pm
by maximumwarp
PeterO wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:17 pm
maximumwarp wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:16 pm
Will an official Ubuntu Server 18.04 image be released for Pi 4 4GB? ETA?
It is better to ask questions about Ubuntu on a Ubuntu forum.

PeterO
The Ubuntu release for Pi is from Canonical not from Raspberry foundation?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:32 pm
by binaryhermit
I'm not sure if it's from Canonical, but it's not from the RPF.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:44 pm
by k-pi
maximumwarp wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:30 pm
PeterO wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 5:17 pm


It is better to ask questions about Ubuntu on a Ubuntu forum.

PeterO
The Ubuntu release for Pi is from Canonical not from Raspberry foundation?
Yes, it is from Canonical.
https://ubuntu.com/download/iot/raspber ... 3#download

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:45 pm
by schorsch76
It is total amazing watching an empty google page and watching on my PC via ssh the pi4 temperature and htop. 4 Cores maximum load and the pi4 reaches 80°C and it starts to throttle. I already installed small heat sinks on the CPU but i am not sure how much it helps.

The over temperature icon shows up in the upper corner. In this case i use midori as a browser.

With a 40 mm fan at 12V the temperature drops fast to 54°C at 100% load and 26°C ambient temperature. As far as i know,the gpio-fan overlay start the fan at 55°C. It would now permanently toggle the fan.

What i ask myself: The smartphones have similar processors. How is their heat management? :?:

My conclussion about this test: If i want to use the pi4 at high load, i must have a case with active cooling. :!:

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:57 pm
by gtechn
schorsch76 wrote: It is total amazing watching an empty google page and watching on my PC via ssh the pi4 temperature and htop. 4 Cores maximum load and the pi4 reaches 80°C and it starts to throttle. I already installed small heat sinks on the CPU but i am not sure how much it helps.

The over temperature icon shows up in the upper corner. In this case i use midori as a browser.

With a 40 mm fan at 12V the temperature drops fast to 54°C at 100% load and 26°C ambient temperature. As far as i know,the gpio-fan overlay start the fan at 55°C. It would now permanently toggle the fan.

What i ask myself: The smartphones have similar processors. How is their heat management? :?:

My conclussion about this test: If i want to use the pi4 at high load, i must have a case with active cooling. :!:
Before you despair, updated firmware is coming in a few weeks which drops temps significantly and improves power usage. You can read the "not all pi 4s created equal?" post for more info on this.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:10 pm
by jbeale
schorsch76 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:45 pm
It is total amazing watching an empty google page and watching on my PC via ssh the pi4 temperature and htop. 4 Cores maximum load and the pi4 reaches 80°C and it starts to throttle.
As an aside, I wonder if simply having a browser open to an empty google page would be expected to result in 100% on all four cores, if that is what happened here.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:12 pm
by schorsch76
gtechn wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:57 pm
schorsch76 wrote: It is total amazing watching an empty google page and watching on my PC via ssh the pi4 temperature and htop. 4 Cores maximum load and the pi4 reaches 80°C and it starts to throttle. I already installed small heat sinks on the CPU but i am not sure how much it helps.

The over temperature icon shows up in the upper corner. In this case i use midori as a browser.

With a 40 mm fan at 12V the temperature drops fast to 54°C at 100% load and 26°C ambient temperature. As far as i know,the gpio-fan overlay start the fan at 55°C. It would now permanently toggle the fan.

What i ask myself: The smartphones have similar processors. How is their heat management? :?:

My conclussion about this test: If i want to use the pi4 at high load, i must have a case with active cooling. :!:
Before you despair, updated firmware is coming in a few weeks which drops temps significantly and improves power usage. You can read the "not all pi 4s created equal?" post for more info on this.
I dont despair! I just realized, that at current high outside and inside temperature, even without a case, i must have a fan. I guess the smartphone vendors use heatpipe and such stuff to get their CPUs cool.

With performance governour and CPU fan, i can easy use firefox-esr (with ublock) and watch most of my sites.Some pages seem to use so much JS, that the browser hit 100% CPU (without ublock), but it seems, even YT is useable in firefox, when the CPU dont throttle and can get its heat away and dont need to load so much ads.. With VLC its total easy for the pi4 to play a 1080p video from my NAS.

About the firmware i know, it willsave about 300mW. :)

So yes, it is really useable as a small desktop (with some preparation).

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:14 pm
by schorsch76
jbeale wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:10 pm
schorsch76 wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:45 pm
It is total amazing watching an empty google page and watching on my PC via ssh the pi4 temperature and htop. 4 Cores maximum load and the pi4 reaches 80°C and it starts to throttle.
As an aside, I wonder if simply having a browser open to an empty google page would be expected to result in 100% on all four cores, if that is what happened here.
Yes, that is exactly what i did: Open Midori, open google.de, ssh into the pi4, watch the temp, ssh again into the pi4, htop.

This is my screenshot:
https://www.schorsch-tech.de/lib/exe/fe ... 0-load.png

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:33 pm
by Pointlespi
Rpi4/4g running SSH & pihole with no HDMI out, WiFi or Bluetooth...

Maxing out CPU constantly. Not sure why?

https://imgur.com/a/d9usv5b

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:00 pm
by laurent
Many reviewers (and myself) felt the same excitement having this brand new Raspberry Pi between our hands, than the many first released in 2012.
I think it's because this SBC is almost totally new, it's a fact. Give feedback and let some time for the software to follow, the best is incoming.
Don't you remember the early Raspbian releases which wasn't even in hardfp (huge improvement so far) ? The community and the RPF/RPT grown since those early days, but so does the expectations.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:18 pm
by jamesh
Pointlespi wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:33 pm
Rpi4/4g running SSH & pihole with no HDMI out, WiFi or Bluetooth...

Maxing out CPU constantly. Not sure why?

https://imgur.com/a/d9usv5b

That picture doesn't really say much, just that the CPU is currently at 1500, not necessary under load.

What does top or htop say?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:45 pm
by TimG
Purely out of curiosity, what are the Pi4's extra components around the audio jack? PWM drivers and a stabilised power supply? How is the Pi4's audio quality compared to previous models?

LHS: Pi3B+
RHS: Pi4
pijacksmall.jpg
pijacksmall.jpg (155.48 KiB) Viewed 2015 times

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 4:46 am
by raidensnake
Is it me or is the raspberry pi 4 lacking in graphics support? I've tried running a lot of things that use vc4 drivers and nothing works. I just get thrown errors all the time. Either that or blank screens as well.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:00 am
by plugwash
The pi4 has a new 3D core that is only supported by the mesa based 3D stack, not the old VPU drivers :/

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:38 am
by Imperf3kt
TimG wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:45 pm
Purely out of curiosity, what are the Pi4's extra components around the audio jack? PWM drivers and a stabilised power supply? How is the Pi4's audio quality compared to previous models?

LHS: Pi3B+
RHS: Pi4
pijacksmall.jpg
Just a guess, but it looks to me like the extra componentry there is related to the USB hub.

Nice to see they altered the position of a known problematic capacitor (C58/C83)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:33 am
by TimG
Imperf3kt wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:38 am
Just a guess, but it looks to me like the extra componentry there is related to the USB hub.
On closer examination it looks like the power circuitry is for the VIA chip and SOC. I guess the main power chip does not generate all the necessary voltage levels. That still leaves the two 8-pin chips near the jack which may or may not drive the audio filters.

Either way I’m looking forward to testing the Pi4’s audio.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:18 am
by pvdmeer
First off.. Let me say I love Raspberry Pi. It has almost singlehandedly brought back the coolness of home computing with its openness and DIY community. So when I heard the news, of course I ordered the Pi4 faster than an owl can hoot!

I got it yesterday and guess what, they reversed the USB and Ethernet ports. Not only this, but they also stick out a millimeter extra. How could the Pi foundation have made such a mistake... Many casings won't fit anymore.. Is there any chance this will be fixed later on in a variation of the Pi 4?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:21 am
by PeterO
pvdmeer wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:18 am
I got it yesterday and guess what, they reversed the USB and Ethernet ports
You're in for a surprise when you try to connect your monitor :lol:
PeterO

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:35 am
by HawaiianPi
PeterO wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:21 am
You're in for a surprise when you try to connect your monitor :lol:
PeterO
ROFL! Image

pvdmeer wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:18 am
... and guess what, they reversed the USB and Ethernet ports. Not only this, but they also stick out a millimeter extra. How could the Pi foundation have made such a mistake... Many casings won't fit anymore.. Is there any chance this will be fixed later on in a variation of the Pi 4?

Other changes as well, and no chance it will be fixed, because nothing is broken. It's not a mistake, it's a new design, and there's a new case to go along with it. If you don't want to buy a new case, the announcement blog said the old case could be modified (picture is link).

Image