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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:30 pm
by bunklung
If I understand correctly the Pi 4 changes the GPU to 600 Mhz when operating in 4K. Why not always operate at 600Mhz?

If 600Mhz is a normal clock operating mode, then what have some of you been able to clock the GPU beyond 600? Tom's Hardware tested at 600 with good results, but again that doesn't seem like really pushing the GPU beyond stock.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:34 pm
by Bakul Shah
jbudd wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:57 am
WiFi MAC address changes

My older Pis up to Pi 3B all have MAC addresses B8:27:EB:xx:xx:xx (Raspberry Pi Foundation)
The Pi4 has DC:A6:32:xx:xx:xx (Raspberry Pi Trading)

What's the significance of this change - apart from making the Pi a bit harder to spot in IpScan24?
With the first 3 bytes fixed and last 3 bytes to play with, you get only 16 million unique MAC addresses and they’ve already sold 26 million units! Expect to see more 3 byte (or six hex digit) prefixes for RPF or RPT!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:29 pm
by W. H. Heydt
Bakul Shah wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:34 pm
jbudd wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 11:57 am
WiFi MAC address changes

My older Pis up to Pi 3B all have MAC addresses B8:27:EB:xx:xx:xx (Raspberry Pi Foundation)
The Pi4 has DC:A6:32:xx:xx:xx (Raspberry Pi Trading)

What's the significance of this change - apart from making the Pi a bit harder to spot in IpScan24?
With the first 3 bytes fixed and last 3 bytes to play with, you get only 16 million unique MAC addresses and they’ve already sold 26 million units! Expect to see more 3 byte (or six hex digit) prefixes for RPF or RPT!
Nope. Just expect to see more address collisions. Rare for individuals. More common to large to very large commercial installations. The issue has already come up and been seen "in the wild".

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:41 pm
by Bakul Shah
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:29 pm
Bakul Shah wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:34 pm
With the first 3 bytes fixed and last 3 bytes to play with, you get only 16 million unique MAC addresses and they’ve already sold 26 million units! Expect to see more 3 byte (or six hex digit) prefixes for RPF or RPT!
Nope. Just expect to see more address collisions. Rare for individuals. More common to large to very large commercial installations. The issue has already come up and been seen "in the wild".
While it is true that one can not assume unique hardwired MAC addresses, every device on any given IP subnet does need a unique MAC address. Debugging duplicates can be very painful. Device vendors try to minimize address collisions so as to avoid a bad reputation -- may be they'd sell devices with using the same addresses in different parts of the world but not in the same part. I'd expect RPT to be mindful of this.

I did a quick check on IEEE and the top N companies with multiple MAC prefixes are:

Code: Select all

 876 Cisco Systems
 711 Apple
 556 HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO.
 529 Samsung Electronics Co.
 307 ARRIS Group
 268 Intel Corporate
 197 Texas Instruments
 175 IEEE Registration Authority
 171 zte corporation
 150 Hewlett Packard
This was using a dumb one line shell script (see below). If the same vendor has slightly different entries, they will be counted as different vendors.

Code: Select all

wget http://standards-oui.ieee.org/oui/oui.csv
cut -d, -f 3 oui.csv| sed 's/"//g'|sort|uniq -c|sort -nr|head -10

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:42 pm
by jamesh
bunklung wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:30 pm
If I understand correctly the Pi 4 changes the GPU to 600 Mhz when operating in 4K. Why not always operate at 600Mhz?

If 600Mhz is a normal clock operating mode, then what have some of you been able to clock the GPU beyond 600? Tom's Hardware tested at 600 with good results, but again that doesn't seem like really pushing the GPU beyond stock.
Make little difference to speed, but a big difference to the SoC temperature. So unless you need it, we disable it to keep temperatures down.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:10 pm
by joan
BlindDevelopment wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:34 pm
Has there been any indication as to when the BCM2711 Peripherals Specification will be released, or more specifically the memory addresses of the GPIO registers to be access via C/C++?

Haven't found anything myself, but screen reading sometimes misses things.

Cheers!
On the Pi4B the peripheral base address appears to be 0xfe000000 from Linux. The offsets to the various peripherals from that base address appear to be unchanged.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:33 am
by solar3000
PeterO wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:39 am
EdwinJ85 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:14 am

I was a little confused about the two mini HDMI ports vs one full size one,
FYI they are micro HDMI not mini HDMI.
PeterO
That's nothing. Someone in a previous post said HTML port.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:40 am
by solar3000
So I plugged in a Samsung phone charger that supplies 5.12 volts at 2 amps........so far, no dreaded low voltage lightning bolt.
So far, I have the pi running youtube videos on a web browser, the current drain has ranged from .6A to .9A.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:11 am
by solar3000
How much GPU should I set?
I'm thinking of running youtube videos and general web browsing, videos, etc...

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:43 am
by solar3000
So can I use a bluetooth headset with the pi? Would the mic work?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:31 pm
by geri12
tomasf wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:43 pm
6by9 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 1:31 pm
I wonder if the pin muxing isn't right.
Please check with "raspi-gpio get" that GPIOs 0-27 are all set to alt2 for the DPI function.
You can achieve the same as "dtoverlay=dpi24" by doing "gpio=0-27=a2".
Yay! That did it! The screen didn't look quite right with that dpi_timing line, but it turns out that old hdmi_cvt line still works with the correct gpio settings in place. Thank you!
Hi!

DPI display Works PI4:

Update Raspbian Jessie on pi3. (where the display is already set and works …)

1. In the files /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/raspi.list, change every use of the word “stretch” to “buster”.
2. In a terminal, sudo apt update and then sudo apt dist-upgrade
3. Wait for the upgrade to complete, answering ‘yes’ to any prompt. There may also be a point at which the install pauses while a page of information is shown on the screen – hold the ‘space’ key to scroll through all of this and then hit ‘q’ to continue.
4. The update will take anywhere from half an hour to several hours, depending on your network speed. When it completes, reboot your Raspberry Pi...

5. Reboot
6. If all is well, then shut down pi3. SD card transfer to pi4. It will start Raspbian buster, and the display perfect, not dark.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:44 pm
by MrMcTiller
I'm sorry if someone already asked this, but would the Pi 4 support dual 1440x900 @ 60fps?

Also, does anyone know of any cases that support having a fan for the rpi4? This little Pi runs a bit toasty.

And one more thing, I've seen little fans that you can tape to the top of the heatsinks on Pi boards. Anyone know where to get those and the heatsinks?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:54 pm
by dom
MrMcTiller wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:44 pm
Also, does anyone know of any cases that support having a fan for the rpi4? This little Pi runs a bit toasty.

And one more thing, I've seen little fans that you can tape to the top of the heatsinks on Pi boards. Anyone know where to get those and the heatsinks?
Assuming the FLIRC case for Pi4 works like previous ones that is a good choice. It typically lowers temperatures by about 30'C without a fan (the whole case is an aluminium heat sink). See: https://kodi.tv/article/flirc-kodi-edit ... pi-4b-case
(not available yet, but can preorder).

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:56 pm
by jahboater
MrMcTiller wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:44 pm
This little Pi runs a bit toasty.
Try the command "vcgencmd get_throttled" after running a typical workload.
If it says 0x0 (zero) you have nothing to worry about temperature wise.

Outside of a case its unlikely to throttle, even without a heat sink.
Unless perhaps you live in the tropics - or central Europe :)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:11 pm
by W. H. Heydt
jahboater wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:56 pm
Outside of a case its unlikely to throttle, even without a heat sink.
Unless perhaps you live in the tropics - or central Europe :)
Where I live, about 30 miles NE of San Francisco, CA, we get days where it runs over 100F and this area is hardly described as "tropics". There are places I've been NE about 150 miles of where I live that have hit over 120F in the summer.

One is reminded of the (possibly apocryphal) headline from the Times of London: 80 degrees again today, no relief in sight. Goes well with the other supposed headline...Fog over the channel. Europe cut off.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:29 pm
by mkirk
What WiFi/BLE chipset is used on the new Pi 4B?
I am guessing a Cypress (Broadcom) part, but does anyone know the part number?

Will is support simultaneous AP + STA (client) mode like the CYW43438 on the Pi 3B?

We have one on backorder, so when it arrives with can query iw list to check ourselves.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:32 pm
by gtechn
Not quite related to the previous discussion, but for the Engineers:

I've been watching many of the Pi 4 review videos (and I'm sure you have too), and I've noticed that many (at least in my recommendations, almost all) of the reviewers are opening up Chromium and trying to play even 1080p and complaining that it still can't play 4K video. Of course, I know this is ridiculous because this version of Chromium even has the GPU specially disabled, but the reviewers don't seem to know that.

My point is, when the GPU is re-enabled on Chromium, it might be worth publishing an official blog post on the RPi website not only describing why the GPU was disabled in Chromium, that performance is better know, but also how to effectively access the GPU (i.e. use LibreElec). Misunderstandings about how the GPU is used and how it "isn't that much of an improvement for video - look at YouTube!" are everywhere.
mkirk wrote: What WiFi/BLE chipset is used on the new Pi 4B?
The WiFi chipset has not been changed in any way. The Bluetooth 5.0 / 5GHz broadband was a firmware update, but the chipset itself remains the same.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:33 pm
by Heater
W. H. Heydt,
One is reminded of the (possibly apocryphal) headline from the Times of London: 80 degrees again today, no relief in sight.
Apocryphal or not. 80F is only 26.7C.

It has been over that temperature everyday for a week or more my apartment, with all the doors and windows open. I'm in Finland!

Did you not see the news today of record temperatures in France, Germany and Spain?

The Pi is going to need all the cooling it can get as we push climate change over the edge!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:38 pm
by mkirk
This does not make sense, the Pi 3B has CYW43438 chip that does not support 5 GHz WiFi

But 4B does support 5 GHz WiFi, so is is not the CYW43438 chip.

Did you mean to say the 4B uses the same chipset as the Pi 3B+ (not 3B)?
https://www.cypress.com/file/358916/download CYW43455

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:45 pm
by gtechn
I was referring to the previous generation of Raspberry Pi, which is the 3B+.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:53 pm
by EdwinJ85
solar3000 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:33 am
PeterO wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:39 am
EdwinJ85 wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:14 am

I was a little confused about the two mini HDMI ports vs one full size one,
FYI they are micro HDMI not mini HDMI.
PeterO
That's nothing. Someone in a previous post said HTML port.
Oh dear. I'm never living this one down am I? :shock:

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:08 pm
by alphanumeric
EdwinJ85 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:53 pm
solar3000 wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:33 am
PeterO wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:39 am

FYI they are micro HDMI not mini HDMI.
PeterO
That's nothing. Someone in a previous post said HTML port.
Oh dear. I'm never living this one down am I? :shock:
Blame it on autocorrect and your off the hook. ;)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 pm
by MrMcTiller
dom wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:54 pm
MrMcTiller wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:44 pm
Also, does anyone know of any cases that support having a fan for the rpi4? This little Pi runs a bit toasty.

And one more thing, I've seen little fans that you can tape to the top of the heatsinks on Pi boards. Anyone know where to get those and the heatsinks?
Assuming the FLIRC case for Pi4 works like previous ones that is a good choice. It typically lowers temperatures by about 30'C without a fan (the whole case is an aluminium heat sink). See: https://kodi.tv/article/flirc-kodi-edit ... pi-4b-case
(not available yet, but can preorder).
Thank you for that.

So... any idea on the dual 1440x900 @ 60FPS?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:39 pm
by HawaiianPi
MrMcTiller wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 pm
So... any idea on the dual 1440x900 @ 60FPS?
Since the Pi4 supports dual 4K monitors, and 1440x900 is well below that, then yes, dual 900p monitors should work fine.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:42 pm
by plugwash
The big question I would think with such monitors is whether the monitor supports it's full resoloution over HDMI or not.

IIRC HDMI was only recently upgraded to support high-res (> 1600x1200) monitors, so older monitors may only support their full resoloution on displayport or dual-link DVI.