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HawaiianPi
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:39 pm

MrMcTiller wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 pm
So... any idea on the dual 1440x900 @ 60FPS?
Since the Pi4 supports dual 4K monitors, and 1440x900 is well below that, then yes, dual 900p monitors should work fine.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

plugwash
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:42 pm

The big question I would think with such monitors is whether the monitor supports it's full resoloution over HDMI or not.

IIRC HDMI was only recently upgraded to support high-res (> 1600x1200) monitors, so older monitors may only support their full resoloution on displayport or dual-link DVI.

noggin
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:46 pm

plugwash wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:42 pm
The big question I would think with such monitors is whether the monitor supports it's full resoloution over HDMI or not.

IIRC HDMI was only recently upgraded to support high-res (> 1600x1200) monitors, so older monitors may only support their full resoloution on displayport or dual-link DVI.
Worry not - HDMI can support non-HDTV resolutions too. It can support 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720, 1280x800, 1366x768 etc.

(There was originally an issue with carrying 480i and 576 interlaced video as their clock rate was too low, so the HDMI spec allowed for horizontal pixel doubling - where every pixel is repeated horizontally - to get round this. 640x480 progressive has a higher clock rate so didn't need this trick)

noggin
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:55 pm

timg236 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:44 am
The HDMI hardware does not support YCbCr420. So for 4Kp60 deep colour YCbCr422 is the only option
Yes - so currently RGB 8-bit 2160p60 is output, but for 10-bit or higher bit depth (really required for HDR) your only option is YCbCr 4:2:2 (which is 12-bit only according to HDMI 2.0 specs - though 10-bit can be carried in that with padding)

bunklung
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:57 pm

MrMcTiller wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:28 pm
dom wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:54 pm
MrMcTiller wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:44 pm
Also, does anyone know of any cases that support having a fan for the rpi4? This little Pi runs a bit toasty.

And one more thing, I've seen little fans that you can tape to the top of the heatsinks on Pi boards. Anyone know where to get those and the heatsinks?
Assuming the FLIRC case for Pi4 works like previous ones that is a good choice. It typically lowers temperatures by about 30'C without a fan (the whole case is an aluminium heat sink). See: https://kodi.tv/article/flirc-kodi-edit ... pi-4b-case
(not available yet, but can preorder).
Thank you for that.

So... any idea on the dual 1440x900 @ 60FPS?
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 5#p1484065
Last edited by bunklung on Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

noggin
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:58 pm

Ashe wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 6:48 pm
timg236 wrote:
Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:44 am
The HDMI hardware does not support YCbCr420. So for 4Kp60 deep colour YCbCr422 is the only option
Just reading through all these posts earlier about HDMI and YCbCr420. Does all this mean my SDR 4K TV won't work with the Pi 4 at 4K60? This is what NVIDIA Control Panel shows for it.
Image
That depends on whether your nVidia card supports >4:2:0 output. Early nVidia cards only supported 4:2:0 for 4K60 output.

However 4:2:0 8-bit support is all that is really required for a 4K SDR TV (My old SDR 4K Sony KD49X8505B is 4:2:0-only for 4K60 I think) You may be out of luck and have to stick with 4K30.

lb
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:17 am

DDR50 mode for SD cards is definitely a big plus. With a capable A1 class card, I/O feels much more snappy than on the older models.
However, I wonder why SDR104 is not being used. It's a noticeable upgrade from DDR50 and part of the UHS-1 specification. Is the SD controller in the new SoC capable of SDR104? Is it possibly just disabled as a precaution (due to much higher clocks etc.)?

Ashe
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:02 am

noggin wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:58 pm
That depends on whether your nVidia card supports >4:2:0 output. Early nVidia cards only supported 4:2:0 for 4K60 output.

However 4:2:0 8-bit support is all that is really required for a 4K SDR TV (My old SDR 4K Sony KD49X8505B is 4:2:0-only for 4K60 I think) You may be out of luck and have to stick with 4K30.
Thanks. It's a 1080 Ti, so would think the card is modern enough to be capable of >4:2:0 output.

Shame - was looking forward to 4K support, and the mouse jerkiness on 4K30 is something I'm really not used to.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:31 am

noggin wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:46 pm
Worry not - HDMI can support non-HDTV resolutions too. It can support 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720, 1280x800, 1366x768 etc.
NM brainfart, I was confusing 1440x900 (which is fine on single link DVI or older versions of HDMI) with 2560x1440 (which needs dual link DVI, displayport, or HDMI 1.3+ to get 60FPS) and also wrote 1600x1200 when I meant 1920x1200.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:43 am

plugwash wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:31 am
noggin wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:46 pm
Worry not - HDMI can support non-HDTV resolutions too. It can support 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720, 1280x800, 1366x768 etc.
NM brainfart, I was confusing 1440x900 (which is fine on single link DVI or older versions of HDMI) with 2560x1440 (which needs dual link DVI, displayport, or HDMI 1.3+ to get 60FPS) and also wrote 1600x1200 when I meant 1920x1200.
I have a 1600x1200 20" monitor, which--by the way--works just fine with a Pi2B.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:30 am

Can anyone tell me if the Pi 4 supports DTS-MA & Dolby True HD?

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:58 am

I will say the one drawback for making things with the Pi4 is the burn marks on your legs or similar if you try to use it as a portable 'thing'.
It's unfortunate.

Hopefully and most likely the wizzards in RPT headquarters are beavering away and coming up with a lower power, cool but reasonably high performing Pi4 based device product.
(Yes I know there is the 3B, but hey ho if you're using the 4Bs new features you loose backwards compatibility.).

Keep up the good work. :-)

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:13 am

jz1276 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:30 am
Can anyone tell me if the Pi 4 supports DTS-MA & Dolby True HD?
Not yet - but the issue that stopped it being possible on previous Pis has been removed.

The Pi 3B+ and below all maxed out at 4.0 192kHz PCM over HDMI, with 5.1/7.1 PCM only supported at lower sampling rates. To carry DTS HD MA or Dolby True HD you need an HDMI connection that supports 7.1 192kHz PCM over HDMI - even though you aren't running in PCM, you need that bandwidth guarantee. The Pi developers have announced that 8 channel 192kHz is supported on the Pi 4B, and that HD Audio is being worked on. (This should also allow Atmos and DTS:x passthrough too - as they are extensions to DTS HD MA or DD+/Dolby True HD bitstreams and not a new spec)

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:59 am

Today I'm using my Pi4 at The National Museum Of Computing to run my Elliott 803 emulator because it is too hot to run the real machine (which is 50 years old and full of Germanium transistors).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-OULw9W4AAHcg6.png:large
PeterO
Last edited by PeterO on Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - where's the ADC?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:19 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 am
tony1tf wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:30 am
The new Pi 4 looks great for laptop or desktop replacement. But, why no ADC available on the GPIO multiplexed pins? Is there a commercial reason in that the Foundation don't want to upset the re-sellers with the various peripherals that provide an ADC function. ADC inputs would finally kick Arduinos into touch!
Tony
Cost, which would be applied to all users, vs a smaller number of people who would actually use it is one reason. Another is that the die space on the SoC. It's easy enough to add one or more on the GPIO's, and we now have more I2C to help with that.

Just curios, how much cost and space would ADCs add compared to everything already in there? Seems standard on every (cheap) microcontroller, don't other BCM SoCs have ADC designs ready to go?

I think a lot of people miss ADC, probably one of the most common add-ons, would complete an otherwise awesome new version, especially for anything embedded.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - where's the ADC?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:37 pm

richx wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:19 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:36 am
Cost, which would be applied to all users, vs a smaller number of people who would actually use it is one reason. Another is that the die space on the SoC. It's easy enough to add one or more on the GPIO's, and we now have more I2C to help with that.
Just curios, how much cost and space would ADCs add compared to everything already in there? Seems standard on every (cheap) microcontroller, don't other BCM SoCs have ADC designs ready to go?

I think a lot of people miss ADC, probably one of the most common add-ons, would complete an otherwise awesome new version, especially for anything embedded.
It's very hard to quantify. However making a robust analogue input on the smaller silicon process nodes (ie 28nm and below) is difficult. Most microcontrollers are on either 40 or 65nm where it is significantly easier.
You're also typically looking at needing a clean power supply to feed the ADCs, so further adding to the ancillaries needed (it may be possible to share with the DAC for the analogue video out, but no guarantees as that is relatively high speed).
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

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Strange things with new graphics driver ...

Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:41 pm

Hi,

as I couldn't get dual display running on my CM3L hardware I've started some tests with my freshly arrived RPi 4 2GB.

Started with DSI display only which worked fine from the start.

With DSI still connected I've added a HDMI display which did not show any content. Don't know what I did exactly but suddenly the HDMI display came to life and I had dual display running. Tested the screen configuration tool and so far s good.
Anyhow, will try with a fresh SD card to see if I'm able to replicate it.

Now off to new horizons! With the HDMI configured as primary display I've tried to get my Adafruit 5in + Kippah running. Well, what should I say ... tried x configs ... checked wiring y times because the screen was not working. Then had the idea to check the status of my GPIO with 'raps-gpio get'.
Surprise surprise! GPIO were still at default!
Conclusion: from my testing I need to say that 'dtoverlay=dpi24' fails to initialize GPIO to ALT2 mode for DPI. Changing the method of how to initialize to 'gpio=0-27=a2' and the DPI display started to work.
Strange to see that the GPIO timing seems to have changed for Pi4 as the display image is incorrect. By the way: I know that jamesh has such a display in the office (or knows somebody who has one), so should be easy to replicate. I've used the timing from DPI page, but here is my full config.txt for your reference :

Code: Select all

# For more options and information see
# http://rpf.io/configtxt
# Some settings may impact device functionality. See link above for details

# uncomment if you get no picture on HDMI for a default "safe" mode
#hdmi_safe=1

# uncomment this if your display has a black border of unused pixels visible
# and your display can output without overscan
disable_overscan=1

# uncomment the following to adjust overscan. Use positive numbers if console
# goes off screen, and negative if there is too much border
#overscan_left=16
#overscan_right=16
#overscan_top=16
#overscan_bottom=16

# uncomment to force a console size. By default it will be display's size minus
# overscan.
#framebuffer_width=1280
#framebuffer_height=720

# uncomment if hdmi display is not detected and composite is being output
#hdmi_force_hotplug=1

# uncomment to force a specific HDMI mode (this will force VGA)
#hdmi_group=1
#hdmi_mode=1

# uncomment to force a HDMI mode rather than DVI. This can make audio work in
# DMT (computer monitor) modes
#hdmi_drive=2

# uncomment to increase signal to HDMI, if you have interference, blanking, or
# no display
#config_hdmi_boost=4

# uncomment for composite PAL
#sdtv_mode=2

#uncomment to overclock the arm. 700 MHz is the default.
#arm_freq=800

# Uncomment some or all of these to enable the optional hardware interfaces
#dtparam=i2c_arm=on
#dtparam=i2s=on
#dtparam=spi=on

# Uncomment this to enable the lirc-rpi module
#dtoverlay=lirc-rpi

# Additional overlays and parameters are documented /boot/overlays/README

# Enable audio (loads snd_bcm2835)
dtparam=audio=on

[pi4]
# Enable DRM VC4 V3D driver on top of the dispmanx display stack
dtoverlay=vc4-fkms-v3d
max_framebuffers=2

[all]
#dtoverlay=vc4-fkms-v3d
start_x=1
gpu_mem=208
hdmi_enable_4k=1

# ---------------------------------------------
# Dustom DPI timing for Adafruit 5in + Kippah
# ---------------------------------------------
gpio=0-27=a2
#dtoverlay=dpi24
enable_dpi_lcd=1
#display_default_lcd=1
dpi_group=2
dpi_mode=87
#dpi_output_format=454661
dpi_output_format=0x6f005
dpi_timings=800 0 40 48 88 480 0 13 3 32 0 0 0 60 0 32000000 6
IMG_0987_small.jpg
Adafruit 5in DPI displays shows incorrect image
IMG_0987_small.jpg (84.52 KiB) Viewed 1203 times
here's the original image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hBS80x ... nDjJe/view

Strange thing that happens with DPI display is where the driver places it. Both display were overlapping! Sure, one can use the screen configuration tool to arrange them, but why is it working correctly in case of DSI and not for DPI?

This is what it looks like:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uzcuKw ... G65Yu/view
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17k4kbG ... y8-eY/view

Also noted during boot that DSI or DPI always will show console/boot screen up to the point where the new driver kicks in. Might only be a minor problem but can cause some issues, so would like to understand why this is happening.

Note: The Pi get's really hot ... so hot that one can burn his fingers when touching the board for longer time. That's why I did not dare to put it into the new official case.

iridium2177
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Unofficial Raspberry Pi 4 cases?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:09 pm

Hi there,

Will a Raspberry Pi 4 fit in a Raspberry Pi 3 plus case without problem?

Hmm, having thought about it, the HDMI and power sockets wouldn't be right.

Does anyone know of sellers of unofficial Raspberry Pi 4 cases?

Many thanks,

Steve

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:21 pm

By my reckoning, it will fit into a RPi3B official case with that side removed, as a temporary measure until the RPi4B official case is available.

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Re: Strange things with new graphics driver ...

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:22 pm

aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:41 pm
Note: The Pi get's really hot ... so hot that one can burn his fingers when touching the board for longer time. That's why I did not dare to put it into the new official case.
I have a lot of older Pi boards in 3D printed enclosures. From this I wonder if the Pi4 higher temperature (which is also more spread-out and extends to the USB/LAN connectors) means 3D printed cases will more likely warp from the heat. Seems like a metal case with an overall finned shape to double as an integral heatsink is now the way to go.

FWIW I have an Intel-based "Fitlet2" MiniPC made this way, it is small and draws about 10 watts which is even more than a Pi4. I have it working 24/7 but the (fanless) passive heatsink-case is so effective I can't feel any difference from room temperature.

Image

lb
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:37 pm

Yeah, 3D printed cases might have issues, at least with PLA. I'm going to use PETG for my 3D printed PI 4 cases. :)

alphanumeric
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Re: Unofficial Raspberry Pi 4 cases?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:47 pm

iridium2177 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:09 pm
Hi there,

Will a Raspberry Pi 4 fit in a Raspberry Pi 3 plus case without problem?

Hmm, having thought about it, the HDMI and power sockets wouldn't be right.

Does anyone know of sellers of unofficial Raspberry Pi 4 cases?

Many thanks,

Steve
The ethernet jack has moved to the other side which also moved the USB ports around.
There is an official Pi 4 case out.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... i-4-case/

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schorsch76
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:01 pm

Thanks to Reichelt.de i got my RPi4 at thursday :)

Very nice device, but i got an anoying problem: The reboot does not always properly work. Regardless if i do "sudo reboot -f" or "sudo reboot". The device is connected to LAN (at 100 MBit). Latest buster image from the download site and newest updates. I see "Now there should come the rainbow" nut nothing happens. Power cable needs to be replugged than it boots again. It does not happen every time. Maybe one in 4 times.

Any hints? I already updated the boot spi flash with the recovery tool.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:07 pm

schorsch76 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:01 pm
Thanks to Reichelt.de i got my RPi4 at thursday :)

Very nice device, but i got an anoying problem: The reboot does not always properly work. Regardless if i do "sudo reboot -f" or "sudo reboot". The device is connected to LAN (at 100 MBit). Latest buster image from the download site and newest updates. I see "Now there should come the rainbow" nut nothing happens. Power cable needs to be replugged than it boots again. It does not happen every time. Maybe one in 4 times.

Any hints? I already updated the boot spi flash with the recovery tool.
What else do you have plugged into the Pi?
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

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schorsch76
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 pm

I got an usb keyboard, HDMI, Ethernet (no Wifi configured), power and thats it

EDIT: I got the 3A PSU from the Pi foundation.
Last edited by schorsch76 on Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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