mrreality13
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:44 am

Burngate wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:04 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:27 pm
Just as long as everyone realises that the Pi4 spec is set in stone
Ah, but what sort of stone? Basalt? Granite? Chalk? Marble?
My preference would be either Gneiss or Schist, only because they're difficult to spell.
pi 4 / pet rock
remember ,never approach a computer thinking this will only take a minute
~~pi zero w and a 3b+

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:57 am

mrreality13 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:44 am
Burngate wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:04 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 5:27 pm
Just as long as everyone realises that the Pi4 spec is set in stone
Ah, but what sort of stone? Basalt? Granite? Chalk? Marble?
My preference would be either Gneiss or Schist, only because they're difficult to spell.
pi 4 / pet rock
Image
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

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davidcoton
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:44 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:49 pm
davidcoton wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:28 pm
DougieLawson wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:56 am
It'll be as cool as a rainbow coloured unicorn flying through the streets of Cambridge.
I'm fresh out of street cred. Is said unicorn cool, hot, or both?
It depends what engines or propulsion system it uses.
Cold fusion?
Pi4B $35
Power Unit $35 billion :lol:
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Tzarls
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:17 pm

Since the only thing we know for sure about the Pi4, or Pi5, or Pi6 is that price will be 35$...can I pre-order right now? Coumt me as first in line, others can stand behind me. 😁

jbudd
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:50 pm

Just imagine how many oil wells and power stations we could dispense with if all of the 200/300 watt PCs currently displaying call centre scripts and other undemanding office tasks were replaced by 10 watt Raspberry Pi 5s.

First you reintroduced children (of all ages) to computing, now save the planet!

jamesh
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:07 pm

jbudd wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:50 pm
Just imagine how many oil wells and power stations we could dispense with if all of the 200/300 watt PCs currently displaying call centre scripts and other undemanding office tasks were replaced by 10 watt Raspberry Pi 5s.

First you reintroduced children (of all ages) to computing, now save the planet!
Pi4's. It's going to be that good, IMHO.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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jbudd
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:16 pm

Pushing slightly at the door marked "Secret" jamesh, do you have a working prototype on your desk yet?

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bensimmo
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:36 pm

jamesh wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:07 pm
jbudd wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:50 pm
Just imagine how many oil wells and power stations we could dispense with if all of the 200/300 watt PCs currently displaying call centre scripts and other undemanding office tasks were replaced by 10 watt Raspberry Pi 5s.

First you reintroduced children (of all ages) to computing, now save the planet!
Pi4's. It's going to be that good, IMHO.
If it's good enough for Chromium it's capable of anything!

laurent
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:09 pm

I'm sure Pi tower's folks will add amazing features, but I just hope they will maintain compatibility and reasonable power consumption for the Pi4.

I'm convinced that If moderns personal computers actually means x86/x64, its mainly thanks to compatibility. They survived along many generations of very capable, but (qualified as) exotic competitor's hardware.

The Raspberry Pi IS qualified as a computer, and it's likely to follow the same success story of x86/x64 computers. Only the foundation can ensure this at the future.

The job done by the foundation is already really amazing : we can flash the last Raspbian image on a SD card, and use it on the very first original Raspberry Pi B (with 256 MB of RAM), to the last Raspberry Pi 3B+, including all generations and revisions of hardware between.

I don't know if the foundation will use the VC5 where Anholt already worked on. If it's the case, I really hope it will be compatible with the VC4 of the actual generations of Pis.

jdb
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:33 pm

jbudd wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:16 pm
Pushing slightly at the door marked "Secret" jamesh, do you have a working prototype on your desk yet?
no
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

Heater
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:03 pm

laurent,
I'm convinced that If moderns personal computers actually means x86/x64, its mainly thanks to compatibility. They survived along many generations of very capable, but (qualified as) exotic competitor's hardware.
;
Yes. Intel made the CPU, MS made the OS and application software to run on it. Other vendors joined in. Intel made bigger, faster processors, software vendors made more stuff to run on Intel. And around and around.

It was all based on closed source software and the compatibility of the CPU to run old compiled binary executables. As such, new "exotic" machines did not stand a chance, they could not run all those Intel/DOS/Windows execuatbles.

However, times have changed. The Pi runs Raspbian a derivative of Debian. The whole point of Linux, Free Software and the likes of Debian is to escape from that commercial binary lock in.

As jamesh, Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator, said recently:

"Compilers.

Compilers mean you really don't need to worry about the instruction set at all. So for Intel, ARM, RISC-V, the majority of people who use them don't give a flying whotsit about the ISA."

In short, as long as we can rebuild Raspbian and all our favorite software for whatever machine comes next life is good. No matter what kind of ARM it is, or x86 or whatever.

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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:05 pm

This is all lots of fun--and my thanks to JamesH for allowing it continue (even if in the vein of keeping all the rotten eggs in one basket)--but I have a slightly different concern.

I'm 70. Delay the Pi4B too long an I won't be around to get to enjoy it.

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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:40 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:05 pm
I'm 70. Delay the Pi4B too long an I won't be around to get to enjoy it.
So you'll need a modified telephone box (from Bill & Ted or The Doctor) to help you meet the RPi4B before the rest of us do. You may need a carton of chocolate milk, a Delorean and a flux capacitor to get over the time travel problem.
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Heater
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:57 pm

W. H. Heydt,
I'm 70. Delay the Pi4B too long an I won't be around to get to enjoy it.
It does not matter.

I'm sure you have kept up with progress in technology so far. We soon learn that the next cool thing is tomorrow...

Which kind of blinds us to the amazingness of what we have in our hands today. Most of which we have not wrapped our minds around.

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Burngate
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:52 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:05 pm
I'm 70.
I come here, I feel old.
I visit the in-laws (91 & 92), I feel young.

She complains about just about everything, so I tell her she's still got the Queen's telegram to look forward to.
I doubt Charles will still be doing telegrams by the time I'm due for one, but I tell myself at least I've got the Pi4 to look forward to. And maybe 6, 7, 8, ... 24?

jdb
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:34 pm

Burngate wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:52 pm

I come here, I feel old.
I visit the in-laws (91 & 92), I feel young.

She complains about just about everything, so I tell her she's still got the Queen's telegram to look forward to.
I doubt Charles will still be doing telegrams by the time I'm due for one, but I tell myself at least I've got the Pi4 to look forward to. And maybe 6, 7, 8, ... 24?
There comes a point where we've reached "optimal pi". Bearing in mind the price point, there's only so much silicon and associated non-silicon atoms you can buy for $35 even at ten times the volume we have today. That, plus the power envelope we have to stick within for passive cooling, limits the pile of features we can load on to the credit-card form factor.

The bare board SBC might also not be the best fit for certain industries - which is why we designed the CM as a "do-it-yourself" option for business. Ultimately Pi might evolve into a range of products to fit lightweight desktop/industrial/maker/educational segments - each with the same core system on chip and orbiting peripheral ICs, but different price points and form factors.

tl;dr: the definition of "Raspberry Pi" beyond 5 becomes a bit hazy.
Rockets are loud.
https://astro-pi.org

Will5455
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:01 pm

new line idea! cranberrie pi! for the sour people. it just yells get off my lawn!!
I do strange things and am sometimes the techhead stereotype.
deal with it!

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Re: Pi 4 questions

Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:44 pm

jdb wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:33 pm
jbudd wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 1:16 pm
Pushing slightly at the door marked "Secret" jamesh, do you have a working prototype on your desk yet?
no
If anything like my kids, this could mean it’s in a drawer, on a shelf, sat on a monitor, sat on a PC beside the desk, loaned out to another person, in a bag ready to go home or even on another desk and not the one jamesh is currently sat at.

Not saying my kids would split hairs but I’m sure they where born with built in microscopes :lol:
Need Pi spray - these things are breeding in my house...

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Re: Pi 4 questions

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:59 am

Heater wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:57 pm
Which kind of blinds us to the amazingness of what we have in our hands today. Most of which we have not wrapped our minds around.
I'm pretty amazed at what we've got now. I learned to program on an IBM 1620 Mod I. it could fetch two digits (note: digits, not bytes) at a time from core memory on a clock cycle of 20 microsec., so in modern terms, a 50KHz machine. Shortest instruction took 4 cycles: 80usec. Multiply and divide instruction timings could easily get into the hundreds of *milliseconds*. The one I learned on was almost as big as they came. It has 80K digits of core memory. The machine could only address 100Kdigits. It also had a disk drive cobbled onto it with a capacity of (wait for it) 4Mdigits.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:13 am

Pushing slightly at the door marked "Secret" jamesh, do you have a working prototype on your desk yet?
So if it not on the desk or stuck in a drawer we should probably add 6 months to any time we had in our heads.
Back to Pi3B+ coding :D
I'm 70. Delay the Pi4B too long an I won't be around to get to enjoy it.
I hope to stick around until I can get a Pi Quantum computer ;)

The start of Moore's Laws was a roller coaster, now that is dead, things are getting interesting again.
The tick tock cpu race was just boring.
When the OS's stopped me bit-banging the printer ports PC's got really boring.

Then Eben came along and woke me up, saved me from looking at heading into retirement bored ;)
Still a few years away, maybe in time for Pi 5?
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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Re: Pi 4 questions

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:07 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:13 am
I hope to stick around until I can get a Pi Quantum computer ;)
Now THAT would make backwards compatibility difficult.

echmain
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:10 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:07 am
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:13 am
I hope to stick around until I can get a Pi Quantum computer ;)
Now THAT would make backwards compatibility difficult.

It's both available and not available.

mrreality13
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Location: texas usa

Re: Pi 4 questions

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:22 am

jbudd wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:50 pm
Just imagine how many oil wells and power stations we could dispense with if all of the 200/300 watt PCs currently displaying call centre scripts and other undemanding office tasks were replaced by 10 watt Raspberry Pi 5s.

First you reintroduced children (of all ages) to computing, now save the planet!
lol 2/300--my last rig i built had about 900 watt ps--i switched to lappy's now pi's to save $$$$
remember ,never approach a computer thinking this will only take a minute
~~pi zero w and a 3b+

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 10577
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Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Pi 4 questions

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:28 am

mrreality13 wrote:
Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:22 am
jbudd wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:50 pm
Just imagine how many oil wells and power stations we could dispense with if all of the 200/300 watt PCs currently displaying call centre scripts and other undemanding office tasks were replaced by 10 watt Raspberry Pi 5s.

First you reintroduced children (of all ages) to computing, now save the planet!
lol 2/300--my last rig i built had about 900 watt ps--i switched to lappy's now pi's to save $$$$
Deepnds on the system. Frankly, from a technical standpoint, most business PCs are...poor quality. For a gaming rig with the latest, fastest CPU, graphics card, and scads of RAM...that's why you can buy 1500W PSUs.

laurent
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Re: Pi 4 questions

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:34 am

Heater wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 5:03 pm
As jamesh, Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator, said recently:

"Compilers.

Compilers mean you really don't need to worry about the instruction set at all. So for Intel, ARM, RISC-V, the majority of people who use them don't give a flying whotsit about the ISA."

In short, as long as we can rebuild Raspbian and all our favorite software for whatever machine comes next life is good. No matter what kind of ARM it is, or x86 or whatever.
You're right, Heater. But unfortunately, things may not be that simple for compilers.
You point a good example with Raspbian : 3 generations of instructions set (ARMv6, ARMv7 and ARMv8) and only one compiled (ARMv6). In this case, the compatibility is far more important over the performance loss.
Dealing with many binary formats is possible (like with regular distributions like Debian) but requires resources for maintaining and compiling for each format. It means also less simplicity for end users (who would have to choose the right Raspbian version).

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