Raspberry Pi Roadmap?

[liz]

We're *hoping* to have a final, no-more-tweaks-necessary Model B finished by the end of 2012. Model A is basically ready to go, but the problem is that we have to sacrifice Model B parts to build it, and the demand for Model B is still so large that we can't keep on top of it (looks like it will probably top 200k this month). So we're having to build in more capacity for manufacture before we can start making them so we don't get lynched by people who have been waiting forever for their Model B and then experience further delays.

[JollyRoger]

That's really useful info. I really need more memory on my Pi (I've an early 256Mb model), but I've put off replacing it as I guessed there were more improvements in the pipeline. My birthday's in January, so guess what my prezzie will be!

[SemiLucid]

I too am waiting on revision .3 if there is such a thing. What are the current issues needing to be addressed? I have heard of vagaries surrounding USB being problematic on slashdot?

btw RaTTus adding SATA would probably double the interest in the pi

[jamesh]

TBH there isn't much point in hanging on for a Rev3 - it will only be minor changes to the current device, and not worth the wait.

[fozzy bear]

hello jamesh

You are being a little negative/dismissive here as usual
( check over at the other thread as there is something there you need to think about )
and it is not productive to be negative.

I also know you are trying to be practical with your advice.
Maybe he should just buy a rev 2 Pi B and not hang around for the rev 3
BUT an improved Pi my friend is an improved Pi.
The Pi is so cheap I would buy a rev 2 and then also buy a rev 3
as well. It's totally worth it and even at a higher unit price.

Liz ( and others ) is/are totally realistic here about what is going on with Pi demand. There is actually a far larger issue at stake here
and I wonder if anyone here has even woken up yet to this reality ?

If you are interested I will fill you in.

fozzy

?8O)}

From little things BIG things grow ( mighty oaks and even razzle berries ).

[liz]

James is quite right - there isn't any substantive point in holding out for a rev3, because the tweaks will be very minimal. James, like the rest of us is neither negative nor positive: he's pragmatic. The Foundation wouldn't have accomplished anything without pragmatism. We don't want mods who promise things we can't deliver or who don't tell it like it is.

[fozzy bear]

I agree with you Liz.

Maybe using the word negative was simply too strong or the wrong choice of word.
I do think however he was being a little dismissive though.

Why ? Because the rev3 , however minimal the changes
must be considered an improvement to the product line
or you wouldn't even be bothering with it.

When the rev 3 comes out I will buy one.
I already have a rev2.

I also present the facts as well and am heavily into
saying it like it is
( I also support the foundations' philosophy
and price points for the Pi, it's just that the global
resellers don't necessarily support these things ).

These are the facts as I see them.

fozzy

?8O)}

From little things BIG things grow ( mighty oaks and even razzle berries ).

[SemiLucid]

I await these seemingly insignificant updates with baited breath. I agree with fozzy bear, an improved Pi is an improved Pi.

[wayner]

If the Pi follows Moore's law then we would expect substantial improvements every couple of years for the same price. Is it really unrealistic to expect a 1.5GHz Pi with 512MB of memory by the end of 2013? Presumably there are SoCs with these types of specs that should roll down the cost curve over the next year.

[toxibunny]

If the Pi follows Moore's law then we would expect substantial improvements every couple of years for the same price. Is it really unrealistic to expect a 1.5GHz Pi with 512MB of memory by the end of 2013? Presumably there are SoCs with these types of specs that should roll down the cost curve over the next year.

The foundation has it's own aims, and aren't necessarily subject to moore's law. It's certainly not unreasonable though, to expect *someone* to produce a similarish ARM based device with improved specs at a roughly comparable price. They'll be doing it for profit though, and there almost certainly won't be the same sort of community buzz/support...

[wayner]

True, the other option would be to keep the hardware as it is today but to reduce the price. But computer hardware prettty much always gets faster for the same price or cheaper for the same processing power.

[liz]

If the Pi follows Moore's law <snip>

Thing is, I think we're kind of reaching the bottom of that curve now. Moore's Law can't continue forever, and we're definitely seeing a slowing. There's going to be a point where it's not axiomatic any more, and I think it's coming pretty soon when you're talking about this price of hardware. (2TB hard drives for your desktop: not so much.)

[jamesh]

Compare the Raspi to cheap digital cameras. They haven't got cheaper, they have just got better. There is a lower limit that you can make stuff for - the cost of manufacture and shipping, even if the parts are free. So I look on $25/$35 as pretty much the bottom of the price curve. So that means Moores applies solely to performance in this case. So you would expect faster increased capacity Pi's over time. BUT, that way leads to fragmentation and increased maintenance and support costs. None of which would be useful at the moment.

So whilst a souped up Raspi would be feasible in the near future (but not right now at the same price point), it would not be advisable.

[wayner]

It depends what you are using it for. I plan to use one of my Pis for Raspbmc and so far the performance has been kind of slow. So a faster Pi with more memory and or dual cores would be hugely beneficial in this application.

[jamesh]

It depends what you are using it for. I plan to use one of my Pis for Raspbmc and so far the performance has been kind of slow. So a faster Pi with more memory and or dual cores would be hugely beneficial in this application.

But then, that's not what the Raspi was designed for....so I guess you might be better off with a different device. Or use a simpler skin. Note that the Roku2 uses the same processor as the Raspi, and that does OK.

[wayner]

The Raspi may not have been designed to be an HTPC but given the fact that the volume of posts on the Raspbmc forum is very high I would say that there is a very significant number of people using it in this context.

[W. H. Heydt]

When the rev 3 comes out I will buy one.
I already have a rev2.

That's probably part of why there are still shipping delays and the Model A has had to be put off...

(And, yeah, I have several Rev. 1s, both Version 0002 and 0003, 1 Rev. 2, with another due to arrive this week. And I'll order a Rev. 3 when they come out. Beyond that....I have to think about what versions I want to use for my primary use of multiple Pis.)

[W. H. Heydt]

If the Pi follows Moore's law then we would expect substantial improvements every couple of years for the same price. Is it really unrealistic to expect a 1.5GHz Pi with 512MB of memory by the end of 2013? Presumably there are SoCs with these types of specs that should roll down the cost curve over the next year.

Think of this way... For any given socket version used by either Intel or AMD, there are only so many different processors that are electrically and logically compatible. This can be as small a difference as that between the original AMD Athlons (939 pins) and Opterons (940 pins).

Unless you can find an SoC that is contact-for-contact *identical* to a BCM2835, you can't switch to using that other SoC without a complete PCB redesign. The only "hope" for a 1.5GHz Pi is a 1.5GHz variant of the BCM2835 unless and until a complete new Pi is developed. Don't hold your breath waiting.

[mahjongg]

The Raspi may not have been designed to be an HTPC but given the fact that the volume of posts on the Raspbmc forum is very high I would say that there is a very significant number of people using it in this context.

That could be true, but as servicing these people isn't the direct intention of the people of the RPF, they still would look mostly to what's in the interest of their supposed user group (kids) first and foremost.
Concretely this would mean that they would not abandon the current SoC just because another one would be "better" for the HTPC crowd. Expect the base of the current PI not to change for at least a few years. That doesn't mean that within the current concept no improvements are to be expected, but it will be within the current concept, not a radical change of course. Remember the RPF isn't a commercial enterprise, but its also the reason the device does exist in the first place at this price point.

[pygmy_giant]

I'm beginning to question whether the foundation has succeded in it stated aducational goals. 90% of posts and seemingly half the news stories are from or about geeky hackers not school kids. Are we likely to see a push on the educational market in the near future?

[williamhbell]

I'm beginning to question whether the foundation has succeded in it stated aducational goals. 90% of posts and seemingly half the news stories are from or about geeky hackers not school kids. Are we likely to see a push on the educational market in the near future?

Hi,

That depends on teachers being encouraged to use the device. The Computing At Schools (CAS) and nesta.org.uk are very enthusiastic, but are still rolling out support and advice to teachers. It looks likely that the Raspberry Pi usage in the UK education sector may pick up throughout this year. In France and Switzerland the uptake in schools has been much more sluggish, since the curriculum has not changed and the media coverage is approximately zero. Our local French coordinator is very enthusiastic, but there is a limit to what can be achieved without a curriculum change. Hopefully, someone can encourage the CEO of Google to complain about other European education systems too. A bit of French media coverage would not go a miss either.

Best regards,

Will

[pygmy_giant]

If I were part of the foundation I would seriously look into producing or comissioning supporting educational resources

[williamhbell]

Hi pygmy_giant,

Sounds like you are looking for,
http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1116
which is presumably aimed at the educational release.

Regards,

Will

[pygmy_giant]

Good idea, but it has not progressed very far since April - why doesn't the project leader ask permission to plunder the MagPi - there are quite a few good tutorials in there. Maybe the MagPi team could consider eventually collating these into a book...?

[williamhbell]

Hi pygmy_giant,

A fully indexed MagPi magazine does not really need to be plundered, since it can be easily installed via the Raspberry Pi App store. We (the MagPi) are working with CAS to reach more teachers. The MagPi is already listed in the CAS resource list and should be on the back page of January's SwitchedOn CAS newsletter.

Regards,

Will