fjr
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design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:36 pm

There is the raspberry pi 3 and many soc arm computers having a similar form factor.
https://www.armbian.com/download/

Has the raspberry pi company considered designing an universal notebook
cabinet able to accept various arm soc computers? Either being a 7" or 10" notebook.

If the design would be kept simple such that it could be assembled and disassembled with
a screwdriver then people could build their own notebook. Pick the display, keyboard,
touchpad etc they prefer.

I do not say, the raspberry pi company should manufacture the cabinet. Instead
it should finance and facilitate the making of the cabinet's cad files. Making
the cad files open source would enable notebook cabinet manufacturers and everybody
else to improve the design.

If the cabinet would be low priced it would become an option for people having
little means, children and schools.

Who in the raspberry pi company can you write about this?

https://accounts.pi-top.com/products/pi-top/
I read the keyboard is heinous and I assume the
design is not open source. But it is something
like it I describe above.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:40 pm

Two fundamental issues here...

1. Such a design would do better to use the Compute Module.

2. Why would the RPT design something that could be used with some random SBC other than a Pi that they don't derive income from? Especially if--according to your post--the idea is give away a full set of designs to build it?

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Imperf3kt
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:38 pm

The raspberry Pi foundation hasn't done it, but third parties have.
https://www.pi-top.com
Although you appear to have already discovered that.
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fjr
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm

Such a design would do better to use the Compute Module.
I do not agree. There are many more raspberry pi 3 form factor soc computers
than core board form factor soc computers. Core board form factor computers
appears to be more expensive.
I am not sure the ports of core board form factor soc computers is
standardized. Many raspberry pi form factor soc computers have
the same ports.
Why would the RPT design something that could be used with some random SBC other than a Pi that they don't derive income from? Especially if--according to your post--the idea is give away a full set of designs to build it?
You should inform yourself on why raspberry pi was founded. It is a charity. Upton
concluded that the selling price of a full functioning computer should not
stop children and schools from getting to learn about computers and
software. Should raspberry pi argue like you, it would be against raspberry pi's intention
of enabling as many as possible to interact with computers.

If raspberry should decide to provide described notebook cabinet, there are 2 scenarios.
Raspberry pi can have it designed such that it accommodates a rp 3. What will
happen is people favoring other soc computers will try to make the notebook
cabinet accept their chosen soc computer. Likely people have done that about the
pi top.
If raspberry pi designs the notebook cabinet such that it accepts many different
soc computers, they show it is not about rp 3. It is about peoples access to
computers.

Should a total price for notebook cabinet and other hardware
not get below 100usd?

I have gathered some open source notebook cabinet cad files.
gitlab.com/armcabinet/notebook

https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson ... 3b23557d20
I got aware raspberry pi has paid 22 million usd to advance computer
teaching in schools. If these are the figures raspberry pi are dealing with, then paying
for designing an open source universal soc computer notebook cabinet should be
within raspberry pi's scope.

Or in case of a crowd funding raspberry pi could match payments.

If you are a raspberry pi official and reading this, please comment.
Last edited by fjr on Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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scruss
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:47 pm

They'd be spending money to produce a very lumpy and slow Chromebook clone. Possibly even an OLPC clone. It would have to be cheaper than the bulk Chromebook deals that school boards purchase, and with any keyboard and screen options available, that would push the price sky-high.

I don't think there's as much demand for this as you might think. Open hardware sells some units, but cheap hardware sells a hundred times more.
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:56 pm

fjr wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm
Such a design would do better to use the Compute Module.
I do not agree. There are many more raspberry pi 3 form factor soc computers
than core board form factor soc computers. Core board form factor computers
appears to be more expensive.
I am not sure the ports of core board form factor soc computers is
standardized. Many raspberry pi form factor soc computers have
the same ports.
Why would the RPT design something that could be used with some random SBC other than a Pi that they don't derive income from? Especially if--according to your post--the idea is give away a full set of designs to build it?
You should inform yourself on why raspberry pi was founded. It is a charity. Upton
concluded that the selling price of a full functioning computer should not
stop children and schools from getting to learn about computers and
software. Should raspberry pi argue like you, it would be against raspberry pi's intention
of enabling as many as possible to interact with computers.

If raspberry should decide to provide described notebook cabinet, there are 2 scenarios.
Raspberry pi can have it designed such that it accommodates a rp 3. What will
happen is people favoring other soc computers will try to make the notebook
cabinet accept their chosen soc computer. Likely people have done that about the
pi top.
If raspberry pi designs the notebook cabinet such that it accepts many different
soc computers, they show it is not about rp 3. It is about peoples access to
computers.

Should a total price for notebook cabinet and other hardware
not get below 100usd?

I have gathered some open source notebook cabinet cad files.
gitlab.com/armcabinet/notebook

https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson ... 3b23557d20
I got aware raspberry pi has paid 22 million usd to advance computer
teaching in schools. If these are the figures raspberry pi are dealing with, then paying
for designing an open source universal soc computer notebook cabinet should be
within raspberry pi's scope.

Or in case of a crowd funding raspberry pi could match payments.

If you are a raspberry pi official and reading this, please comment.

Why not design and market yourself if it is such a much needed product no one can live without.

https://www.pine64.org/?page_id=3707
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

W. H. Heydt
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:15 pm

fjr wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm
Such a design would do better to use the Compute Module.
I do not agree. There are many more raspberry pi 3 form factor soc computers
than core board form factor soc computers. Core board form factor computers
appears to be more expensive.
I am not sure the ports of core board form factor soc computers is
standardized. Many raspberry pi form factor soc computers have
the same ports.
Using the CM series allows for some advantages, such as taking up less space, permitting a thinner, lighter unit (if that is desired). It would also mean that you could adjust the processor capability/power requirements/cost/on board storage just by which model of CM you choose. It would also allow --potentially--for future upgrades.
Why would the RPT design something that could be used with some random SBC other than a Pi that they don't derive income from? Especially if--according to your post--the idea is give away a full set of designs to build it?
You should inform yourself on why raspberry pi was founded. It is a charity. Upton
concluded that the selling price of a full functioning computer should not
stop children and schools from getting to learn about computers and
software. Should raspberry pi argue like you, it would be against raspberry pi's intention
of enabling as many as possible to interact with computers.
I am well aware of the goals of the RPF, but I'm also aware of the reasons for the existence of the RPT. In order for the RPF to meet it's goals, it needs income. It gets that income from the royalties on items designed by the RPT. The RPT needs income to support the people that design all those lovely Pis and Pi related devices that people are buying so avidly.

It may not be desirable in all ways to have the devices we want emerging from a profit-driven system, but that's the economy in which we are operating, and the RPF+RPT are making use of it in very effective ways to simultaneously make the stuff we want available and still fulfill the educational goals for which the RPF was established.
If raspberry should decide to provide described notebook cabinet, there are 2 scenarios.
Raspberry pi can have it designed such that it accommodates a rp 3. What will
happen is people favoring other soc computers will try to make the notebook
cabinet accept their chosen soc computer. Likely people have done that about the
pi top.
Can you cite any actual examples of people putting non-Pi SBCs in a PiTop? I'm not disputing that it is probably possible, but has it been done in practice?
I have gathered some open source notebook cabinet cad files.
gitlab.com/armcabinet/notebook
So...when are you going to complete the design you want and make it freely available?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/parmyolson ... 3b23557d20
I got aware raspberry pi has paid 22 million usd to advance computer
teaching in schools. If these are the figures raspberry pi are dealing with, then paying
for designing an open source universal soc computer notebook cabinet should be
within raspberry pi's scope.
That is a very strange argument. Just because the RPF is a multi-million dollar "business" doesn't mean that they should be spending money on specific designs to be given away. It may fall within their scope, but that doesn't mean it is necessarily a good idea, or even a good use of their limited resources.
Or in case of a crowd funding raspberry pi could match payments.
"Could", yes. "Should" or "will"...doubtful. Also bear in mind that the RPF can't just give away money to any random project that strikes someone's fancy. That would get them in trouble with the UK tax authorities.
If you are a raspberry pi official and reading this, please comment.
That is also unlikely

Heater
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:28 pm

The last thing we need is for the Pi Foundation to waste money on designing a notebook/laptop container for a Pi. The resulting device would be a miserably poor notebook/laptop. Not many would want it. There is no money in it.

The Pine Book guys are even honest enough to say on their site that the Pine Book will not be a substitute for a "proper" notebook and will require tinkering and hacking. Wow, with the honesty I might just order one. Anyway it would be hard to match a price like that, the profits would be tiny.

k-pi
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:44 pm

I don't see a need, I understand that you would like a RPi3 laptop, but did you buy a PiCeed when it was available(?), if not why not, then think about all the other people who would like a RPi laptop who also didn't buy one. :D

They are too expensive to produce, & outside the remit of the foundation.

By all means go ahead & produce one, maybe you'll get rich, but I doubt it. :lol:

I'd like an ARM powered laptop too, but I've got enough ordinary ones at present, so even I won't be buying one for the foreseeable future. 8-)

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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:10 pm

fjr wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:36 pm
Has the raspberry pi company considered designing an universal notebook cabinet able to accept various arm soc computers? Either being a 7" or 10" notebook.
Possibly. It has been suggested that virtually anything a member of the community can think of will have almost certainly been considered by the people behind the Pi. But if they haven't I am sure your suggestion will reach them.

Whether they will produce such a thing, no one but they would be able to say. It will mostly be an issue of whether they foresee a good return on investment in doing it, and how it fits in with any other plans and projects they have.

The RPF and RPT are well known for not revealing any plans in advance so I would expect the best you could expect is; "it's something we might think about".

Therefore it sounds like a good opportunity for someone who does think it's something useful, desirable, better than any other similar options, which would give a good return on investment, to jump right in there and do it themselves. There's quite a thriving third-party accessories market for the Pi, and this could be a worthy addition to it.

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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:23 pm

hippy wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:10 pm
The RPF and RPT are well known for not revealing any plans in advance so I would expect the best you could expect is; "it's something we might think about".
Based on my experience reading the forums for on-line games, I'd advise not to say that much. Whenever game developers make a statement like that about a player suggestion, said player tends to get very upset when the requested feature doesn't show up in the next update.

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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:54 pm

We have a pretty solid roadmap for some years. It has some interesting stuff in it. I don't think we are planning on making a notebook that takes slot in Pi's though. I doubt there is much money to be made in it. That's my personal opinion of course, the management team have their own ideas!

There are third party devices like the Pitop, which fill that part of the niche.

As someone above has noted, its very unusual for a suggestion on here to have not already been thought of by the trading team. We all have fairly good imaginations!
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:08 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:54 pm
As someone above has noted, its very unusual for a suggestion on here to have not already been thought of by the trading team. We all have fairly good imaginations!
Having met Eben Upton, I would be very surprised if anyone commenting here could come up with an idea for something that he *hasn't* already considered...and that's without taking into account the very sharp minds of the people surrounding him.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:26 pm

In my few years here, I have seen only one single suggestion / request that was confirmed as having not been considered by the Pi foundation already.

It's not very often it happens, but it does happen.

Of course, something this simple is bound to have been thought of...
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Tzarls
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:50 pm

Such "cabinet" exists:

http://www.wawaperu.org/

I've seen it working with a Raspberry Pi and at least one iother kind of SBC.

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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:31 am

fjr wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:36 pm
Has the raspberry pi company considered designing an universal notebook cabinet, able to accept various arm soc computers? Either being a 7" or 10" notebook.
Probably, and I'm sure they decided it was a bad idea.

While there may be a very small niche market for such a device, there are already solutions available (no need to reinvent the wheel).

The problem is, building a Pi laptop will cost far more than most people expect, and perform far worse than less expensive notebooks that are available. There are affordable Chromebooks that handily stomp the performance of a Pi laptop (and they also run Linux & Android apps).

If you want build a portable Pi computer (as opposed to an actual laptop), there are some affordable options, like cases for the official touch-screen which mount the Pi in back, or using a VESA type Pi case to mount your Pi behind a spare monitor you already own. Either of those would be something you could easily transport to coding events or computer clubs.
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Gavinmc42
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:08 am

If the design would be kept simple such that it could be assembled and disassembled with
a screwdriver then people could build their own notebook. Pick the display, keyboard,
touchpad etc they prefer.
One Laptop per Child?
Not a new idea.
http://one.laptop.org/
You want a customizable version of that?

There is nothing stopping you from designing that and releasing the source file to us.
Mind you, we will all need 3D printers, so gets us one of those first.

We will need lots of them so lets design it as sustainable.
Plastic from Hemp oil and reinforced with carbon fiber made from hemp fibers and batteries made from carbonized hemp hurds?
Hmm, actually that would be a fun project, less wasteful than growing trees, cutting them up to make wood cases.
Want a new case design?
Just compost the last version. every case comes with fertilizer and hemp seeds to grow the next one

Seen some bamboo mouse and keyboards, wooden key caps can be got online.

Plenty of better keyboard designs, just do a google for "mechanical keyboards DIY"
The old IBM keyboards are made so well that lots are still around and in demand 3 decades later.
Why not design new ones that will last 50-100 years?
People's hands won't change that much in that time, unless we all go cyborg and have implants?
We still use a keyboard layout that was designed in 1875.
Has the raspberry pi company considered designing an universal notebook
Probably, in fact it probably comes up all the time at RPT, the engineering part of RPF.
After all they are all mostly engineers, designing stuff is their bread and butter.
But they still are only a smallish company, it may even be on a product roadmap penciled in for 2025?.

In the meantime opportunity exists for someone to do this now.

Laser cut keyboard arrangements, bags of keyswitches and caps, USB Arduino.
Wire and soldering Iron, go for it.
It would make a nice project for kids to learn soldering on, no need for PCBs which restricts designs.
Wonder if Front Panel Designer has Cherry key cutouts in the library?

Desktop waterjet cutter could make this out of metal, brass for antiseptic qualities?
Stainless, Titanium, wood? Go full custom, anodized aluminum in any colour.
Custom arrangement with just a cut, milled, punched key plate/s, the rest DIY?
Is there a service doing this already?
Pimoroni getting a waterjet cutter, Element 14, RS offer this service?
Come on Ben Heck, show us how. Split Ergo first please :D

The display is where I see the issue, there is only one official display.
New tech like ClearInk will have daylight displays soon?
In the meantime Pi-Top is close, design a better keyboard for it?

We now have a mouse and keyboard from the RPF, all we need next is a screen?
Then we have standard parts that can be re-cased.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:10 pm

this is going nowhere, so locking.

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mahjongg
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Re: design of a generic raspberry pi 3 form factor open source notebook cabinet?

Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:10 pm

Banned the OP for a couple of months or so, for his behaviour, (threatening a moderator).
@fjr Remember you are only a guest here, you have no right to demand anything. :evil:

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