alphanumeric
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:39 pm

I can see myself buying at least one at some point. Also liking the Pi logo where the Windows key would be. :D

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bensimmo
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:51 pm

Needs a PiZero built in, just because.



.. and I like number pads.
I'm not an accountant.
I do use excel a lot though

alphanumeric
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:00 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:51 pm
Needs a PiZero built in, just because.



.. and I like number pads.
I'm not an accountant.
I do use excel a lot though
How about a compute module? ;)

Thinking about it, a Pi Foundation touch screen with a compute module plugged in on the back side might be cool. 8-)

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:15 am

davidcoton wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:31 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:36 pm
my preferred trackball is the Logitech Trqackman Marble.
Trqackman? A mouse crossed with a duck? :lol:
Thanks for catching that. I've fixed it.

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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:17 am

jahboater wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:37 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:36 pm

I suppose it all depends on what your criteria are for a preferred data entry device. My wife and I use Unicomp keyboards.
I have one of those on a PC. It is very fast to type on but also very very noisy.
No argument there.
Its great having the "Windows" key with the Pi logo.
We actually use the variant that doesn't have a Windows key at all.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:03 am

I started with the Model F 83key IBM, function keys on the left side where they belong for left handed people like me.
Good for Wordstar? So long ago I don't remember which software made use of those function keys.
Did the added number keys come out just for Excel users?

Unicomp took over the IBM keyboard business and yes very noisy but probably the best keyboard action ever made.
Dusted off my old AT model M and now trying to find a keyboard cable adapter for it.
I had forgotten how heavy they are.

Cherry keyswitches are not bad and come in so many versions I would not know where to start, quiet or noisy?
DIY keyboards in kit forms are around and I'm getting the bug to make my own.
I prefer the 60% or less type ones, no need for function or numpads.

Since the PI's came out I have probably acquired 20 cheap keyboards and mice and none last or feel as good as my memory of that old noisy Model F.
With Arduino USB HID software, time to make a tiny one just for me and an industrial strength gamer for the kid who destroys them.

All that said I will probably get a few Pi mouse/keyboards as I know how long it takes me to make anything ;)
I made one for the ZX81, decades ago, real key switches and Letterset letter and numbers, it was fun but took 2 months.
Time for an DIY ergonomic designed version just for me.

I like the idea of an embedded trackball as I miss them especially the Thumball.
Did some googling yesterday after seeing the Pi keyboard, seems like the trick to diy keyboards is the key switch mounting plate.
Would laser cut acrylic work if extra support added?
But since I am going through a Steam Punk phase right now perhaps CNC brass?
Thanks Datamancer for the inspiration, many will miss you.

Too big for my crowded desk but an interesting journey into keyboard land.
https://shop.keyboard.io/
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

cspan
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:45 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:36 pm
I suppose it all depends on what your criteria are for a preferred data entry device. My wife and I use Unicomp keyboards. I should note that, at her peak, my wife's typing speed exceed 100 wpm, so she's rather picky about what constitutes a good keyboard.
I also ponied up for a Unicomp keyboard a few years back. Yes, it's noisy, as others have noted. But I could really type fast and accurately on it, and I was hoping it would prove as virtually indestructible (or indefatigable) as the old IBM ones I used in the early days of my career.

Unfortunately it started missing or duplicating key-presses after about 3 years. I cleaned it out but to no avail. It went to a high school CS teacher who wanted a little fix-it project for his students. No idea if it they got it working right again.

Wasn't cost-effective for me, though who can put a price on the superior typing experience, right? Still, I expected more. My next keyboard was about the cheapest thing imaginable - an Inland from Microcenter, well under $10. Maybe under $5. It has been good for about a year thus far, but the "N" and "M" key labels are wearing off. Interestingly, that's also true of the "N" on my 6-yr-old laptop, running RPD. I'm surprised the wear is there and not along the home row.

I use a K400r with my Pi. Only annoyance is that I had to do a firmware update through my Windows computer. Really wish such things didn't require a Windows or Apple computer lifeline. On the positive side, it's nice and compact, handling keyboard and mouse functions through only 1 USB port. I particularly like the "left-click" button that's in the upper left corner of the keyboard. It allows you to hold the keyboard in both hands (say, if it's not on a table/desktop), doing trackpad mouse movements with your right thumb, and clicking (selecting) with your left thumb. Balances it better on your lap.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:37 am

Unfortunately it started missing or duplicating key-presses after about 3 years. I cleaned it out but to no avail. It went to a high school CS teacher who wanted a little fix-it project for his students. No idea if it they got it working right again.
The way those old IBM keyboards were made does not led to easy keyboard repairs :(

So I am thinking about Cherry switch based ones but there are other switch options too.
Turns out keyboards and their users are very picky individuals.
I got my first gesture sensor this week, can I ditch the keyboard?
That is the great thing about Pi's it lowers the threshold to experimenting with new or even old things.
But I will still get one of the Pi keyboards, just because I am a bit of a Pi fanboy and I can never have enough keyboards.
They tend to wear out in my household.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

jahboater
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:19 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:37 am
So I am thinking about Cherry switch based ones but there are other switch options too.

They tend to wear out in my household.
Cherry switches are rated for 50 million presses now I think.
And there is a great choice of switch characteristics to suit your preference.
I use the blues because they are supposed to be best for typing.

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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:39 am

cspan wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:45 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:36 pm
I suppose it all depends on what your criteria are for a preferred data entry device. My wife and I use Unicomp keyboards. I should note that, at her peak, my wife's typing speed exceed 100 wpm, so she's rather picky about what constitutes a good keyboard.
I also ponied up for a Unicomp keyboard a few years back. Yes, it's noisy, as others have noted. But I could really type fast and accurately on it, and I was hoping it would prove as virtually indestructible (or indefatigable) as the old IBM ones I used in the early days of my career.

Unfortunately it started missing or duplicating key-presses after about 3 years. I cleaned it out but to no avail. It went to a high school CS teacher who wanted a little fix-it project for his students. No idea if it they got it working right again.
Odd... The Unicomp k/b I'm typing this on is something in excess of 10 years old, and it has never had any problems.

SimplePiMan
Posts: 2
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:00 pm

Unofficial keyboard and mouse, but official Pi stickers.
IMG_1138.jpg
IMG_1138.jpg (252.87 KiB) Viewed 733 times

drgeoff
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:23 pm

Looks like the RPi one and https://www.trust.com/en/product/21564- ... blet-phone come off the same production line.

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PeterO
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:11 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:36 pm
And since the point has been raised, my preferred trackball is the Logitech Trackman Marble.
I have 5 of these :-) Can't be doing with mice these days :-)

On my Mint-19 machines I add the lines below to /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf to enable scroll wheel functionality (I've not tried this on a PI).

Code: Select all

Section "InputClass"
        Identifier      "Marble Mouse"
        MatchProduct    "Logitech USB Trackball"
        Driver          "libinput"
        Option          "ButtonMapping" "1 2 3 4 5 6 7 2 9"
        Option          "ScrollMethod" "button"
        Option          "ScrollButton" "9"
EndSection

Idea came from https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Lo ... rble_Mouse

PeterO
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alphanumeric
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:39 am

I'm seeing the English UK version for sale from a couple of retailers. Haven't been able to find an English US version though? Are there plans for one?

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procount
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:39 am

Why is there no Insert key?
It seems to be disappearing from a lot of keyboards. Does no-one use it anymore?
PINN - NOOBS with the extras... https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=142574

jahboater
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:54 am

procount wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:39 am
Why is there no Insert key?
It seems to be disappearing from a lot of keyboards. Does no-one use it anymore?
I use it.
Hmmm

jamesh
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:55 am

drgeoff wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:23 pm
Looks like the RPi one and https://www.trust.com/en/product/21564- ... blet-phone come off the same production line.
Convergent evolution. Ours is a custom designed case.

And I also use insert, which is why I don't get on with the new keyboard. That and I poured a load of Red Bull in my prototype that I was using for testing...
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k-pi
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:19 pm

procount wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:39 am
Why is there no Insert key?
It seems to be disappearing from a lot of keyboards. Does no-one use it anymore?
It is definitely used to mark files for an action in mc, so must have it! :D

And I also use insert, which is why I don't get on with the new keyboard
I'm so glad I didn't rush to buy one, I need the insert key for use in mc. 8-)

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:23 pm

k-pi wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:19 pm
procount wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:39 am
Why is there no Insert key?
It seems to be disappearing from a lot of keyboards. Does no-one use it anymore?
It is definitely used to mark files for an action in mc, so must have it! :D

And I also use insert, which is why I don't get on with the new keyboard
I'm so glad I didn't rush to buy one, I need the insert key for use in mc. 8-)
There's always Ctrl + T

k-pi
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:26 pm

Mebe, but it is much easier to just press insert. ;)

Heater
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:59 pm

jamesh,
Convergent evolution.
Quite so.

I've noticed that everything is converging on unusable recently.

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pi-anazazi
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Location: EU

Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:12 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:11 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:36 pm
And since the point has been raised, my preferred trackball is the Logitech Trackman Marble.
I have 5 of these :-) Can't be doing with mice these days :-)

On my Mint-19 machines I add the lines below to /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/40-libinput.conf to enable scroll wheel functionality (I've not tried this on a PI).
...
PeterO
I solved this by buying some of those:

https://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Orbit ... B002OOWB3O

Won't use anything else in the meantime :-)
Kind regards

anazazi

mob-i-l
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Re: Layout of new official keyboard

Wed Apr 03, 2019 4:18 pm

Can Fn+Z on the US keyboard work as the key left of Z on the other keyboards? (The US keyboard seems to have one less key.) The Z key works like this on my Eee PC 900 with Nordic keyboard layout.

The official Raspberry Pi keyboard doesn’t have Insert. Is there a way to type Insert using e.g. Fn+Delete?

It doesn’t have the menu-key, but I can get that function by pressing Shift+F10. Fn+Ctrl-Right could perhaps be the menu key, or Fn+Alt-Right.

Does Fn send a scan code or is Fn+key interpreted by the keyboard? The former case would be more flexible, but the latter would make the keyboard work with more operating systems.

I made a video about the keyboard layouts of the official Raspberry Pi keyboard:
https://youtu.be/fJMzEnR9vdc
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