hippy
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:20 pm

LTolledo wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:54 am
all these talk about "...I want this....", "... would like to have this....", etc

...without committing to investing financially and technically....

you all just go in circles... on and on... in the end it just boils down to:

".... you want something done.... you have to do it yourself....."

Happy New Year!
I don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting things they could not invest in to bring about or could not bring about themselves, don't even have the means or capability to bring about themselves.

Just because someone cannot deliver world peace or find a cure for cancer doesn't mean its not valid to want either or both.

And not having a BoM or not having analysed and assessed the cost doesn't mean it's not a valid desire.

Wanting something is entirely separate to the cost of having it, the possibility or viability of achieving it, and even getting it.

Resorting to "if you want it, you must do it" mostly amounts to trying to shut down that desire.

Heater
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:54 pm

Noting wrong with expressing desires. Most companies will listen to their customers and try to provide what they want within reason. Mostly one listens to customers by providing what they are actually paying for. If they are not buying it you have to do something else or go bust.

However our OP started with "It would be very important to have..."

Hmm... Important to whom?

That is a lot more strident than "I think it would be neat if...."

Personally I'm happy that the Pi has no on board flash. It would add expense and complication for the users. Most of whom don't need such a thing. There are plenty of other boards targeted at embedded systems that do have such features when I need them.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

hippy
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:01 pm

Burngate wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:55 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:59 am
... but some people do not understand whatever you inform them, hence why we have had regular posts of this nature over the last 8 years.
Are you sure it's the same person not understanding, each time?
Or does one person come along, make a suggestion, get educated, and stand aside, ready for the next in line to do the same? Rinse & Repeat, ad infinitum?

There are 7 billion people on this planet, all needing education ... and that's just one planet in Known Space.
And it's not always the people asking who need educating; and is it really educating or simply dismissing ?

Informing those asking for something that those who provide know best and telling those asking to go away is not educating. It's just telling people to know their place.

There are many things in the world people have wanted which they were told they could not have, were told it's not possible to have, would be undesirable, too difficult, too costly, even insulting to ask for, shooed away.

But perseverance, keeping on asking, refusing to accept 'that's how it is and will be', explaining the benefits, presenting the arguments, led to changes in attitudes and perceptions, and they eventually got their way, got what they had wanted.

Wanting something for a Pi might not be in the same league as ending slavery, giving women the vote, or creating a democracy, but, on a smaller scale, it's little different.

jahboater
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:08 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:54 pm
Personally I'm happy that the Pi has no on board flash. It would add expense and complication for the users. Most of whom don't need such a thing. There are plenty of other boards targeted at embedded systems that do have such features when I need them.
100% agree.
When the on-board memory dies - what happens then?

The Odroid C2 has both removable eMMC and micro SD. You can boot from either.
When the eMMC module fails, just clip on a new one.

I use eMMC nn the C2 because it is supposed to be faster with better wear leveling.
But TBH the micro SD cards on the Pi are 100% reliable, last forever, and with the new A class cards, perform well.
Happy with the Pi status quo.

mfa298
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:05 pm

hippy wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:20 pm
I don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting things they could not invest in to bring about or could not bring about themselves, don't even have the means or capability to bring about themselves.
...
And not having a BoM or not having analysed and assessed the cost doesn't mean it's not a valid desire.
My only issue there is when people say it's a simple design change without realising all the work that actually has to go into such a simple change. I wouldn't necessarily expect a sample design to have done all the things I listed in depth but they're all points that are worth considering (eg. at least have a ball park figure for the costs of major components). Similarly it's also useful to know something about the detail of designing a PCB (layouts, types of trace etc.) to avoid any obvious issues that would make a design unworkable (there's a couple of things in the "proposal of simple design" I replied to that might not be particularly ideal).

Similar to what JamesH said, it's all about education. People will always come along with ideas, sometimes they might only be dreams but some might evolve into a workable design. Helping people learn about the things to consider is part of that education.

Whilst I'm not sure onboard eMMC is that useful for the masses one thing I've seen on a couple of Allwinner based boards is a small SPI flash chip (only a few MB worth) that can hold some of the boot code (usually just u-boot in those cases). This provides a means of starting a variety of boot options via something that can be updated by the end user (it wasn't programmed by default on the device I have so fell back to loading u-boot from the SD card - similar to how all the boot stuff on the Pi is loaded from SD). After programming u-boot onto the flash it allows me to boot from a variety of storage devices (usb/sd) or over the network, future updates to u-boot might add other options and the flash can be updated if those become required. An additional benefit is there can be some output from u-boot even without any other bootable storage so you can see somethings working.

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thagrol
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:57 pm

mfa298 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:05 pm

My only issue there is when people say it's a simple design change without realising all the work that actually has to go into such a simple change.
That's the point I've been trying to make. Simple often isn't. Especially on a complex product like a Pi and where any sort of regulatory compliance is needed.
Arguing with strangers on the internet since 1993.

Heater
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:19 pm

hippy,
And it's not always the people asking who need educating; and is it really educating or simply dismissing ?
I'll go for dismissing. Nothing wrong with that. Short and sweet. Avoids any time wasting. Everybody has ideas. 99% of them can be dismissed after a moments reflection. Most of them are repetitions of the same idea that has been dismissed already.
Informing those asking for something that those who provide know best and telling those asking to go away is not educating. It's just telling people to know their place.
That is putting it a bit hard.

I think a lot depends on the way the idea is phrased. Sometimes ideas are posed as a question for discussion. They are an invitation for debate and education. Perhaps both ways around.

Sometimes they are posed as demands, in this case: "It would be very important to have...". They are stated as "obvious" facts. They invite dismissal not education.

The world is tough. Dismissal is normal.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:03 pm

Will5455 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:04 pm
I have been on this forum probably about a year and this is not the first time I've seen this kind of thinking. Look at the sticky thread named rpi4.
However much I would love faster storage I would rather only pay $35 and use SD cards which are more or less cheaper because in reality we are usually limited by the processor and ram than the SD card anyway.
I prefer to do something useful with my time rather than talk about whether this or that should be on the pi because of everybody got what they wanted it would be the size of a truck.
Actually... I think the memory and CPUs are capable of quite a bit more, but you can't get data throughput to exploit that capability. That's why I advocate for faster I/O rather than faster clock speed or more RAM. Both of those would be appreciated, but they aren't *needed* except for a few edge cases. You can't drive the development of a mass marketed device (remember...5+ million per year) by catering to edge cases.

If the Pi got faster I/O, then the use of HDDs and SSDs for mass storage would come into their own and arguments about swap space and wear on SD cards could recede into the background, as--most likely--would appeals for GbE (since that could be either natively part of the USB hub or easily added with a dongle).

I have run tests using an SBC with a far inferior CPU design (4xA9) than the Pi, but with a USB 3 port. Transfer rates jumped from around 30MB/s on both HDD and SSD to around 80MB/s on an HDD (PiDrive) and around 125MB/s on an SSD.

Is there anyone who can supply data transfer rate test information for eMMC on a roughly Pi-equivalent system?

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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:23 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:03 pm
Actually... I think the memory and CPUs are capable of quite a bit more, but you can't get data throughput to exploit that capability.
I have to agree. Generally it's been disc I/O that's the bottle neck rather than CPU/RAM. There's a reason most modern filesystem use both read and write caching. Hint: it's not due to slow CPU.
Arguing with strangers on the internet since 1993.

hippy
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:26 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:19 pm
hippy,
And it's not always the people asking who need educating; and is it really educating or simply dismissing ?
I'll go for dismissing. Nothing wrong with that. Short and sweet. Avoids any time wasting. Everybody has ideas. 99% of them can be dismissed after a moments reflection. Most of them are repetitions of the same idea that has been dismissed already.
I think there is something very wrong with that. I really don't understand why the RPT/RPF allows the mob to descend on a poster who has a suggestion and 'attack it', and often them, rather than simply saying "thanks for the idea, we'll keep it in mind".

Who appointed you, or anyone else here, to decide what is time wasting, what should be so swiftly dismissed > That's really not in the spirit of "be good to each other".
Last edited by hippy on Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:27 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:19 pm
hippy,
And it's not always the people asking who need educating; and is it really educating or simply dismissing ?
I'll go for dismissing. Nothing wrong with that. Short and sweet. Avoids any time wasting. Everybody has ideas. 99% of them can be dismissed after a moments reflection. Most of them are repetitions of the same idea that has been dismissed already.

Then I hope you're prepared to repeatedly dismiss things.
Unless you educate people why their idea is not viable and why it cannot or is not being done, then they'll keep having that same idea and asking for it, without ever realising it's futile.

It's a bit like telling a child "no, we are not getting a dog", but leaving out the reason, let's say the father is allergic to dogs.
The kid is going to be upset and think his/her parents just don't want to pay for a dog but the actual reason is because it would make the father sick.

Sometimes people need to know Why they can't have what they want, in order for them to stop asking for it.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:27 pm
Heater wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:19 pm
hippy,
And it's not always the people asking who need educating; and is it really educating or simply dismissing ?
I'll go for dismissing. Nothing wrong with that. Short and sweet. Avoids any time wasting. Everybody has ideas. 99% of them can be dismissed after a moments reflection. Most of them are repetitions of the same idea that has been dismissed already.

Then I hope you're prepared to repeatedly dismiss things.
Unless you educate people why their idea is not viable and why it cannot or is not being done, then they'll keep having that same idea and asking for it, without ever realising it's futile.

It's a bit like telling a child "no, we are not getting a dog", but leaving out the reason, let's say the father is allergic to dogs.
The kid is going to be upset and think his/her parents just don't want to pay for a dog but the actual reason is because it would make the father sick.

Sometimes people need to know Why they can't have what they want, in order for them to stop asking for it.

Maybe we should educate posters the value of learning how to use a Search Engine effectively ?
Rather than negativity think outside the box !
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Heater
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:40 pm

Imperf3kt,
Then I hope you're prepared to repeatedly dismiss things.
Unless you educate people why their idea is not viable and why it cannot or is not being done, then they'll keep having that same idea and asking for it, without ever realising it's futile.
OK. Sounds good.

So we get 10 pages of forum discussion where multiple people waste their time dismissing, err, educating a poster as to why their idea is not so great.

Good job.

Next day comes another one....

It would save everyone's time to have a "suggestion box" section of the forum. Directly wired to /dev/null :)

Now, how is my RISC V based Pi 5 coming along? It's very important we have that.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:45 pm

As was pointed out earlier, if you feel you are wasting your time, feel free to politely back out of the discussion.
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mfa298
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:19 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:40 pm
So we get 10 pages of forum discussion where multiple people waste their time dismissing, err, educating a poster as to why their idea is not so great.

Good job.

Next day comes another one....
Whilst I realise you might have one of the highest post counts on here there's no rule that says you personally have to reply to every single thread. You could easily ignore threads like this if they upset you and let the multitude of people willing to help the person(s) posting learn what things they might need to consider.

If such threads were allowed to run without the continual dismissive comments they might become a useful learning resource that future posters could find and learn from. As it is the useful replies that aim to educate get lost in the noise of people saying such posts are pointless and asking that all such topics get sent to /dev/null. (And based on the notifications I've had about posts to this thread I suspect many such noise posts have been quickly removed by the mod team).

hippy
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:34 pm

mfa298 wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:19 pm
If such threads were allowed to run without the continual dismissive comments they might become a useful learning resource that future posters could find and learn from. As it is the useful replies that aim to educate get lost in the noise of people saying such posts are pointless and asking that all such topics get sent to /dev/null.
Exactly that. I have no problem with people posting their views, their perspectives, even when counter to what is suggested, but it so often steps into "you're wrong" territory, becomes an excuse to attack a poster for what they suggested, an exercise to belittle them, to tell them they are time wasters, to basically say "go away; you and your ideas aren't wanted here".

It's not just saying "I don't agree" it's all-out dismissal of an idea and the person who dared post it.

I remember how those who dared suggested a sub-$10 computer were treated with disdain and 'run out of town'.

Unicorns, pink ponies, sandwiches and wheels on it, poppycock and balderdash, gets so very tiring.

It's not everyone of course. In fact it seems to me to just be the few same people time after time, who seen an opportunity to get away with something they never could in any other thread, and have at it. They get away with and keep getting away with it.

chwe
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:36 pm

Synonyms: open-minded thinking

well, I still hope that the devs here are open minded.. otherwise you'll hit the ground quite soon.

Yes it is an investment for the next generation of Pis to have an eMMC connector but it might be worth it. For the costs.. It's not that the competitors don't have those costs when they design an SBC and it seems that most of them cover the idea of SBCs with some sort of eMMC on it..

since you're interested in education here:
https://archive.fosdem.org/2018/schedul ... puters.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=248tVGxCROI
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:03 pm
Is there anyone who can supply data transfer rate test information for eMMC on a roughly Pi-equivalent system?
was done on page one of this thread (OPi PC+ 8gb eMMC running a patched 4.14 mainline kernel):
chwe wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:17 pm
just a speed comparison using iozone (running a 4.14.78 kernel with a debian stretch, iozone -e -I -a -s 100M -r 4k -r 16k -r 512k -r 1024k -r 16384k -i 0 -i 1 -i 2):

16gb sandisk A1 rated SD-Card (so not the cheapest crap you can find, and the cards I always use for reliable systems):

Code: Select all

                                                              random    random     bkwd    record    stride                                    
              kB  reclen    write  rewrite    read    reread    read     write     read   rewrite      read   fwrite frewrite    fread  freread
          102400       4     3719     3895     7724     7695     7643     2351                                                          
          102400      16     5734     8347    15140    14910    14770     5466                                                          
          102400     512    14384    17060    22461    22424    22398    15872                                                          
          102400    1024    17652    16479    22923    22892    22667    17697                                                          
          102400   16384    17775    17058    23196    23194    23193    18323  
8gb eMMC:

Code: Select all

                                                              random    random     bkwd    record    stride                                    
              kB  reclen    write  rewrite    read    reread    read     write     read   rewrite      read   fwrite frewrite    fread  freread
          102400       4     6785     7433    16816    16721    14114     4923                                                          
          102400      16    10407    26416    40161    40196    35028     9794                                                          
          102400     512    12861    39032    68940    68963    68948    17984                                                          
          102400    1024    16797    40088    70652    79246    75305    22743                                                          
          102400   16384    22623    41067    80902    81621    78402    40529   
The SD-Card interface for H3 boards isn't known as a speedy one in sequential write speeds. But that's not really important for an OS.. more important are the small block sizes in random read/write for logs etc.. And that's a quality card.. The whole story would look completely different if we talk about garbage cards where an eMMC easily outperforms an SD-Card by a factor of 10..
Imperf3kt wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:27 pm
Sometimes people need to know Why they can't have what they want, in order for them to stop asking for it.
if the arguments are wrong.. the arguments are wrong.. so some of the wrong arguments here:
- eMMC makes a board brickable.. that is showed multiple time as wrong
- look how expensive eMMC is and nobody will use it - solder a connector on it and sell it as a module, done
- costs for designing and routing - well every new pi version has some new routing, for me it was obvious that this doesn't happen with a current board, but might be considered for the Pi X where X can be whatever the next version will be called.

The only argument which IMO count is that SDIO interfaces of the current SoC are limited and don't allow an SD-Card + eMMC + SDIO based wifi and I assume as long as the Pi sticks to the VC4 core, this won't change but well, finding something which would allow a next version of a VC4 based RPi will be hard.. Let's face it, you maxed out the capabilities of the VC4 and the GbE attempt in the 3b+ showed it clearly (e.g. problem with flow-control).
Heater wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:40 pm
It would save everyone's time to have a "suggestion box" section of the forum. Directly wired to /dev/null :)
makes absolutely sense.. :roll: pro-tip: don't participate in threads you're not interested in.. :lol: if you think everything is said and the rest there just posts garbage.. let them post garbage.. but for the friends of the 'funny pictures' here:
Image

Some observations from someone who's normally on a board-maker independent forum (it's a distributions tied forum :lol: ):
- It seems that a lot of those who have a lot of posts here are somehow 'looked in' - if the RPi doesn't offer it, it must be something useless
- the arguments follow often some sort of a 'playbook' the first argument is that RPT knows what they're doing cause they sell millions of board and some sort of "out of RPi land there's only desert with no support and no community" - which is just wrong (e.g. the mainline support for the Allwinner SoC was a huge push from the community, it wasn't the SoC maker who got them mainlined)

Yes, the RPT sells a lot of boards, doesn't mean that others selling less board do a bad job. Maybe it's less popular, maybe their board shine for different purposes with a smaller user-base in mind (e.g. Olimex builds great opensource boards when it comes to battery powered SBCs you may have a look into this blogpost https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2018/ ... bsite.html) or Hardkernels HC1/HC2 which have NAS use-cases in mind.

Heater
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:50 pm

makes absolutely sense.. :roll: pro-tip: don't participate in threads you're not interested in.. :lol: if you think everything is said and the rest there just posts garbage.. let them post garbage.. but for the friends of the 'funny pictures' here:
Grief what? I put a smiley at the end of my post. That should indicate it's not exactly serious.

Seems I have been dismissed. I'll get my coat.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:37 pm

:D

OK will admit I am totally wrong.

Raspberry Pi Trading should move to China and use Chinese Government subsidies to produce a multitude of SBCs with ARM64 and x86-64 CPUs.

Therefore whenever someone has the next must have idea it can be implemented.

:D

Unfortunately Raspberry Pi Foundation would cease as UK and other Western Countries are wary of Chinese Companies (Huawei).

Schools in the UK will stop teaching worthwhile IT

:D


Ah bliss :lol:
Rather than negativity think outside the box !
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:06 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 pm
Maybe we should educate posters the value of learning how to use a Search Engine effectively ?
I can think of an awful lot of questions that get asked here and in other places that would be answered by this. Unfortunately answering "ask google" seems to upset folks.
Arguing with strangers on the internet since 1993.

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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:26 pm

chwe wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:36 pm

if the arguments are wrong.. the arguments are wrong.. so some of the wrong arguments here:
- eMMC makes a board brickable.. that is showed multiple time as wrong
Only if there is an alternative storage device that can A. be booted from and B. re-write the eMMC. In the Pi world only the CM/CM3 have eMMC so that's what I was using for comparison.
- look how expensive eMMC is and nobody will use it - solder a connector on it and sell it as a module, done
As I've said before, the SDIO interface can be exposed on the GPIO (don't ask for details, hit google). There's nothing stopping you or anyone releasing an eMMC HAT. The lack of such a HAT seems to me to back up jamesh's argument regarding low demand for it.
- costs for designing and routing - well every new pi version has some new routing, for me it was obvious that this doesn't happen with a current board, but might be considered for the Pi X where X can be whatever the next version will be called.
It may have been obvious to you but not to everyone. As for "every new board..." the amount of work needed depends very much on where in the process it is when you decide to make the change. The further along it is the more effort it takes and consequently the higher the cost. I also wonder just how much re-routing has gone on given the evolutionary nature of the model upgrades.

A new feature requested, and approved, now probably won't arrive until the Pi4+ at the earliest but more likely not until the Pi6 (I'm guessing - I have no insider knowledge)

What really irks me about these random feature requests is that the folks who make tham and some of those arguing for them not only don't understand the work involved but also don't take 5 minutes to hit google to see if it has already been discussed or whether it's possible for them to add it themselves.
Arguing with strangers on the internet since 1993.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:54 pm

thagrol wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:26 pm
chwe wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:36 pm

if the arguments are wrong.. the arguments are wrong.. so some of the wrong arguments here:
- eMMC makes a board brickable.. that is showed multiple time as wrong
Only if there is an alternative storage device that can A. be booted from and B. re-write the eMMC. In the Pi world only the CM/CM3 have eMMC so that's what I was using for comparison.
- look how expensive eMMC is and nobody will use it - solder a connector on it and sell it as a module, done
As I've said before, the SDIO interface can be exposed on the GPIO (don't ask for details, hit google). There's nothing stopping you or anyone releasing an eMMC HAT. The lack of such a HAT seems to me to back up jamesh's argument regarding low demand for it.
- costs for designing and routing - well every new pi version has some new routing, for me it was obvious that this doesn't happen with a current board, but might be considered for the Pi X where X can be whatever the next version will be called.
It may have been obvious to you but not to everyone. As for "every new board..." the amount of work needed depends very much on where in the process it is when you decide to make the change. The further along it is the more effort it takes and consequently the higher the cost. I also wonder just how much re-routing has gone on given the evolutionary nature of the model upgrades.

A new feature requested, and approved, now probably won't arrive until the Pi4+ at the earliest but more likely not until the Pi6 (I'm guessing - I have no insider knowledge)

What really irks me about these random feature requests is that the folks who make tham and some of those arguing for them not only don't understand the work involved but also don't take 5 minutes to hit google to see if it has already been discussed or whether it's possible for them to add it themselves.

Actually I have searched for various "HATS" and they do not appear to offer PCIe or eMMC connectors and anyway one can add a Graphics Card or extra CPU.


Considering Waveshare can produce a CM3 board and previously WD Labs, both at favourable pricing, it does make one wonder why no one else has offered a product, is it lack of advertising or perceived lack of demand after market research ?


Maybe the next RPi will be a modular design, similar to what was envisioned for Smart TVs several years ago ?
Rather than negativity think outside the box !
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chwe
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Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:02 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:37 pm
:D

OK will admit I am totally wrong.

Raspberry Pi Trading should move to China and use Chinese Government subsidies to produce a multitude of SBCs with ARM64 and x86-64 CPUs.

Therefore whenever someone has the next must have idea it can be implemented.

:D

Unfortunately Raspberry Pi Foundation would cease as UK and other Western Countries are wary of Chinese Companies (Huawei).

Schools in the UK will stop teaching worthwhile IT

:D


Ah bliss :lol:
and this post is exactly the reason why it's not worth to discuss with you.. :lol:
hardkernel (HC1 is based in south korea) and the guys from olimex are based in bulgaria. but yeah everywhere evil chinese companies here.. :lol: maybe I design an alu hat for you..
Image

at least with @thagrol there's a discussion.. not only...
thagrol wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:26 pm
chwe wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:36 pm

if the arguments are wrong.. the arguments are wrong.. so some of the wrong arguments here:
- eMMC makes a board brickable.. that is showed multiple time as wrong
Only if there is an alternative storage device that can A. be booted from and B. re-write the eMMC. In the Pi world only the CM/CM3 have eMMC so that's what I was using for comparison.
or the way others solve this... with an sd-card emmc adapter for programming
Image
smart.. those guys.. as said.. those problems are solved.. ;)
thagrol wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:26 pm
As I've said before, the SDIO interface can be exposed on the GPIO (don't ask for details, hit google). There's nothing stopping you or anyone releasing an eMMC HAT. The lack of such a HAT seems to me to back up jamesh's argument regarding low demand for it.
or they just go for a board which offers their demands. who knows... I go for boards which offer more or less my demands and start from there..
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:54 pm
Actually I have searched for various "HATS" and they do not appear to offer PCIe or eMMC connectors and anyway one can add a Graphics Card or extra CPU.
I really hope that's one of your sarcastic posts here.. :mrgreen:

Maybe the guy started this thread was a bit harsh in his wording.. doesn't mean he's completely wrong with all his statements?
thagrol wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:06 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:31 pm
Maybe we should educate posters the value of learning how to use a Search Engine effectively ?
I can think of an awful lot of questions that get asked here and in other places that would be answered by this. Unfortunately answering "ask google" seems to upset folks.
I assume this page is exactly what you're looking for.. ;)
https://lmgtfy.com/

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 23831
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Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:18 pm

chwe wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:02 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:54 pm
Actually I have searched for various "HATS" and they do not appear to offer PCIe or eMMC connectors and anyway one can add a Graphics Card or extra CPU.
I really hope that's one of your sarcastic posts here..

No not at all, that is what gets asked, fact not fiction, over the last 7+ years.

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=230166

The other one is can you join 4 RPi Quad-Core models together and magically one will have 16 core CPU to play the latest and greatest game on...that is a fact.


;)
Rather than negativity think outside the box !
RPi 4B 4GB (SSD Boot) RaspiOS64 ARM64
Asus ChromeBox 3 Celeron is my other computer...

User avatar
thagrol
Posts: 3274
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:41 pm
Location: Darkest Somerset, UK
Contact: Website

Re: Rpi with onboard EMMC storage

Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:48 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:18 pm
chwe wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:02 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:54 pm
Actually I have searched for various "HATS" and they do not appear to offer PCIe or eMMC connectors and anyway one can add a Graphics Card or extra CPU.
I really hope that's one of your sarcastic posts here..

No not at all, that is what gets asked, fact not fiction, over the last 7+ years.

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=230166

The other one is can you join 4 RPi Quad-Core models together and magically one will have 16 core CPU to play the latest and greatest game on...that is a fact.


;)
I did wonder about that comment but fruitoftheloom is right. All those things (and more) have been asked for over the years.
Arguing with strangers on the internet since 1993.

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