hyanmmx
Posts: 12
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Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:58 pm

Hi, friends:
I am actually not a beginner with raspberry pi, (I am using my rpi3b board as a NAS and installed Home Assistant), but I have very little knowledge about hardware and electronic circuit. I would like to know if there is any extra precautions I should take to power up pi zero board. Are there any differences in the power section circuit between the "big pi board" and pi zero board, cause the same USB cable works fine with my rpi 3b board but killed 2 of my pi zero boards :( :(

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rpdom
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:09 pm

Yes, there are some differences. The Pi Zero has a little less protection from bad supplies than the rest of the range.

But if your USB cable supplies the correct 5V and sufficient power (the Zero doesn't take a huge amount), you should be fine.

What is the rating and model of your USB supply?

Did you connect any other hardware to your Zero?

hippy
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:26 pm

rpdom wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:09 pm
Yes, there are some differences. The Pi Zero has a little less protection from bad supplies than the rest of the range.
I would say quite a lot of difference and far less protection; no polyfuse, no USB current limiting, no USB backfeed protection, Vusb connected directly to 5V input.
hyanmmx wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:58 pm
the same USB cable works fine with my rpi 3b board but killed 2 of my pi zero boards :( :(
How exactly was your Pi zero connected and what to ?

If you run a Zero from a PSU adapter and also supply power through the USB data cable you can have serious problems and failures.

hyanmmx
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:56 am

Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:34 pm

rpdom wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:09 pm
Yes, there are some differences. The Pi Zero has a little less protection from bad supplies than the rest of the range.

But if your USB cable supplies the correct 5V and sufficient power (the Zero doesn't take a huge amount), you should be fine.

What is the rating and model of your USB supply?

Did you connect any other hardware to your Zero?
On the USB cable plug, it reads:
Input: AC 110~240V, 50/60Hz<0.4A
Output: DC 5V 2.5A
I think it just a normal usb cable. If the output is fixed 5V, the board shouldn't burn even if the current don't match, right?
One of my pi zero burned out with camera connected, another without any hardware connection.
before I try other usb cable with a new pi zero board, can you tell me more specificly of the pi zero power protection.
Thank you!

klricks
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:40 pm

hyanmmx wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 2:58 pm
Hi, friends:
I am actually not a beginner with raspberry pi, (I am using my rpi3b board as a NAS and installed Home Assistant), but I have very little knowledge about hardware and electronic circuit. I would like to know if there is any extra precautions I should take to power up pi zero board. Are there any differences in the power section circuit between the "big pi board" and pi zero board, cause the same USB cable works fine with my rpi 3b board but killed 2 of my pi zero boards :( :(
Are you sure you are using the correct USB ports for power and device on the zero? The zero will power up by either port but any USB device MUST be connected to the correct port.
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated Raspbian Buster w/ Desktop OS.

n67
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:58 pm

How do you know (*) they are "burned out" ?

(*) Or, to put it less kindly but more in the tone commonly found on this forum: What makes you think they are burned out?
"L'enfer, c'est les autres"

G fytc hsqr rum umpbq rm qyw rm rfc kmbq md rfgq dmpsk:

Epmu Sn!

J lnacjrw njbruh-carppnanm vxm rb mnuncrwp vh yxbcb!

hyanmmx
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:11 pm

n67 wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:58 pm
How do you know (*) they are "burned out" ?

(*) Or, to put it less kindly but more in the tone commonly found on this forum: What makes you think they are burned out?
Upon powering up, I did smell some plustic buring, and there is no LED blinking. on the subsequent tries, nothing happend, no smell nor LED blinking

hyanmmx
Posts: 12
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:14 pm

klricks wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:40 pm


Are you sure you are using the correct USB ports for power and device on the zero? The zero will power up by either port but any USB device MUST be connected to the correct port.
I think it's very clear for the Usb port next to a hole near the edge has text "PWR IN", that is the port to plug in the usb cable

n67
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:20 pm

Just to be clear, it doesn't matter which one of the micro-USB ports you use for power. Either one works, and they both work equally well. In particular, you cannot cause damage by using the "wrong" one (since there is no "wrong" one).

Having said that, it only matters if you want to use some USB device - then, of course, you need to plug in the USB device to the one labeled data, so in that case, the power has to be in the other one.

Most of my Pi Zeros are used as USB ethernet gadgets - that is, essentially as daughter-boards to another computer - I use the middle connection (the one for "data") as both power and data. In that case, I don't use the "power" one at all.
"L'enfer, c'est les autres"

G fytc hsqr rum umpbq rm qyw rm rfc kmbq md rfgq dmpsk:

Epmu Sn!

J lnacjrw njbruh-carppnanm vxm rb mnuncrwp vh yxbcb!

hyanmmx
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:56 am

Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:41 pm

n67 wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:20 pm
it only matters if you want to use some USB device - then, of course, you need to plug in the USB device to the one labeled data, so in that case, the power has to be in the other one.

Thanks for the information

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:46 pm

hyanmmx wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:11 pm
n67 wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 3:58 pm
How do you know (*) they are "burned out" ?

(*) Or, to put it less kindly but more in the tone commonly found on this forum: What makes you think they are burned out?
Upon powering up, I did smell some plustic buring, and there is no LED blinking. on the subsequent tries, nothing happend, no smell nor LED blinking

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58151

Note that the Zero is a special case, it has just one LED, which is an ACT LED that goes only ON during card read activity, but without activity is off. This means that the LED will only turn on if the zero can read its boot files!
adieu

My other Computer is an Asus CS10 ChromeBit running Chrome Operating System.
HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer supported by HPLIP software in Raspbian Buster.
Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1

MrEngman
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:29 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:46 pm
hyanmmx wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 4:11 pm

Upon powering up, I did smell some plustic buring, and there is no LED blinking. on the subsequent tries, nothing happend, no smell nor LED blinking

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=58151

Note that the Zero is a special case, it has just one LED, which is an ACT LED that goes only ON during card read activity, but without activity is off. This means that the LED will only turn on if the zero can read its boot files!
Really, are you sure?? On my Pi Zero the ACT LED is usually ON and flashes OFF when there is SD Card activity.
Simplicity is a prerequisite for reliability. Edsger W. Dijkstra

Please post ALL technical questions on the forum. Please Do Not send private messages.

hyanmmx
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:56 am

Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:00 pm

UPDATE:
I found this link very useful as fruitoftheloom posted.
If you have a PI model A, A+ or Zero there is a special trick which can be used to check if such a PI is "dead":
Take your PI, with nothing in any slot or socket (yes, no SD-card is needed or wanted to do this test!). Take a (special) USB-A to USB-A cable (or a more normal micro-USB to USB-A for the zero) & connect it to your PC, plugging the other end of the cable into the Pi's USB port. If the PI is alive, your Windows PC will go ding for the presence of new hardware & you should see "BCM2708 Boot" in Device Manager. Or on linux, with a "ID 0a5c:2763 Broadcom Corp" message from dmesg. If you see that, so far so good, you know the PI is not dead.
Actually only one of my zero board got burned. I used wrong command to flash the OS thus made the other zero board unable to read sd card on startup, which made me think it's burned out too since the LED doesn't blink.

Code: Select all

unzip -p img.zip | sudo dd of=/dev/sdX bs=4M conv=fsync status=progress
,I missed the "-p" parameter. STUPID ME :oops: :oops:

fruitoftheloom
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Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:37 pm

hyanmmx wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:00 pm
UPDATE:
I found this link very useful as fruitoftheloom posted.
If you have a PI model A, A+ or Zero there is a special trick which can be used to check if such a PI is "dead":
Take your PI, with nothing in any slot or socket (yes, no SD-card is needed or wanted to do this test!). Take a (special) USB-A to USB-A cable (or a more normal micro-USB to USB-A for the zero) & connect it to your PC, plugging the other end of the cable into the Pi's USB port. If the PI is alive, your Windows PC will go ding for the presence of new hardware & you should see "BCM2708 Boot" in Device Manager. Or on linux, with a "ID 0a5c:2763 Broadcom Corp" message from dmesg. If you see that, so far so good, you know the PI is not dead.
Actually only one of my zero board got burned. I used wrong command to flash the OS thus made the other zero board unable to read sd card on startup, which made me think it's burned out too since the LED doesn't blink.

Code: Select all

unzip -p img.zip | sudo dd of=/dev/sdX bs=4M conv=fsync status=progress
,I missed the "-p" parameter. STUPID ME :oops: :oops:

Etcher is a better tool for unzipping / creating bootable SD Cards:

https://www.balena.io/etcher/
adieu

My other Computer is an Asus CS10 ChromeBit running Chrome Operating System.
HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer supported by HPLIP software in Raspbian Buster.
Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1

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mahjongg
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:57 pm

MrEngman wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:29 pm

Really, are you sure?? On my Pi Zero the ACT LED is usually ON and flashes OFF when there is SD Card activity.
Yes

Try turning it on without an sd-card and the LED will not turn on!

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rpdom
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:01 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:37 pm
hyanmmx wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:00 pm
Actually only one of my zero board got burned. I used wrong command to flash the OS thus made the other zero board unable to read sd card on startup, which made me think it's burned out too since the LED doesn't blink.

Code: Select all

unzip -p img.zip | sudo dd of=/dev/sdX bs=4M conv=fsync status=progress
,I missed the "-p" parameter. STUPID ME :oops: :oops:
Etcher is a better tool for unzipping / creating bootable SD Cards:
If using a desktop/GUI, possibly. I'd rather stick with a simple command.

MrEngman
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:11 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:57 pm
MrEngman wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:29 pm

Really, are you sure?? On my Pi Zero the ACT LED is usually ON and flashes OFF when there is SD Card activity.
Yes

Try turning it on without an sd-card and the LED will not turn on!
Obviously, but with an SD card with Rasbian running the LED is permanently on unless the SD card is being written to when it will flick off.
Simplicity is a prerequisite for reliability. Edsger W. Dijkstra

Please post ALL technical questions on the forum. Please Do Not send private messages.

ait
Posts: 125
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:17 am

Hello,
on my pizero it is the same, LED permanently on, when the SD Card ist active the LED is off.

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mahjongg
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Re: Just burned out two pi zero boards

Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:47 am

MrEngman wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 7:11 pm
mahjongg wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 6:57 pm
MrEngman wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 5:29 pm

Really, are you sure?? On my Pi Zero the ACT LED is usually ON and flashes OFF when there is SD Card activity.
Yes

Try turning it on without an sd-card and the LED will not turn on!
Obviously, but with an SD card with Rasbian running the LED is permanently on unless the SD card is being written to when it will flick off.
Which means the LED is an activity LED NOT a power LED.
it wil also not react to undervoltages, like the power LED would do, in fact the zero has No undervoltage Detection, so No lightening icon either.

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