W. H. Heydt
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:04 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:50 pm
My original A+ was the same with usb hubs, a wirwd keyboard and mouse in the hub would not work. While wireless keyboard and mice dongles would be fine, be a WiFi or usb pen drive in there as well.
Is the hub a D-Link dub-h4? as they're the ones I had problems with..
Interesting. I've used an A+ with a passive hub--mouse, keyboard, WiFi dongle, and USB to Ethernet adapter with no issues. That was with this https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=10066 model. I don't power them because they will try to back power.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:28 pm

My non powered USB hubs are cheap, but they worked OK on my RPi3B(+) - so I was surprised that the RPi3A+ didn't give them enough power, using the same 2.5A official supply. :o

It must be down to the fact that the RPi3B(+) has 4 ports with 1.2A available, & the RPi3A+ only has one port with 600mA.

Edit: My USB keyboard draws 300mA & my USB mouse draws 100mA. When I was experimenting, I could plug in one or the other, & have it working, but not both together.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:36 pm

k-pi wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:28 pm
My non powered USB hubs are cheap, but they worked OK on my RPi3B(+) - so I was surprised that the RPi3A+ didn't give them enough power, using the same 2.5A official supply. :o

It must be down to the fact that the RPi3B(+) has 4 ports with 1.2A available, & the RPi3A+ only has one port with 600mA.

Edit: My USB keyboard draws 300mA & my USB mouse draws 100mA. When I was experimenting, I could plug in one or the other, & have it working, but not both together.

Where did you get that USB is 600mA ?

On the Zero there is no limit AFAIAA, but could be wrong ?
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:30 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:36 pm
k-pi wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 2:28 pm
My non powered USB hubs are cheap, but they worked OK on my RPi3B(+) - so I was surprised that the RPi3A+ didn't give them enough power, using the same 2.5A official supply. :o

It must be down to the fact that the RPi3B(+) has 4 ports with 1.2A available, & the RPi3A+ only has one port with 600mA.

Edit: My USB keyboard draws 300mA & my USB mouse draws 100mA. When I was experimenting, I could plug in one or the other, & have it working, but not both together.

Where did you get that USB is 600mA ?

On the Zero there is no limit AFAIAA, but could be wrong ?
Agree about the 600mA coming out of the blue, but the available current will be limited by the polyfuse rating on the board. If that's the same as on the Pi3B/Pi3B+, then the Pi3A+ ought to be able to supply something around 1.5A (or more), allowing for not having to power the LAN chip.

I also wonder what he's using for a keyboard that actually needs 300mA. The 100mA for the muse is rather high, as well.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:51 pm

I was presuming 600mA per USB motherboard hub/port. If that is wrong, then there must be something else coming into the equation.

My keyboard is a CiT KB-738 & has the 300mA written on it, whilst my mouse is a Logitech B100 which has 100mA written on it.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:15 pm

If anything, the 3A+ has more power capability on the USB port than any other model apart from the Zero. As far as I know (I don't have one to check), there is nothing to limit the current other than the input fuse, which I guess (could be wrong) is rated about 2.5A. Subtract what the Pi will use (under 1A) and you are left with maybe 1.5A+ for the USB port.

Can anyone confirm the fuse rating for me, and also the lack of current limiting?

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:27 pm

You'll find it works fine on all with an onboard USB hub chip #B(+) but not work nicely with the #A(+) series and probably the Zero series.
It's not the power, it's the external HUB that just doesn't work, I have another hub that has no porblem (that I've seen yet)
The D-Link chipset* one was a specific chipset that I had problems with. It came in two different sets of 4port USB2 hubs.

The hubs are 'fine' as there is no problem with windows PC and the Pi B(+) series.
I don't have an 3A+ to see.




*05e3:0606 Genesys Logic, Inc. USB 2.0 Hub / D-Link DUB-H4 USB 2.0 Hub

It's one of the first reasons I joined this forum, to try and find answers (that and the damage to the A+ ports with some USB devices.)

ANYWAY, that for another topic spun out I would have thought. not a main sticky.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:18 pm

k-pi wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:51 pm
I was presuming 600mA per USB motherboard hub/port. If that is wrong, then there must be something else coming into the equation.
The 600mA was in the Pi2B, with an option to set it to 1200mA. Later--and certainly the Pi3B/Pi3B+--defaults to the higher power rating. The Pi0/Pi0W don't have the power protection circuits at all, not even the polyfuse, so those boards will only be limited by the PSU and the current carrying capability of the PCB traces and the feed cable.

Since the A, A+, and Pi3A+ (presumably...I don't have one yet) have power protection circuits, the current available to the (one) USB port should be whatever the rest of the board doesn't need up to the limit imposed by power regulation, PSU and cabling. That *should* be in excess of the 1.2A from a Pi3B/Pi3B+ (assuming a sufficient PSU and power cable).

I have used Pi0, Pi0W, and A+ boards with the passive Monoprice hub I previously linked to. I recently did minimal testing of a Pi0W with a D-Link
DUB-H4 hub and found no issues. I will do further testing with the D-Link when I get a Pi3A+ (probably some time this coming week...it is in transit).

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:48 pm

Does the Pi3A+ require the latest OS?
Mine should arrive this afternoon, but my internet connection at home is under repairs, so I"m stuck with a ~2 month old version of Raspbian until some time next week.,
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:54 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:48 pm
Does the Pi3A+ require the latest OS?
Mine should arrive this afternoon, but my internet connection at home is under repairs, so I"m stuck with a ~2 month old version of Raspbian until some time next week.,

Support for 3A+ was added 2018-10-09:

http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbi ... _notes.txt
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:09 am

So a regular apt update apt upgrade would bring it up to date?
Can use my mobile data, but certainly can't grab the full OS from scratch.
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:54 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:09 am
So a regular apt update apt upgrade would bring it up to date?
Can use my mobile data, but certainly can't grab the full OS from scratch.
Yes, It means it came to apt sometime July onwards, (the one before the image it was officially in) you may already have it if you apt upgraded at some point.
Someone will know when it went to apt.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:30 am

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:54 am
Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:09 am
So a regular apt update apt upgrade would bring it up to date?
Can use my mobile data, but certainly can't grab the full OS from scratch.
Yes, It means it came to apt sometime July onwards, (the one before the image it was officially in) you may already have it if you apt upgraded at some point.
Someone will know when it went to apt.

Posted the info above, did you miss it ??

Support for 3A+ was added 2018-10-09:

http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbi ... _notes.txt
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:25 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 9:30 am
bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:54 am
Imperf3kt wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:09 am
So a regular apt update apt upgrade would bring it up to date?
Can use my mobile data, but certainly can't grab the full OS from scratch.
Yes, It means it came to apt sometime July onwards, (the one before the image it was officially in) you may already have it if you apt upgraded at some point.
Someone will know when it went to apt.

Posted the info above, did you miss it ??

Support for 3A+ was added 2018-10-09:

http://downloads.raspberrypi.org/raspbi ... _notes.txt
That's when it was added to the official SD image.
Not when it went up to apt/repository, which is often before.
The image before that one was the end of June. Hence sometime from June until October

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:28 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:25 pm
That's when it was added to the official SD image.
Not when it went up to apt/repository, which is often before.
The image before that one was the end of June. Hence sometime from June until October
The firmware support was added to the internal source tree on 5th September, so the next rpi-update/apt release after that should work.
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:28 am

hansotten wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:25 am
A new Pi! Good surprise again!

Saw the announcement at Pimorono's Bilgetank!

From the blog by Eben:

TL;DR: you can now get the 1.4GHz clock speed, 5GHz wireless networking and improved thermals of Raspberry Pi 3B+ in a smaller form factor, and at the smaller price of $25. Meet the Raspberry Pi 3 Model A+.

In some ways this is rather a poignant product for us. Back in March, we explained that the 3+ platform is the final iteration of the “classic” Raspberry Pi: whatever we do next will of necessity be less of an evolution, because it will need new core silicon, on a new process node, with new memory technology. So 3A+ is about closing things out in style, answering one of our most frequent customer requests, and clearing the decks so we can start to think seriously about what comes next.


So a new Pi, disruptive from the 'classic' Pi is coming!
What is this *new* raspberry pi?
What does classic mean?
I think of classic as having the usual rpi stuff (usb 2, fast ethernet, 40/26 gpios, hdmi, arm)
Could this mean usb 3 is coming?
Will the new rpi be intel based

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rpdom
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:38 am

JamesPi123 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:28 am
What is this *new* raspberry pi?
What does classic mean?
I think of classic as having the usual rpi stuff (usb 2, fast ethernet, 40/26 gpios, hdmi, arm)
Could this mean usb 3 is coming?
Will the new rpi be intel based
Best not to speculate, just wait and see. All we can be (fairly) sure of is that it won't be running a version of the BCM283X chipset.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:47 am

JamesPi123 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:28 am
hansotten wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:25 am
A new Pi! Good surprise again!

Saw the announcement at Pimorono's Bilgetank!

From the blog by Eben:

TL;DR: you can now get the 1.4GHz clock speed, 5GHz wireless networking and improved thermals of Raspberry Pi 3B+ in a smaller form factor, and at the smaller price of $25. Meet the Raspberry Pi 3 Model A+.

In some ways this is rather a poignant product for us. Back in March, we explained that the 3+ platform is the final iteration of the “classic” Raspberry Pi: whatever we do next will of necessity be less of an evolution, because it will need new core silicon, on a new process node, with new memory technology. So 3A+ is about closing things out in style, answering one of our most frequent customer requests, and clearing the decks so we can start to think seriously about what comes next.


So a new Pi, disruptive from the 'classic' Pi is coming!
What is this *new* raspberry pi?
What does classic mean?
I think of classic as having the usual rpi stuff (usb 2, fast ethernet, 40/26 gpios, hdmi, arm)
Could this mean usb 3 is coming?
Will the new rpi be intel based
No the recently announced Pi3A+ is just like the Pi3B+, only without the whole LAN/4 USB ports/Ethernet jack/PoE support. The Pi3A+ is the culmination (in the A series) of where the Pi is today. (And I, for one, am happy to see it.)

Is USB 3 coming? Probably. But no one knows when...or if they do, they're not talking. Could be with the Pi4 (whenever that arrives) or some later model. Not only is it extraordinarily unlikely that the next Pi, or any foreseeable Pi, would be Intel based, but there are a myriad of reasons why that would be a very bad idea. Intel took a shot at the SBC market (about three times) and fell flat on its face. The SBC market is the very antithesis of what Intel is set up to do.

Just about the only things that can be reasonably surmised about whatever Pi comes next are (a) almost certainly based on 28nm process node, (b) quite likely to have an improved VideoCore. Even for someone like me who loves a good speculation thread, nothing else rises to the level of something to expect, even if there are things that are desired.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:02 am

JamesPi123 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:28 am
hansotten wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:25 am
A new Pi! Good surprise again!

Saw the announcement at Pimorono's Bilgetank!

From the blog by Eben:

TL;DR: you can now get the 1.4GHz clock speed, 5GHz wireless networking and improved thermals of Raspberry Pi 3B+ in a smaller form factor, and at the smaller price of $25. Meet the Raspberry Pi 3 Model A+.

In some ways this is rather a poignant product for us. Back in March, we explained that the 3+ platform is the final iteration of the “classic” Raspberry Pi: whatever we do next will of necessity be less of an evolution, because it will need new core silicon, on a new process node, with new memory technology. So 3A+ is about closing things out in style, answering one of our most frequent customer requests, and clearing the decks so we can start to think seriously about what comes next.


So a new Pi, disruptive from the 'classic' Pi is coming!
What is this *new* raspberry pi?
What does classic mean?
I think of classic as having the usual rpi stuff (usb 2, fast ethernet, 40/26 gpios, hdmi, arm)
Could this mean usb 3 is coming?
Will the new rpi be intel based

The RPi VideoCore4 family is now complete and do not expect any news till at least 2020.

Just read the RPF Blog regularly:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:11 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:02 am

The RPi VideoCore4 family is now complete and do not expect any news till at least 2020.
To quote your favorite remark: poppycock and boulderdash!
Speculation! Do not pretend you are speaking for the Foundation and know the roadmap!

You do know new Raspberry Pi products are never announced until they are ready and available. Eben hints at a new Pi 4 and just tells it wil be a while before it is available.
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:33 pm

hansotten wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:11 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:02 am

The RPi VideoCore4 family is now complete and do not expect any news till at least 2020.
To quote your favorite remark: poppycock and boulderdash!
Speculation! Do not pretend you are speaking for the Foundation and know the roadmap!

You do know new Raspberry Pi products are never announced until they are ready and available. Eben hints at a new Pi 4 and just tells it wil be a while before it is available.
Actually... In one of the interviews Dr. Upton gave as part of the Pi3B launch, he said not to expect the next generation for "two to three years." Unless you count Pi3B+ as "next gen", that implies that the Pi4B should show up by--approximately--next spring, three years from the Pi3B launch.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:15 pm

hansotten wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:11 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:02 am

The RPi VideoCore4 family is now complete and do not expect any news till at least 2020.
To quote your favorite remark: poppycock and boulderdash!
Speculation! Do not pretend you are speaking for the Foundation and know the roadmap!

You do know new Raspberry Pi products are never announced until they are ready and available. Eben hints at a new Pi 4 and just tells it wil be a while before it is available.

https://www.itpro.co.uk/strategy/28278/ ... berry-pi-4

9 Mar, 2017

According to Upton, the projected lifecycle of the Raspberry Pi 3 is around three years, meaning that there is likely to be at least two more years until the foundation releases a new iteration of its single-board computer. "It's a long road to get to Pi 4," Upton said, "but we'll get there eventually."
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:17 pm

Eventually. Lots of work to do...
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:20 am

jamesh wrote:
Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:17 pm
Eventually. Lots of work to do...
Old programming adage... The first 90% of the project takes 90% of the time. The remaining 10% of the project takes the other 90% of the time.

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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:59 am

It would be nice to see a Pi with 1.5GB RAM and a SoC based on the ARM Cortex-A72.
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS desktop images for the Raspberry Pi 3.

https://github.com/CodeExecution/Ubuntu-ARM64-RPi

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