alphanumeric
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:58 pm

I'm liking this new model. I said in the other thread that is now locked that I'd buy one if they made it and I did. :D Three actually, I have two more on thier way, I should have them by the end of the week. I set mine up as a web camera running Motion Eye OS. It runs headless so not having all the extra not in use ports makes for a nice compact setup. I had originally tried a Zero W but it just wasn't up to the task of streaming video at any kind of decent FPS, IMHO anyway. I always liked the A+ for headless setups, I have two with Sense hats on them. The hat form factor of the A+ and 3A+ makes bolting hats on with stand offs a lot easier. Everything lines up nicely.

obsidianram
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:08 am

I gather the upcoming Pi 4 line will be a completely new perspective on design. What I'm wondering is this: All boards up to this point have that Achilles' Heel of permanent, fixed memory of a given size. Now, a lot of people have Mb and Gb sticks laying around from previous desktop upgrades they're not using. Those could easily be put back into service if a "Raspberry Pi 4 'Nebulous'" with a SIMM/DIMM/etc slots were designed into a board, allowing users the choice of memory size to incorporate into a project. It would also help with recycling old memory sticks instead of them just getting tossed out. Different models would need different pin count slots, yes. Just curious how possible it would be, as the compelling need and demand is certainly present.

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rpdom
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:21 am

obsidianram wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:08 am
Just curious how possible it would be, as the compelling need and demand is certainly present.
I would say near impossible. Firstly it would probably require a redesign of the memory controller and data bus on the SoC. Secondly, it is probable that the Pi4 will have something very similar to the VC4, still with the 1GB memory address limit, so there would be no point.

But this is all speculation, which is mostly pointless. I'm just going to wait and see when it arrives. We do know that it is going to have good stuff on it.

hippy
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:09 am

obsidianram wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:08 am
Just curious how possible it would be, as the compelling need and demand is certainly present.
It could be possible but I'm not convinced there is either compelling need or demand, that there would be any real gain from doing it, or there would be a business case for it.

I also think there would be more arguments for not doing it than doing it

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Imperf3kt
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:18 am

It would no longer be a single board computer then, now would it.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

obsidianram
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:39 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:18 am
It would no longer be a single board computer then, now would it.
As for the 'computer' proper, (to be a purist), sure it would still be a single board - just swapping one stick for another one. As for the increase in PS demands and a different processor (as rpdom was getting at), that's a glass ceiling that will have to be broken eventually...not in the near future, looks like.

stuartiannaylor

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:29 am

obsidianram wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 11:08 am
I gather the upcoming Pi 4 line will be a completely new perspective on design. What I'm wondering is this: All boards up to this point have that Achilles' Heel of permanent, fixed memory of a given size. Now, a lot of people have Mb and Gb sticks laying around from previous desktop upgrades they're not using. Those could easily be put back into service if a "Raspberry Pi 4 'Nebulous'" with a SIMM/DIMM/etc slots were designed into a board, allowing users the choice of memory size to incorporate into a project. It would also help with recycling old memory sticks instead of them just getting tossed out. Different models would need different pin count slots, yes. Just curious how possible it would be, as the compelling need and demand is certainly present.
$5 Zero
$10 Zero-W
$20 Pi 3 A+
$35 Pi 3 B+

The Pi Zero is cramped to get more ram as the ram is part of the cpu package.
Pi 3 A / Pi 3 B (512mb / 1gb) is purely cost as pretty sure there are 12mm packages via micron all the way to 4gb.

Use zram and use a tiny bit of CPU power to get up to 300% ram up your swapiness and also the important page-cache set to 0
Or give https://github.com/StuartIanNaylor/zram-config as practically every form of zram use in that install swap, dir, log and emphemeral system.

I am worried that the $35 mark will see raspberry skimp on ram with the Pi4 and there is a strange notion that the Pi4 is a product alone and not part of its range that starts at $5.
Pi 4 needs to be a new perspective on design and the great products already in existence and possible new often seen to be forgotten and that $35 mark would seem to collide with those products and limit market scope.
Personally I would be really happy to see a $50 top end Pi4 that does support ram, a high speed bus (m.2) and why upton doesn't like USB C just strikes me as strange and think the reality is price. Maybe comes underclocked but also has mounting holes for much better cooling and maybe goes past the 2.5A limit if you up the clock speed.

There seems so much focus on the Pi4 that hey with 22nm what about a Pi-Zero-2 also the 3-A / 3-B form factor that maybe there could be continuation and if production costs can be cut its very possible to maybe get a memory increase to 1gb/2gb which for those products would be great.

I have a horrid feeling that the Pi4 is not going to land where it should and cramp raspberries own product lines as yeah pi4 A $35 but pi4 B @ $35 is likely to make such concessions at a market point and with a product line that is a bad fit.

A big part of cost isn't the chips it is form factor and connectors and adding space for the connectors and the cost of connectors on a SBC probably isn't worth it to what could be a single 12mm package.
The ram allocation to CPU in the current line is pretty well matched and like said with zram can be extended especially with a few perf tweaks.
The 3A+/3B+ maybe if costs would allow 1gb/2gb but I do have this fear that the CPU in the Pi4 is going to be a really bad match because of ram cost that just will not fit in $35.

Would love to see a 22nm 512mb Pi-zero-2 as cpu wise the zero is just a tad lacking but there is still much you can do with much less ram than windows bloat dictates.

Pi3A+ is an amazing product just got one and perfect for what will be a magicmirror :)

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mahjongg
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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:17 am

jamesh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:03 am
Please keep disucssion to the 3A+.

There are no changes planned for the 3A+.
On that point, Because this thread is diverting to speculation about the RPI4 its time to lock it.
Above text also is speculation based on false premises and fear, aka FUD.

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