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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:10 am
by jamesh
code_exec wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:59 am
It would be nice to see a Pi with 1.5GB RAM and a SoC based on the ARM Cortex-A72.
The current SoC is unable to address more than 1GB of RAM, it's a HW limitation. So the current range cannot be moved to anything higher than 1GB.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:12 am
by fruitoftheloom
code_exec wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:59 am
It would be nice to see a Pi with 1.5GB RAM and a SoC based on the ARM Cortex-A72.

It would be nice if people did not speculate.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:27 am
by bensimmo
code_exec wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:59 am
It would be nice to see a Pi with 1.5GB RAM and a SoC based on the ARM Cortex-A72.
Doubt the 3A+ will be getting them.

And why A72 and not the newer A73 revision?

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:03 am
by jamesh
Please keep disucssion to the 3A+.

There are no changes planned for the 3A+.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:43 pm
by hippy
jamesh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:03 am
There are no changes planned for the 3A+.
Has the issue of production line OTP fuse programming - which currently allows USB Host Booting by default but prevents USB Device Booting - been decided / settled ?

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:03 pm
by jamesh
hippy wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:43 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:03 am
There are no changes planned for the 3A+.
Has the issue of production line OTP fuse programming - which currently allows USB Host Booting by default but prevents USB Device Booting - been decided / settled ?
Not that I am aware of. So you are correct, there might be a tiny change there, but no HW changes are planned for the 3A+.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:39 pm
by W. H. Heydt
jamesh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:03 am
Please keep disucssion to the 3A+.

There are no changes planned for the 3A+.
While not exactly *planned*, I would presume that if prices shift in appropriate ways, we might eventually see a Pi3A+ with 1GB RAM.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:27 pm
by hippy
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:39 pm
While not exactly *planned*, I would presume that if prices shift in appropriate ways, we might eventually see a Pi3A+ with 1GB RAM.
I think that would depend on whether or not the choice of going with 512MB was purely because of price or a more strategic commercial decision.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:18 pm
by jamesh
hippy wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:27 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:39 pm
While not exactly *planned*, I would presume that if prices shift in appropriate ways, we might eventually see a Pi3A+ with 1GB RAM.
I think that would depend on whether or not the choice of going with 512MB was purely because of price or a more strategic commercial decision.
Memory is pretty expensive at the moment.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:48 pm
by Imperf3kt
code_exec wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:59 am
It would be nice to see a Pi with 1.5GB RAM and a SoC based on the ARM Cortex-A72.
It would be, but this is not the place to request that.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:43 pm
by fruitoftheloom
Imperf3kt wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:48 pm
code_exec wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:59 am
It would be nice to see a Pi with 1.5GB RAM and a SoC based on the ARM Cortex-A72.
It would be, but this is not the place to request that.

This has already been stated by a MOD:

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=226958&start=100#p1400225

Actually nowhere is the right place to request any future features..............

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:46 pm
by Will5455
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:27 pm
I think someone needs to have a little chat with Premier Farnell as this https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/rpi ... p/80AC9303 page shows the Pi3A+ with a price of $47.30. Since it's a US site, that's without taxes.
and amazon has the 3b+ for 40-45 bucks!

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:44 pm
by Paul Hutch
FYI, Newark now has the 3A+ in stock and the price is down to $25. They have also sold over 40,000 of their in stock 3B+'s.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:10 pm
by W. H. Heydt
Will5455 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:46 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:27 pm
I think someone needs to have a little chat with Premier Farnell as this https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/rpi ... p/80AC9303 page shows the Pi3A+ with a price of $47.30. Since it's a US site, that's without taxes.
and amazon has the 3b+ for 40-45 bucks!
Amazon is not an official sales channel. Farnell is. So there are no constraints on what the price might be set to on Amazon. Farnell is *supposed* to sell at list. And....there's a report that they are doing so now. Having just checked, both Newark and Allied (the US subsidiaries of RS and Farnell) are both listing the Pi3A+ at $25.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:19 pm
by laurent
jamesh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:03 pm
hippy wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:43 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:03 am
There are no changes planned for the 3A+.
Has the issue of production line OTP fuse programming - which currently allows USB Host Booting by default but prevents USB Device Booting - been decided / settled ?
Not that I am aware of. So you are correct, there might be a tiny change there, but no HW changes are planned for the 3A+.
I'm sorry to post a feature request, but will it be possible to change the existing power micro USB connector to a OTG connector (with data lines) ? So it would be possible to run the 3A+ without an SD card, like the Pi Zero does.
Since there is only one USB port, both connectors (the micro and regular one) would share the same data line with a potential magic smoke when both will be accidentally connected ?

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:05 pm
by Imperf3kt
laurent wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:19 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:03 pm
hippy wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:43 pm

Has the issue of production line OTP fuse programming - which currently allows USB Host Booting by default but prevents USB Device Booting - been decided / settled ?
Not that I am aware of. So you are correct, there might be a tiny change there, but no HW changes are planned for the 3A+.
I'm sorry to post a feature request, but will it be possible to change the existing power micro USB connector to a OTG connector (with data lines) ? So it would be possible to run the 3A+ without an SD card, like the Pi Zero does.
Since there is only one USB port, both connectors (the micro and regular one) would share the same data line with a potential magic smoke when both will be accidentally connected ?
Possible, yes. Going to happen... Who can say.


Alas, this won't work either way - the Pi3A+ needs about as much power as a Pi3b+ - up to 2.5A while a PC USB interface only supplies 0.5A

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:49 am
by laurent
Imperf3kt wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:05 pm
laurent wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:19 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:03 pm


Not that I am aware of. So you are correct, there might be a tiny change there, but no HW changes are planned for the 3A+.
I'm sorry to post a feature request, but will it be possible to change the existing power micro USB connector to a OTG connector (with data lines) ? So it would be possible to run the 3A+ without an SD card, like the Pi Zero does.
Since there is only one USB port, both connectors (the micro and regular one) would share the same data line with a potential magic smoke when both will be accidentally connected ?
Possible, yes. Going to happen... Who can say.


Alas, this won't work either way - the Pi3A+ needs about as much power as a Pi3b+ - up to 2.5A while a PC USB interface only supplies 0.5A
That's right. I totally forgot the USB standard current limit :oops:
The 2.5A rating of the Pi 3B(+) includes the USB ports 1.2A maximum current, which the 3A+ doesn't have.
Anyway, the 3A+ remains too power hungry for being powered by another USB port, though (maybe a powered USB hub, but what the standard says about that ?)

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:37 am
by Imperf3kt
laurent wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:49 am
Anyway, the 3A+ remains too power hungry for being powered by another USB port, though (maybe a powered USB hub, but what the standard says about that ?)
The standard remains unchanged, 0.5A per port.
Some can do more than the rated standard, but usually 4 port hubs are supplied with a 2A PSU. 4/2=0.5
Then there's the cable you use and the ports themselves, all of which are normally only rated for 0.5A

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:50 pm
by Paul Hutch
The standard requires a minimum of 0.5A, more current can be made available but is not required by the standard e.g. charging port on my HP workstation can supply 1.5A.

I also have a USB hub with a 4A adapter that can supply 1.5A on each of the two charging ports.
https://www.newark.com/stellar-labs-com ... dp/42X9281

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:30 am
by hippy
laurent wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:19 pm
I'm sorry to post a feature request, but will it be possible to change the existing power micro USB connector to a OTG connector (with data lines) ? So it would be possible to run the 3A+ without an SD card, like the Pi Zero does.
It is already possible to boot a 3A+ without an SD Card like one can a Zero, A and A+ by using an appropriate cable but the current production line OTP fuse programming prevents that working.

Whether that will change in the future is under discussion.

Adding data lines and OTG signalling to the USB power connector with those data lines also going to the other USB connector is likely to just confuse things and cause problems. The ideal solution would be two separate models; the 3A+ as it is, and something else with USB OTG. Whether that will ever happen is anyone's guess.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:40 pm
by W. H. Heydt
hippy wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:30 am
laurent wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:19 pm
I'm sorry to post a feature request, but will it be possible to change the existing power micro USB connector to a OTG connector (with data lines) ? So it would be possible to run the 3A+ without an SD card, like the Pi Zero does.
It is already possible to boot a 3A+ without an SD Card like one can a Zero, A and A+ by using an appropriate cable but the current production line OTP fuse programming prevents that working.

Whether that will change in the future is under discussion.

Adding data lines and OTG signalling to the USB power connector with those data lines also going to the other USB connector is likely to just confuse things and cause problems. The ideal solution would be two separate models; the 3A+ as it is, and something else with USB OTG. Whether that will ever happen is anyone's guess.
The other possibility would be to revert to the Pi3B/Pi2Bv1.2/CM3L behavior and not set the MSD boot bit, letting the end user set that or not as they choose. I will grant that this would require trusting said end users to know what they're doing...

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:01 pm
by Will5455
but they did get into this themselves

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:55 am
by plugwash
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:39 pm
While not exactly *planned*, I would presume that if prices shift in appropriate ways, we might eventually see a Pi3A+ with 1GB RAM.
The Pi uses a relatively old memory technology and IIRC the 1GB memory chips are (or at least were) a multi-die package. Unless that changes/has changed I imagine the 1GB chips will remain relatively expensive even if memory prices fall.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:04 am
by W. H. Heydt
plugwash wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:55 am
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:39 pm
While not exactly *planned*, I would presume that if prices shift in appropriate ways, we might eventually see a Pi3A+ with 1GB RAM.
The Pi uses a relatively old memory technology and IIRC the 1GB memory chips are (or at least were) a multi-die package. Unless that changes/has changed I imagine the 1GB chips will remain relatively expensive even if memory prices fall.
The same memory as used on the Pi2B, Pi3B, Pi3B+, CM3 and CM3L, right? The Pi3A+ volume probably won't have much effect on the pricing, but it wouldn't hurt.

I do understand the constraints, and that's why I phrased my point the way I did. *If* the prices come down (and look like they'll stay down), *then* and only then would moving the Pi3A+ to !GB RAM be a reasonable course.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:23 pm
by JKGandhi
I followed Beau's tutorial on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nDJPidKSPA (Raspberry pi 3 A+ ethernet/ssh over USB! Gadget Mode tutorial) and accessing through single cable SSH (Power + SSH), just like Raspberry Pi Zero/W.