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Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:33 am
by warby
So in the news this morning The Education Secretary stated that compulsory ICT would be scrapped from September to make way for new Computer Science and Programming lessons... Just thought you guys should know

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:49 am
by Davespice
BBC Article dated 11 January 2012 Last updated at 06:06

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/educ.....n-16493929

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:02 am
by warby
Thanks, I saw the article on the BBC app but didn"t have time to find it

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:01 am
by DarkStarr
Good Idea, my kids are excellent at using computers but if anything oddball happens or not what they have been taught they get shout "Dad"

Only problem I can see with this is it takes so long to get subjects approved for the curriculum, the technology will be out of date before its even being taught.

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:10 am
by MrLolecule
DarkStarr said:


Only problem I can see with this is it takes so long to get subjects approved for the curriculum, the technology will be out of date before its even being taught.


I don't think this will be much of a problem, technology change typically manifests itself as new libraries and APIs. These can be learned relatively easily once the basics are well established.

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:17 am
by stan4th
How does this affect those choosing their options now?

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:21 am
by rurwin
The only problem I can see with it is that the article on the Radio 4 news at 8am stated that they would be consulting Microsoft and Google on the way forward. We must not allow Microsoft, or Google, or any others, to hijack this.

I hope the Raspberry Pi foundation are hammering on the doors of the Education Ministry.

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:33 am
by mightygoose
rurwin said:


The only problem I can see with it is that the article on the Radio 4 news at 8am stated that they would be consulting Microsoft and Google on the way forward. We must not allow Microsoft, or Google, or any others, to hijack this.

I hope the Raspberry Pi foundation are hammering on the doors of the Education Ministry.



+1 for keeping the developement cheap and grassroots

11+12 = new highscore

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:01 am
by toadstool
Great news.

I wonder how instrumental the Raspberry Pi foundation was in influencing this decision?

The whole premise of the foundation has been to change and influence computer education in the UK. Seems to me to be too much of a coincidence for the government to suddenly announce this especially given the high profile publicity that Raspi's been getting recently.

More power to Pi!

Oh, and if the Raspberry Pi foundation did have influence over such a decision, perhaps they would be equally successful in influencing a change to the crazy import tax laws regarding components and electronic manufacture!

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:10 am
by Danbert
Isn't replacing ICT with programming a bit of a daft move?

The only relationship that the two things have is that they both involve computers - to me it's analogous to replacing English with Art since you can do both using pencil and paper.

Why aren't basic computer skills (word processing, what a spreadsheet does, what a database does) taught separately to programming and the details of how computers work?

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:04 pm
by toadstool
Secretarial studies (word processing, spreadsheets etc) used to be a separate subject to Computer studies (programming etc) when I was at school (some years ago now .

There seems to be another thread about the recent government announcement:

http://www.raspberrypi.org/for.....e-scrapped

...where Liz says that the Raspi foundation have been talking to the Department of Education for some time now....

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:32 pm
by warby

Dan Ankers said:


Why aren't basic computer skills (word processing, what a spreadsheet does, what a database does) taught separately to programming and the details of how computers work?

Ive just been through 11 years of ICT which taught the exact same thing in every lesson... And they were all things that I had known since I had a computer. Last year I started a computing A level and the amount of stuff I have learned that ICT didn't supply is overwhelming. ICT is an absolute waste of time when compared to computing and I would have loved to have learned it from year 1 rather than how to hit the auto sum button in excel for 11 years!


Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 12:33 pm
by warby
Ugh, i dont know why it put what i wrote into that quote *facepalm* but yeah...

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:45 pm
by warby
theres another article on the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/educ.....n-16509298

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:54 pm
by tonycollinet
Dan Ankers said:


Why aren't basic computer skills (word processing, what a spreadsheet does, what a database does) taught separately to programming and the details of how computers work?


Becuause frankly - kids don't need to be taught it - they can pick it up on their own in a short time. Hence the comment in the article about ICT being boring.

It is exactly the right thing to swap it for computer science.

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:04 pm
by The Cageybee
I too am glad to hear the UK government seem to be listening but at the same time am a little worried that they still don't seem to 'get it'.

Scrapping ICT for computer science in it's entirety would be a mistake. Not every kid dreams of growing up to be a programmer or hacker. Just because all of us do, doesn't mean it's right for everyone.

ICT does serve a purpose. Whilst we all happily tap away on our keyboards and jab at our tablets it's easy to forget that a sizable part of families in the UK live a hand to mouth existence with, I believe, roughly 22% of children in the UK living below the poverty line. For these kids it's highly unlikely that they're exposed to even the most rudimentary computer tech at home, and if they don't wish to do computer science GCSEs, might end up slipping through the net and leaving school with little to no IT skills.

That said, I believe that starting kids who are interested in programming, etc, shouldn't have to wait until they choose their options.

When I started secondary school was right around when all this ICT stuff came in. I remember when I started school there was a computer lab, computer club, etc, but with the advent of ICT that was all scrapped.

I have to say that I'm very wary when politicians make bold decisions and swathing statements like this. It always just feels like rhetoric to try and gain some popularity with the public without really thinking about what they are doing or what it's effects will be.

So while I very much welcome the decision to reintroduce computer science back into schools, I think ICT also has a place. I also feel we need to have a return to having computer clubs in schools so that kids who are interested in computer science don't have to wait until their GCSEs start.

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:34 pm
by tzj
I see the current ICT GCSE as a unit included in the new computing GCSE. IMO.

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:40 pm
by Evocation
Sounds like a good thing, any idea how long it would likely take to come into effect? I'm planning at some point to become a teacher, gaining some experience in the private sector first.

My only concern would be what programming. Using WYSIWYG editors and such while great for explaining logic, but isn't much different from the current using applications. Coding is a little like Marmite however.

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:07 pm
by warby
Supposedly next year but from the reactions of some teachers unions probably a bit longer

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:44 am
by Evocation
Next year would seem a bit fast for the government. I'd rather not just do a PGCE in a ICT to find that the curriculum has changed just when I start.

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:56 pm
by scep
To clarify:

1) ICT has not been scrapped - it remains compulsory at all Key Stages.

2) The proposal is to disapply the current ICT curriculum. This means that you can deliver and assess ICT how you want (though academies and non-state schools can do this anyway). Or it means that you can keep doing what you are doing. It's up to the school.

It seems to be an interim "panic-driven" measure whilst they sort out exactly how computing will fit into the National Curriculum (and how they will train the teachers to deliver it!)

Re: ICT to be scrapped for programming

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:52 pm
by PhilS
The Cageybee said:


Scrapping ICT for computer science in it"s entirety would be a mistake. Not every kid dreams of growing up to be a programmer or hacker. Just because all of us do, doesn"t mean it"s right for everyone.


I did music at GCSE, but I'm no musician. I think the point of GCSEs are to dip your fingers in lots of pies and see what you like. You begin to specialise at A level.

If more kids got experience in programming, more would decide they like it and thus they'd be more likely to take it through to A levels, degrees and possibly careers.