Baziiner
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:51 pm

Worth buying it ?

Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:02 pm

HI everyone !

I'm new to programming ( learning web development, have knowledge of HTML/CSS/JS atm) and i just came across raspberry Pi and i really loved the idea of doing whatever you wish with it (Almost ) . i know raspberry runs an open source OS and i really want to go beyond my comfort zone of using just Windows and understand Linux as well . Also i really want to learn Python . My plans are just to widen my knowledge when it comes to computers and programming .i want it for education purposes first . So i just want hear suggestions . should i get it ? what else do i need to buy ? which model should i go for ? is it even good for a noob like me ?

fruitoftheloom
Posts: 21079
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:40 pm
Location: Delightful Dorset

Re: Worth buying it ?

Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:29 pm

Baziiner wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:02 pm
HI everyone !

I'm new to programming ( learning web development, have knowledge of HTML/CSS/JS atm) and i just came across raspberry Pi and i really loved the idea of doing whatever you wish with it (Almost ) . i know raspberry runs an open source OS and i really want to go beyond my comfort zone of using just Windows and understand Linux as well . Also i really want to learn Python . My plans are just to widen my knowledge when it comes to computers and programming .i want it for education purposes first . So i just want hear suggestions . should i get it ? what else do i need to buy ? which model should i go for ? is it even good for a noob like me ?


https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/

https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/

https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... el-b-plus/

https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/ra ... er-supply/

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/
Retired disgracefully.....
This at present is my daily "computer" https://www.asus.com/us/Chrome-Devices/Chromebit-CS10/

MaxVMH
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:26 pm

Re: Worth buying it ?

Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:06 pm

You don't really need it to do what you want to achieve - web development, coding python and installing linux can be done on any computer, but if you want to learn a bit about Linux it's fun to be able to do it on another device (if u mess something up or can't find something you can use your 'normal' computer to look on the internet).

Since you're into web development: one popular use for the Raspberry Pi is turning it into a webserver ;) You can also do this on your own computer, but a Raspberry Pi doesn't consume that much electricity in case you want to run it 24/7.
Webserver stack: 2x Pi 3B | 1x Pi 3B+ ||| Pi Zero W for fooling around

Working on a soccer prediction web app:
https://github.com/MaxVMH/mijnscore
Attempt at writing up-to-date tutorials on making a Raspberry Pi webserver:
http://blog.mijnscore.be/

PhatFil
Posts: 1437
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:55 pm
Location: Oxford UK

Re: Worth buying it ?

Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:40 pm

may i suggest you wait until you have a job for the pi to execute before you buy one. otherwise you could simply buy a dustcatcher.

meanwhile check out Virtual Machine tech with free s/w like Virtualbox https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads
You can install any *nix system you want to explore even raspbian ;)

jbudd
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:23 am

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:28 am

I'm new to programming ( learning web development, have knowledge of HTML/CSS/JS atm) and i just came across raspberry Pi and i really loved the idea of doing whatever you wish with it (Almost ) . i know raspberry runs an open source OS and i really want to go beyond my comfort zone of using just Windows and understand Linux as well . Also i really want to learn Python . My plans are just to widen my knowledge when it comes to computers and programming .i want it for education purposes first . So i just want hear suggestions . should i get it ? what else do i need to buy ? which model should i go for ? is it even good for a noob like me ?
Easiest question first: Which model to go for - Pi 3B with Raspbian, the official power supply and official case.
The 3B+ has slightly better performance for the same price, but it does seem to be very easy to kill.
I find tiny USB flash drives better than SD cards for practical reasons - easier to swap, harder to break or lose.
You don't need a keyboard and monitor. I find a perverse pleasure in using a £500 PC as a wireless keyboard, mouse and monitor for a £35 Pi,

Understanding Linux...
You will either find it refreshing or unsettling to use the Linux command line tools.
You tell the computer what you want it to do, it does it. There is no "Do you want to do that?" popup, there is no Undo, there is no "Ok I did that for you." feedback.
I don't use the Pi desktop much. Other people don't use the command line much.

It is definitely a good idea to have a project in mind. Something like "I want to use Python to display the weather forecast and latest news on a web page" is probably better than "I want to learn Python".

LTolledo
Posts: 2150
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:44 am

I'd say just go for it!

If you have the other peripherals available with you just get the board, its just $35 anyway.

There are kits available, better select depending on what you want (and have with you), and your budget.

Fun (for others frustrations :D ) starts when you have the item with you!
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

oldjake
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:39 pm

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:41 pm

Like Phatfil said, you need a purpose. I don't think it's any good buying one thinking you'll learn Python without an end goal. For me, it started with a smart mirror, then a RetroPie. Learned nothing about programming from either but did learn some good foundations for system administration. Security camera is a good one as well. Or just a digital camera to do some stop frame animation. That would get you going with Python. Home automation as well. Something that will benefit you right now rather than just being a neat trick.

I've lost count of how many I have now.

hippy
Posts: 6244
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:07 pm

I'm another who would say "just do it".

Perhaps buy a cheaper second hand Pi to start with to limit your investment if it turns out not to be your thing, not as useful as you thought it may be. Pi B+ would be my minimum recommendation - original B+, not 3B+.

Given the low cost I think you'll find your investment is worth it even if you don't do much. And you probably will find some use or get some worthwhile return from it.

If it is what's been missing in your life and you are driven to buy a more capable Pi you'll probably find some use for your first. Or can pass it on as a gift.

For learning Linux it's excellent. You can try anything, cause or risk no end of 'system damage', and still quickly get back up and running. Just make sure anything important is backed-up somewhere else.

Just getting things set-up, being able to transfer files between a PC to the Pi, having your web pages on the Pi shown by the Pi's browser on your TV or monitor, will probably be satisfying. I don't know why but it does feel different, better, more enjoyable, more worthwhile, than just setting up another beige box.

The main thing for me is the freedom to try anything. I can install anything, see how it is and change my mind, no problem, if it breaks something, no problem. Worse case is start again. I can do things I would never risk on my other computers which I need to keep working. Get two SD Cards and you easily have an 'active' and a 'risk anything' system, quickly swap between them.

User avatar
DarkPlatinum
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Unknown
Contact: Website YouTube

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:58 pm

jbudd wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:28 am


Easiest question first: Which model to go for - Pi 3B with Raspbian, the official power supply and official case.
The 3B+ has slightly better performance for the same price, but it does seem to be very easy to kill.

How so compared to 3B, and 2B?
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

Check Out My Raspberry Site (Run on a Raspberry Pi 3B :) ): https://html.dynu.net

jbudd
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:23 am

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:21 pm

How so? I guess you mean how is it easy to kill?

If you accidentally make a short circuit between gpio pin 1 and the metal plate with the raspberry logo on, it fries something either in the SoC or the power regulator chip.

A similar short circuit will kill any Pi but the metal cover on the 3B+ makes it a much easier mistake to make.

There are a few reports in the forum about 3B+s dieing like this. It isn't really clear that the short circuit is the only cause, but that particular enhancement has introduced a new frailty.

That's my personal interpretation. I don't know if the RPIF have an official public view of the problem

User avatar
DarkPlatinum
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Unknown
Contact: Website YouTube

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:22 pm

jbudd wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:21 pm
How so? I guess you mean how is it easy to kill?

If you accidentally make a short circuit between gpio pin 1 and the metal plate with the raspberry logo on, it fries something either in the SoC or the power regulator chip.

A similar short circuit will kill any Pi but the metal cover on the 3B+ makes it a much easier mistake to make.

There are a few reports in the forum about 3B+s dieing like this. It isn't really clear that the short circuit is the only cause, but that particular enhancement has introduced a new frailty.

That's my personal interpretation. I don't know if the RPIF have an official public view of the problem
Wow! i thought the metal plate was only for dissipating heat.... why is it connected t <CPU
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

Check Out My Raspberry Site (Run on a Raspberry Pi 3B :) ): https://html.dynu.net

jbudd
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:23 am

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:26 pm

Maybe it dissipates heat to the ground plane of the PCB (if such a thing exists on the pi)

Actually I think the principal reason for a case around the WiFi is that it makes it easier to get certification for the Pi. Heat dissipation is a bonus.

If my 3b+ wasn't already dead, I'd probably paint that cover with nail varnish. But since it is, I'm waiting for the 4.

User avatar
DarkPlatinum
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Unknown
Contact: Website YouTube

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:48 pm

jbudd wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:26 pm
Maybe it dissipates heat to the ground plane of the PCB (if such a thing exists on the pi)

Actually I think the principal reason for a case around the WiFi is that it makes it easier to get certification for the Pi. Heat dissipation is a bonus.

If my 3b+ wasn't already dead, I'd probably paint that cover with nail varnish. But since it is, I'm waiting for the 4.
If if not out next year, your gonna be waiting quite some time. Im waiting for it too, fingers crossed for 4gb ram :P
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

Check Out My Raspberry Site (Run on a Raspberry Pi 3B :) ): https://html.dynu.net

hippy
Posts: 6244
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Worth buying it ?

Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:54 pm

DarkPlatinum wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:58 pm
jbudd wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:28 am
The 3B+ has slightly better performance for the same price, but it does seem to be very easy to kill.
How so compared to 3B, and 2B?
For older Pi's; shorting out the 3V3 or 5V to 0V seems to activate the polyfuse protection, shuts everything down. Leave it a while and, with a fair wind, everything would come back to normal, the Pi would work again.

With a Pi 3B+; shorting 3V3 to 0V seems more permanent. It appears the PMIC shuts down, the polyfuse protection doesn't kick in, and the PMIC then never generates 3V3 again leaving the Pi unable to boot and unusable. Replacing the PMIC has been reported by one member as having restored operations, but replacing the PMIC is not an easy task.

The full story as to what's going on with the 3B+ hasn't yet been determined or has not been revealed.

User avatar
bertlea
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 6:33 am
Location: Hong Kong

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:57 am

Do you think is it OK to use USB flash drive as storage for always-on headless pi? Mine is also model-b. Can it cause any problems in long term?
It is perfectly fine to use USB flash drive as storage for always-on headless pi. I use it that way for pi server for over a year using the same USB flash drive now and no issue found. The one I got has metal case, so it should also help a bit to make my server cooler.

Code: Select all

~ $ uptime
 09:47:37 up 144 days, 23:57,  3 users,  load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00
 
:mrgreen:

W. H. Heydt
Posts: 11087
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:36 pm
Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:10 am

DarkPlatinum wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:48 pm
Im waiting for it too, fingers crossed for 4gb ram :P
Your fingers are going to be badly cramped before that happens. While RAM prices are coming back down, if the Pi4B comes out next Spring, I will be mildly surprised if it has more than 1GB DRAM and extremely surprised if it has more than 2GB.

User avatar
DarkPlatinum
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Unknown
Contact: Website YouTube

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:45 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:10 am
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:48 pm
Im waiting for it too, fingers crossed for 4gb ram :P
Your fingers are going to be badly cramped before that happens. While RAM prices are coming back down, if the Pi4B comes out next Spring, I will be mildly surprised if it has more than 1GB DRAM and extremely surprised if it has more than 2GB.
If it has 1GB, I'm probably not going buy one :cry: . Im hoping for 2GB or more. Hopefully ddr3 ram and a 0.3-0.5ghz clock boost. :)
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

Check Out My Raspberry Site (Run on a Raspberry Pi 3B :) ): https://html.dynu.net

jahboater
Posts: 4840
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:47 am

hippy wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:07 pm
I'm another who would say "just do it".
Yes. Me too.
The Pi is perfect for learning Linux and Python.
I'll repeat whats been said above: it you make a mistake and trash the OS, it will be back working again in a few minutes at zero cost.

You can very easily try multiple OS's. The entire system is on a cheap micro-SD card, so its easy to experiment.
hippy wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:07 pm
Perhaps buy a cheaper second hand Pi to start with to limit your investment if it turns out not to be your thing, not as useful as you thought it may be. Pi B+ would be my minimum recommendation - original B+, not 3B+.
I don't agree with this.
The 3B+ is much faster than the old B+ (10x or more faster). The B+ would appear to "freeze" as it does simple things especially when the desktop is running. The new 3B+ on the other hand is more like a normal desktop PC in power, and is very usable.

Unlike the old B+, the 3B+ has on-board Wifi (including 5GHz) with a decent antenna. The ethernet is 3x faster. Twice the memory (1GB)
The 3B+ has modern quad core ARM Cortex-a53 CPU's (armv8 - capable of running 64-bit OS's). (The old B+ was a single core armv6).
And so on ....

Then you would have to actually find a B+ for sale ...

ti994/a
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2014 11:00 pm

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:04 am

Just go for it. I home educate my children and we use the Pi 3B+ as the centre of our IT learning. It’s great for Scratch, Python, electronics and watching instructional videos from the web. At the end of the day it’s £32 so worth a punt if you already have a TV/monitor with HDMI input.

hippy
Posts: 6244
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:07 am

jahboater wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:47 am
Then you would have to actually find a B+ for sale ...
True. They are sold on eBay and CeX in the UK seem to see a steady flow. I would agree the 3B+ is likely the best option though, given the number of reports of them just stopping working for no obvious reason, I would be inclined to recommend a 3B.

It was more a suggestion for investing less than a 3B+ costs; usually less than half as much and not so demanding when it comes to a PSU. The way I see it; a B+ is a Zero with added LAN and USB. Not as good as later Pi's but good enough to get started and not too hard to get started with.

jahboater
Posts: 4840
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 pm

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:11 am

ti994/a wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:04 am
At the end of the day it’s £32 so worth a punt if you already have a TV/monitor with HDMI input.
If you don't already have one, the monitor is the most expensive thing you need for a Pi system.
You can run a Pi "headless" without a monitor/mouse/keyboard, using your main PC or laptop to access it.

Hopefully, in time, you will come to think of the £32 for the Pi is the best you have ever spent for fun and learning!!

LTolledo
Posts: 2150
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:30 am

For programming and general desktop / internet browsing usage, and will not do any GPIO stuffs, the RPi3B+ is my pick.

if want to tinker with GPIOs and other electronics/modules, an RPi1B+, or RPiA+, or RPiZW accessed via VNC from RPi3B+ is my pick. (actually that's how I do things here). Those are "cheaper" to break... but can actually withstand some nasty mistakes and recover from it.

Well, you wont know until you have one in your hand....
jahboater wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:47 am
Then you would have to actually find a B+ for sale ...
Good thing I can actually get this anytime I want in my place.
But finding hard to get the RPi2B rev1.1.... as the stocks are always v1.2
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

hippy
Posts: 6244
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: UK

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:41 am

jahboater wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:11 am
If you don't already have one, the monitor is the most expensive thing you need for a Pi system.
True if buying new, and I would have said that was true regardless a year or so ago. These days I'm picking up brand-name 19" DVI-D monitors and larger for £5-£10 in charity and second-hand shops. SD cards and PSU's are often more expensive !

User avatar
DarkPlatinum
Posts: 853
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:30 pm
Location: Unknown
Contact: Website YouTube

Re: Worth buying it ?

Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:03 pm

Imagine if the RPI foundation added a mini screen to the Pi if you didn't have a monitor :p
1 * Raspberry Pi Zero W, 1 * Raspberry Pi 2, 1 * Raspberry Pi 3 1 * Raspberry Pi 3B + :mrgreen:

Check Out My Raspberry Site (Run on a Raspberry Pi 3B :) ): https://html.dynu.net

Return to “General discussion”