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HawaiianPi
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:03 am

For the forum, switch to the prosilver theme. It makes navigation easier.

As for the main raspberrypi.org site, I don't really care one way or another. I usually just go there to click on one of the links at the top, the they're still there, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It does seem to be targeted at a younger audience, but that's the mission isn't it? Get inexpensive computers into the hands of youngsters and encourage them to learn to code. So it makes sense to me.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

Heater
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:59 am

I've restrained myself from commenting on the layout, aesthetics, content of the thing.

But really, a 3.5MB download and a load time of 30 seconds over a mobile connection is not good for a home page no matter what you think of it's looks.

DirkS
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:10 am

jamesh wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:35 pm
Not even asked to test it and comment. Not sure the new title bar over the forums matches the phpbb stuff below it.
The title bar over the forums doesn't match the title bar on the rest of the site (fonts are 'fatter' on the rest of the site)

DirkS
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:15 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:03 am
For the forum, switch to the prosilver theme. It makes navigation easier.
Because of that I used prosilver (which I really don't like) until the previous changes (last year)
the RPi theme looks pretty good and navigation has much improved.

mikerr
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:16 am

Why not mention "new website theme" in the thread title ... you should know better, Dougie !
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DougieLawson
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:23 am

mikerr wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:16 am
Why not mention "new website theme" in the thread title ... you should know better, Dougie !
I was too busy vomiting into the paper bag.

It really is hideous.
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grega
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:53 am

Changing the homepage for the first time in ~ 4 years was always going to rattle the cage ;)

Interestingly, the homepage is now loading (and thus becomes usable) 3x faster than the previous one (mean avg over 13 distributed regions), always plenty more work to do and critical feedback is most welcome, but the "I don't like/understand JavaScript and CSS!!" arguments are a bit dull.

re. Chrome 49 - I'd recommend an update.
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Gavinmc42
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:04 am

Needs some tunes, perhaps tones when mousing over the wobbly bits.

Oh dear the Blender tutorials are not on the Pi, I was expecting some magic speed up :(
https://projects.raspberrypi.org/en/pro ... y-monkey/2
Time to fix that :D
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hippy
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:28 am

grega wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:53 am
re. Chrome 49 - I'd recommend an update.
So would I but that's the latest version of Chrome which Google supports on the PC I am using.

If anyone wants to send me the money to upgrade my PC and OS or buy me a better one they are more than welcome to do so.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:55 am

Is it supposed to work on Pi's?
Even my Pi3B+ Gentoo64 with Firefox is little slow, all 4 cores get a work out when moving the mouse around.
Makes you wonder what hardware the web designers are using? i7's with GTX1080?
Give them Pi's, that will teach them coding, whoops that might get me banned again ;)
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

hippy
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:57 am

grega wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:53 am
Interestingly, the homepage is now loading (and thus becomes usable) 3x faster than the previous one (mean avg over 13 distributed regions), always plenty more work to do and critical feedback is most welcome
True; it loads and renders pretty fast for me, on my desktop PC and on my Pi 3B. It's somewhat slow to respond to mouse-over events and activate animations on the Pi using Chromium but that's to be expected.

The problem for me is the look and feel. It seems that's going to be like Marmite.

Can you not keep what you have while also providing an alternative version lighter on graphics and animations ? That should keep everyone happy.

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recantha2
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:02 am

I was trying not to comment negatively when I saw the page initially, so I've had a think about it. Take this criticism for what it is: a design and implementation expert with a big interest in the Pi looking at it from his point of view.

Firstly, Epoc's comment:
The banner on top of page uses 2 pictures, and sharp geometric figures. The next section is all soft. In the "community" banner the geometric design comes back... I'm not convinced the contrast adds clarity to the page. Overall I think the page is very busy and the various sections are not easy to identify.
is quite correct - there is an awful lot of different styles going on here. There is also way too much colour on the page. I suspect that a style guide was worked out and then given to the designer who felt that he/she had to use positively every single colour in the book. I'm not saying that every website has to be corporate, bare and sterile, but the page is very hard on the eye when you're scrolling through trying to find what you want.

Secondly, can you buy a Raspberry Pi? You know what? I think you just might be able to, given that there are *three* buy links at the top of the page. They all go to the same place, too. I can understand that it's quite important to give people the ability to buy Raspberry Pis, or at least give them links to do so, but one would do. The Buy for Business, especially, is ridiculous given that it goes to the same place as the link directly above it.

"People are doing incredible things with Raspberry Pi every day. Here’s the latest from our blog:" Unfortunately, the blog doesn't always feature people doing incredible things with the Raspberry Pi specifically. Looking at it right now: Hackspace magazine is pretty agnostic, to it's benefit, but it's not really about people doing things with the Pi. Learn how to document your code isn't really a Pi thing, it's a general thing. Eight(ish) projects is appropriate. The Jura whisky thing is appropriate. Stories are going to need to be hand-picked and more Pi-specific for the heading to work.

A word about navigation. The headings at the top are fine, but you're missing an easy-to-find link to the Projects sub-site (which still doesn't have a way to search it or to see what's new, but that's how it's been since resources were first added to the site, unfortunately). The nav on the Forums doesn't match style-wise, either.

The purple block for 'find a club near you' is unnecessary as you've already got links to the three options directly above. The page is so large, duplicates of content are not necessary.

The Books and magazines block looks good, although it does have, yet again, another visual style to the rest of the page.

Make something with code is so far down the page, I would probably have got bored if I was a kid, which I think is what the page has been designed for. This is where your rich content is - the how-to activity guides on projects.raspberrypi.org. You should probably be treating the projects content as the jewel in the crown, but that's just my opinion.

Your mission statement at the bottom is a duplicate of the text in the top-right box. Admittedly, it's longer. if you want to say that stuff, and you think it's important, you should be saying it 'up front' and certainly shouldn't repeat yourself at the bottom where nobody will go.

Sign up to our newsletter is a call to action and should be much higher if you want people to actually do it. If you don't, it shouldn't be on the page. Again, social-media wise - if you want people to engage with you on Social Media by finding you off the homepage, this should be nearer (or along) the top.

Again, this is just my opinion, but I do websites all day every day so feel I've at least got the experience to give an informed opinion.
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grega
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:06 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:55 am
Makes you wonder what hardware the web designers are using? i7's with GTX1080?
Quite a mix, for me: 1.2 GHz Intel Core M w/ Intel HD Graphics 5300

We test on a variety of Pis (often over VNC, where performance is further impacted).

However as mentioned above, work is ongoing (/ never-ending) especially where it comes to performance, device support and accessibility.

Thank you to those posting reasonable (rather than unsubstantiated) criticisms / feedback.
Software Engineer, Raspberry Pi Foundation

epoch1970
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:16 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:23 am
I was too busy vomiting into the paper bag.
New swag?! :D
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grega
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:49 am

hippy wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:57 am
That should keep everyone happy.
I love your optimism :D
Software Engineer, Raspberry Pi Foundation

hippy
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:00 pm

grega wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:49 am
hippy wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:57 am
That should keep everyone happy.
I love your optimism :D
True. Maybe I should have said; will make some people happier.

But what about the idea itself ?

gkreidl
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:03 pm

grega wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:06 am
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:55 am
Makes you wonder what hardware the web designers are using? i7's with GTX1080?
Quite a mix, for me: 1.2 GHz Intel Core M w/ Intel HD Graphics 5300

We test on a variety of Pis (often over VNC, where performance is further impacted).

However as mentioned above, work is ongoing (/ never-ending) especially where it comes to performance, device support and accessibility.

Thank you to those posting reasonable (rather than unsubstantiated) criticisms / feedback.
The first thing a designer should learn is the well known "7 plus/minus 2" rule (in psychology of perception and awareness): The human consciousness cannot access more than 7 (plus/minus 2) items at the same time. Everything cluttered with more content just creates confusion.

Design should enhance information (or the process of accessing information), not distract attention from the message or information. Fading or wobbling images (in fact everything which is moving) just distract the viewers attention.

I've learned a lot about it when stuyding typography (to write typesetting software): The best typography is the one the reader doesn't notice at all: he is just feeling well while reading. Usually people cannot say, if the typography used in a document is good or bad, but they will get tired much sooner while reading if typography is bad.

Overall the new website design tries to impress people instead of concentrating on transporting the message. It's similar to many bad TV spots: people remember the funny ape or the sexy woman, but not the product which is being advertised.
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bensimmo
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:57 pm

There is a problem in Edge with the top pictures (the one with the forward slash styling through it)
On Edge, apart from this is a vertical half and half and not a slashed half and half.
the right side (collection of Pi and People looking interested ..) always covers the BUY bag (until it switches to narrow mobile layout and the bag orientation changes).

This is cutting edge Edge, the latest version. I have reported this difference to MS via Feedback with pictures.

But, just incase you can see the problem in code.




And I still think the 'new to pi, getting started' should be near the first thing you see, not way down after everything else after you're past the advertisements.

And goddamit get that mobile three bar menu fixed, it's doing me 'ead in.

jbudd
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:17 pm

On my PC using Firefox, the font on the front page switches between bold and normal when you reload the page.
That makes me think the CSS is over complex and not fully debugged.
Same thing on first load with Edge too.

Edit: The font changes when you reload with Chrome, Brave or Dolphin (Android) too. The page shudders as it loads. Looks pretty shoddy IMHO.

I just scrolled down for the first time... It's quite a long page! Obviously I didn't read anything down there; if it was important it would be at the top of the page! :P

I did see that LED icon though, just above the puddle of squared paper and was surprised to find it isn't a hyperlink.

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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:30 pm

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 am
You are all a bunch of grumpy old men :lol:
Yes. Yes, I am. But my wife, an even older grumpy old woman, has even shorter shrift for gewgaws and animation on web sites than I do.

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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:36 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:03 am
For the forum, switch to the prosilver theme. It makes navigation easier.

As for the main raspberrypi.org site, I don't really care one way or another. I usually just go there to click on one of the links at the top, the they're still there, so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ It does seem to be targeted at a younger audience, but that's the mission isn't it? Get inexpensive computers into the hands of youngsters and encourage them to learn to code. So it makes sense to me.
That kind of begs the question.... Yes, the target audience for the *Pi* is kids, often relatively young kids. But shouldn't the web site be attractive to the kids *parents* (or, in my case, grandparents) who will be--at least initially--looking for information, advice, and help in getting their kids (grandkids) started with the Raspberry Pi? , Is this a case of designing the web site for the target population for the product instead of for the population that will be buying the product, which may very well be a radically different group?

Heater
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Re: A new level of seasickness - Or how I learnt to stop worrying and love the new website

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:42 pm

Gavinmc42,
You are all a bunch of grumpy old men...
Don't be ageist. I have been grumpy my whole life.

It's not about age. It's about having a low threshold for crap.

Either you have it, or you don't.

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DougieLawson
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Re: A new level of seasickness - Or how I learnt to stop worrying and love the new website

Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:42 pm

The moderator who changed my thread title clearly has a love of Dr. Strangelove - well done.
Microprocessor, Raspberry Pi & Arduino Hacker
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Re: A new level of seasickness - Or how I learnt to stop worrying and love the new website

Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:12 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:42 pm
The moderator who changed my thread title clearly has a love of Dr. Strangelove - well done.
Why, thank you!
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Please direct all questions to the forum, I do not do support via PM.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: A new level of seasickness - Or how I learnt to stop worrying and love the new website

Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:16 pm

I don't really mind the changes, its just the fact that the new changes don't seem to work across all browsers.
I'm starting to think maybe I should jump on my PC and have a squiz at exactly what happens under the hood.
User experiencing technical difficulties.

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