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DougieLawson
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A new level of seasickness - Or how I learnt to stop worrying and love the new website

Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:59 pm

What's with all the wibbly wobbly things on https://raspberrypi.org? Can I have a big red switch to turn off that new CSS crap? I don't like wibbly wobbly web pages they make me feel seasick.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:04 pm

I didn't notice anything in particular moving, but I agree with you on the principle. Also...that is one *radical* change to the front page. I sometimes wonder if web sites get changed just because they can and not to accomplish a relevant goal.

DirkS
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:09 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:04 pm
I didn't notice anything in particular moving,
Just hover over the raspberry and the 'buy' thingie at the top of any page

W. H. Heydt
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:42 pm

DirkS wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:09 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:04 pm
I didn't notice anything in particular moving,
Just hover over the raspberry and the 'buy' thingie at the top of any page
Ah. That explains it. Not something I do unless I plan to click on an icon. I scrolled down looking for the blog "thimbnails" and when I didn't find them, I scrolled back to the top to click on the blog link to see what was new and if I wnated to read it. Then I clicked on the Forums link...where I'll probably leave all day. (Being retired, I just leave about 4 sites open all the time.)

hippy
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:24 pm

Looks like a website "for kids, and designed by kids". I guess I'm not their target audience.

It reminds me of the Good Old Days, people's first forays into HTML and throwing everything they had discovered into the mix before coming to understand that just because one can doesn't mean one should, that style is more than about making an impact.

I was a little disappointed to not see any scrolling and flashing marquee text at the bottom.

On a more constructive note; the images in the "Astro Pi" and "Volunteer-led clubs" sections randomly disappear on mouse-over using Chrome 49.

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DougieLawson
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:25 pm

That stuff doesn't make the website any prettier or any easier to use, it just increases the load time for no apparent benefit (and is therefore 100% pointless). If I can adblock the Javascript I'll do that, else I'll have to look at coding a Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey script to knacker it.
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hippy
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:36 pm

https://raspberrypi.workable.com

Current openings : Senior Web Developer, Graphic Designer

:lol:

Heater
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:07 pm

Dougie,

I would not worry about the JS when it comes to load times. That page is 3.5MB the JS is only 100KB of that or so. That is far to much JS of course most of it is not needed. But there is much other bloat to worry about first.

I do worry about all the tracking info about us that gets sent off to google analytics and shopify. Which is another pile of useless JS to wait for. Why for goodness sake?

I would not worry about JS when it comes to crappy animations either. Those cunning web designers can make crappy animations using just CSS.

I do worry that the whole edifice can take a minute download over my mobile connection.

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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:13 pm

hippy wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 5:24 pm
It reminds me of the Good Old Days, people's first forays into HTML and throwing everything they had discovered into the mix before coming to understand that just because one can doesn't mean one should, that style is more than about making an impact.
My wife's web site, www.kithrup/com/~djheydt is my first (and only--so far) web site. We both have rather pedestrian ideas about what is a "good" web design. Since the HTML is all hand coded, it should be pretty light weight, as well.

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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:35 pm

Don't ask me - first thing I knew about the change was last night.

Not even asked to test it and comment. Not sure the new title bar over the forums matches the phpbb stuff below it.
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hippy
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:54 pm

PIORG.jpg
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PIORG2.jpg
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Heater
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:58 pm

Was it designed by that cool dude that keeps advertising to me on Youtube: "I created this really dope website using Wix, let me show you how"

Good grief.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:03 pm

Well this explains why my preferred browser no longer works on this forum. Trying to click login takes me to the raspberrypi home page or the help page.
Actually, most things I click, now do that.
Thank goodness my backup browser doesn't have troubles with it.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

epoch1970
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:12 pm

(Idle question. I wonder what the age average of the people participating in this thread would be.)

First off, congratulations on the website project. The Pi has an impact, it deserves a site that has some impact too.

I'm not sea sick, but I don't find the new page visually cohesive and I failed to find the logic in it.
I've looked at it a grand total of one minute, so take my opinion for what it is.

Logic:
- You've put your Mission at the bottom of the page, why? I say move it up and center, ditch the useless "little hands over a PC keyboard" (actually, mature hands over a small keyboard :D) picture if you need space.
The mission statement says it all: "This is Pi. Affordable. To let people do stuff." Right under/next to it, you could stick the Buy, and Do sections.
- I would forget the "buy for business" widget. You have a big footer with all the boring stuff, just put the link there (and make it point to something actually different from the regular store page). A "professional" buyer will look for contact/legal info and other minutia and will scan the bottom of the page. Or open business.raspberrypi.org for that purpose.
- There is a menu bar with topics. I would expect the various sections of the long front page would match those topics; but I am not sure they do. The menu (and old site) used color codes, does the new front page follow the same code?

Visual cohesion:
- So you have this immense front page and wobbly JS effects, I guess that's fine (although everybody will agree here a good HTML page is only written with emacs). But why does the menu bar send you to other pages? To me clicking on a menu bar item should scroll that big page to the corresponding section. Then click on a section item and go to another page.
- The banner on top of page uses 2 pictures, and sharp geometric figures. The next section is all soft. In the "community" banner the geometric design comes back... I'm not convinced the contrast adds clarity to the page. Overall I think the page is very busy and the various sections are not easy to identify.

Again, I am posting in a positive spirit. HTH and keep up the good work.
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bensimmo
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:25 pm

Can you feedback, when in narrow/mobile mode and we have the 3 lines for a menu, too often than not when clicking the X to close said menu, it activates as Blog.
Tried it on the pc, two tablets and a few mobiles.

It f-ing annoying to then have to use the back button/triangle doobery on Android to get back to where you where.

hippy
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:38 pm

Heater wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:07 pm
That page is 3.5MB the JS is only 100KB of that or so.
I'll take your word for it. That's incredible bloat. I'm not against decoration and pretty graphics to draw people in; but for what amounts to about 3.5KB of actual information on the page -

Code: Select all

Raspberry Pi - A small and affordable computer that you can use to learn programming

<Buy a Raspberry Pi>
<Buy for business>

Our mission is to put the power of computing and digital making into the hands of people all over the world <About us>

<HackSpace Magazine 9: tools,tools,tools>
<Learn how to document your code>
<Eight(ish) Raspberry Pi projects for the summer>
<Dialling into local sties with Jura phones>
<More from the blog>

Learn and teach through making

<Picademy> Discover our free face-to-face professional development programme that supports educators

<Hello World> Subscribe to the free computing and digital making magazine for educators 

Free online courses. Join one of our free online training courses and discover a new way to learn about computing and digital making <Find out more>

Meet us at an event

Get hands-on with digital making activities and chat to our team about our initiatives and support for you <See all events>

Astro Pi

<Enter our science and coding challenge for students and young people to be in with the chance to run your experiment on the International Space Station>

Volunteer-led clubs

<Code Club>
<CodeDojo>
<Raspberry Jam>

Find a club near you. 

We’re the world’s largest network of free computing clubs. Join in!

<Code Club>
<CodeDojo>
<Raspberry Jams>

Volunteer

Help young people learn to code and build your own skills by volunteering at one of our clubs. <Get involved>

Books & magazines

The MagPi issue 71 - Run Android on your Raspberry Pi with the latest issue of The MagPi! <Read it now>
HackSpace issue 9 - Everything you need to build (almost) anything <Read it now>
<The official Raspberry Pi Beginner's book>
<ahckinga nd Making in Minecraft>
<The Raspberry Pi Annual 2018>
<The Raspberry Pi Projects Book Vol. 3>
<Find 100s more books and magazines in the Raspberry Pi Press shop>

Make something with code

<Getting started with the Raspberry Pi> Set up your Raspberry Pi and explore what it can do
<Rock band> Make your own musical instruments with code blocks
<Happy birthday> Make an online birthday card on a webpage

Visit our projects site for tons of fun, step-by-step project guides withRaspberry Pi

<HTML/CSS>
<Python>
<Scratch>
<Blender>

Our mission is to put the power of computing and digital making into the hands of people all over the world. We do this so that more people are able to harness the power of computing and digital technologies for work, to solve problems that matter to them, and to express themselves creatively.

About Us

<About us>
<Our team>
<Governance>
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<Contact us>

Support

<Help>
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Sign up to our newsletter <EMAIL>

Raspberry Pi Foundation UK Registered Charity 1129409

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<Trademark rules and brand guidelines>
epoch1970 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:12 pm
(Idle question. I wonder what the age average of the people participating in this thread would be.)
Old to ancient would be my guess. The cool kids are probably going to rally over here -

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=218517

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Paeryn
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:31 pm

I've only looked at the main page on my phone and only because of this thread (I'm not really the target audience for the main page), but to me it definitely has the look of "how can we show as little information as possible using the most amount of space". I've got a decent sized screen on my phone and there is usually one (and the odd two) items per full-screen.

Usually when I'm searching for things online, if I get taken to a site that wastes so much space the first thing I do is go back to the search and look for another site, I would only go back to see what content they have if I absolutely couldn't find what I needed elsewhere. So to me, if I came to the new home page as a new (or potentially new) user I would be put off, it screams at me "this site is more concerned with trying to look attractive rather than be useful".

The menu isn't very well implemented, apart from the issue of it taking up the entire screen just for 6 words, you can still scroll the page behind it and if you do the cross to close the menu scrolls off the top as it's on the page itself rather than the menu.
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ejolson
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:57 pm

Paeryn wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:31 pm
The menu isn't very well implemented, apart from the issue of it taking up the entire screen just for 6 words, you can still scroll the page behind it and if you do the cross to close the menu scrolls off the top as it's on the page itself rather than the menu.
I pushed the back button to make the menu go away. It went away as did the rest of the website which I then had to reload.

The main reason I can think of for changing the site is to make it load faster when using a Pi Zero or one of the other single-core models. However, I'm not sure that is what happened.

asavah
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:59 pm

Note to self: never ever visit any raspberrypi.org pages except the forums, but even the forums got slightly screwed.

The design is IMO horrible, all this colors and effects steal the focus from the actual _content_.
Have anyone looked at the html source ? It's pure pain to look at.
A clear example of what NOT to do when designing a site.


@Liz can you hire a decent designer, pretty please?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:23 am

Another minor annoyance...it used to be that if you were looking at the forum listing, you could very quickly get tt the bottom of the listing and click the "Board Index" link to do a refresh and return to the top. Now there is too much boiler plate down there and the button scrolls off the top of the screen if you do that. To be fair, much of what is at the bottom of the page now is probably a good idea, but I miss the old functionality.

hippy
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:07 am

Forum ... A few mentions about that which confused me.

The forum looks exactly the same for me as it always has. But is different when viewed with another browser, perhaps because I've never logged in with that, no cookies set ?

Does it depend on which theme is selected or is it something else weird ?
FORUM.jpg
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gkreidl
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:07 am

I think it has all been said above (bloat, almost zero information content, slow, silly effects introduced so we all know the "designer" can do it ....). This is now the kind of website which I usually leave before it has even fully loaded.

The Foundation is all about education: please start by educating your "web designer". And revert to the old design, please.
Minimal Kiosk Browser (kweb)
Slim, fast webkit browser with support for audio+video+playlists+youtube+pdf+download
Optional fullscreen kiosk mode and command interface for embedded applications
Includes omxplayerGUI, an X front end for omxplayer

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Gavinmc42
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:09 am

I had to have a look ;)
Hey Blender tutorials, never found them before, so perhaps is is easier to use, if a bit wibbly wobbly.

You are all a bunch of grumpy old men :lol:
This probably explains why my home ip address is permanently blocked, website updated?
Probably a good idea as I will then do more coding instead of grumpy online forum posting ;)
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
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fruitoftheloom
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 5:44 am

Personally preferred website as was...

...but it is what it is and just have to get used to this change.


I have a large screen Android Smart Phone and do agree that a better implementation could of been achieved in Chrome Browser, whether in Mobile or Desktop Mode.
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

KanoMaster22
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Re: A new level of seasickness

Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:12 am

I have to click any of the bits at the top (blog, downloads etc.) twice to actually direct me to the right page. The first time I click them they just get a bit of colour under them.

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