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billybangleballs
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stopping for a rest

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:20 pm

I bought a pi3b+
I eventually got it to run after messing with rpi-update
But I was told that being ancient was bad, and that I might have problems.
The only problem I had was my network would suddenly freeze for 30 seconds or so and then carry on as if nothing had happened. The connections are not dropped, it's just as though it's stopping for a rest.
So I assumed that the sage advice I'd been given about being ancient was probably true.
Consequently I procured a new sdcard and 2018-03-13-raspbian-stretch
Two days later after spending an eternity setting up this and fiddling with that, I finally got it all working just as I like it, only the stopping for a rest is still happening. I tried both my sdcards in my original pi3 and the problem isn't there, but it is there on the pi3b+ and it's very annoying.
What makes me think it is network related is that I use rdesktop on the pi to drive a computer with a noisy fan in another part of the house, and when this stopping for a rest happens, I still have a responsive mouse and keyboard and can type into lxterminal and the like and get results, even while my remote desktop is seemingly frozen.

Any ideas?

Code: Select all

[email protected]:~ $ cat /proc/net/dev
Inter-|   Receive                                                |  Transmit
 face |bytes    packets errs drop fifo frame compressed multicast|bytes    packets errs drop fifo colls carrier compressed
    lo:    8044      53    0    0    0     0          0         0     8044      53    0    0    0     0       0          0
 wlan0: 33711235   30001    0    2    0     0          0      3191  1839879   17626    0    0    0     0       0          0
  eth0: 570075437  583683    0    3    0     0          0         0 71256366  319224    0    0    0     0       0          0
[email protected]:~ $

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HawaiianPi
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Re: stopping for a rest

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 pm

It isn't ancient, it's testing firmware that could have bugs and stability issues. You should not run rpi-update unless told to do so by someone from the Raspberry Pi support team.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:45 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:42 pm
It isn't ancient, it's testing firmware that could have bugs and stability issues. You should not run rpi-update unless told to do so by someone from the Raspberry Pi support team.
I was referring to my operating system being wheezy, not the new kernel and boot code.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: stopping for a rest

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:49 pm

Wheezy! :o :shock:
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

Heater
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Re: stopping for a rest

Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:57 pm

Why do that?

Get yourself a new Stretch image.

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:05 pm

Heater wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:57 pm
Why do that?

Get yourself a new Stretch image.
Which piece of "Consequently I procured a new sdcard and 2018-03-13-raspbian-stretch", are you finding confusing?
Or are you suggesting there has been a new release since Tuesday?

Heater
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Re: stopping for a rest

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:32 pm

I found the whole story confusing.

At first I thought you meant that you were ancient and needed to stop for a rest occasionally :)

And what has that noisy fan got to do with anything?

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:49 pm

Heater wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:32 pm
I found the whole story confusing.

At first I thought you meant that you were ancient and needed to stop for a rest occasionally :)

And what has that noisy fan got to do with anything?
Not wanting to appear rude, but if your entire 8786 posts are as helpful as your last two, can you please go help someone else.

jbudd
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:03 am

How often does it stop?

Linux might well swap your processes in and out as it keeps on top of it's mysterious housekeeping jobs. 30 seconds seems like a long rest though.

You could run "top" to try and spot what's using system resources instead.
It's (probably - never done it with Raspbian) possible to tweek how strongly a process holds on to it's memory and processor time slots with the "nice" command.

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:27 am

jbudd wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:03 am
How often does it stop?

Linux might well swap your processes in and out as it keeps on top of it's mysterious housekeeping jobs. 30 seconds seems like a long rest though.

You could run "top" to try and spot what's using system resources instead.
It's (probably - never done it with Raspbian) possible to tweek how strongly a process holds on to it's memory and processor time slots with the "nice" command.
It is random, I can't make it do it, or say when it will happen.

It does it irrespective of the cpu load or temperature.

I will try that top tomorrow, I have had to go back to using the pi3b because the the pi3b+ is really unusable.

It is definitely something in the hardware, because I'm using the same sdcard / os with no issues on this pi3b

I was transcoding a video earlier with avconv and I had a sustained 99% cpu meter and the temperature kept hitting 80.6° and the little red thermometer was flashing on the screen and then it stopped for a rest and the cpu dropped to 1%. The src and dst of the transcoding was on an nfs mount. 30 seconds later it started communicating again, but it was too late, it had already screwed up :-

Code: Select all

[h264 @ 0x1056240] Invalid nal size 39092B time=00:03:23.84 bitrate=5306.9kbits/s dup=3 drop=0 speed=0.114x
[h264 @ 0x1056240] Error splitting the input into NAL units.
VID_20180322_203228.3gp: Host is down078kB time=00:03:23.84 bitrate=5307.8kbits/s dup=3 drop=0 speed=0.114x
Error while decoding stream #0:0: Invalid data found when processing inputkbits/s dup=3 drop=0 speed=0.11x
frame= 6103 fps=3.2 q=-1.0 Lsize=  133948kB time=00:04:26.44 bitrate=4118.2kbits/s dup=3 drop=0 speed=0.14x
video:131628kB audio:2093kB subtitle:0kB other streams:0kB global headers:0kB muxing overhead: 0.169446%
I'm pretty sure it's the nic or related hw. I just don't know how to fix it.

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PeterO
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:35 am

Try leaving a "ping" to your NFS server running in a terminal window. If that stops (drops packets) when it "takes a rest" then it points to the PI's networking/nic. If it carries on , then it could be the NFS server end having a problem.

PeterO
Last edited by PeterO on Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jamesh
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:43 am

billybangleballs wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:27 am
It is definitely something in the hardware, because I'm using the same sdcard / os with no issues on this pi3b


I'm pretty sure it's the nic or related hw. I just don't know how to fix it.
Actually, that's the wrong takeaway. This is almost certainly a driver problem, which is software. The ethernet and wireless chips have both changed on the Pi3B+, and both have different drivers to the Pi3B.

We are looking in to various things, I believe there is at least one bug fix for the lan78xx driver in progress (ethernet). Worth remembering that there have been bug fixes for both ethernet and wireless over the lifetime of the Pi3B as well. This is a new device with new chips, there are often issues that come out of the woodwork once a large number of people use the device, that didn't happen during the beta test stage.
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PeterO
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:48 am

PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:35 am
Try leaving a "ping" to your NFS server running in a terminal window. If that stops (drops packets) when it "takes a rest" then it points to the PI's networking/nic. If it carries on , then it could be the NFS server end having a problem.

PeterO
When I wrote " it could be the NFS server end having a problem." I was thinking that it could be an NFS problem rather than a networking problem.
Also, try running a ping to another device on your network , that will help prove if it is or isn't a problem at the PI end.

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

royhenderson
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:57 am

Does the 3B+ temperature throttle? You mentioned hitting 80 ... just wondering if some form of cooling might be a solution? I have noticed the my 3B+ boards do seem to run warm even when idling ...

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:10 am

PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:35 am
Try leaving a "ping" to your NFS server running in a terminal window. If that stops (drops packets) when it "takes a rest" then it points to the PI's networking/nic. If it carries on , then it could be the NFS server end having a problem.

PeterO
I can try that , although why the windows box, the nfs server and the internet would all be having problems while the plucky pi3b+ is blameless, kind of defies logic.

There is nothing wrong with the sdcard/os as it works as it should in a pi3b
The nfs server has worked perfectly for 3 years or so and only has issues when I try to use the pi3b+
ditto for the windows box
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PeterO
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am

billybangleballs wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:10 am
I can try that , although why the windows box, the nfs server and the internet would all be having problems while the plucky pi3b+ is blameless, kind of defies logic.
You've missed the point. Just because your process that uses NFS is pausing doesn't mean the problem is with the networking.
Running a ping (to anywhere) will show if the PI's network stack and hardware are still functioning during the pause.

PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:11 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:43 am
billybangleballs wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:27 am
It is definitely something in the hardware, because I'm using the same sdcard / os with no issues on this pi3b


I'm pretty sure it's the nic or related hw. I just don't know how to fix it.
Actually, that's the wrong takeaway. This is almost certainly a driver problem, which is software. The ethernet and wireless chips have both changed on the Pi3B+, and both have different drivers to the Pi3B.

We are looking in to various things, I believe there is at least one bug fix for the lan78xx driver in progress (ethernet). Worth remembering that there have been bug fixes for both ethernet and wireless over the lifetime of the Pi3B as well. This is a new device with new chips, there are often issues that come out of the woodwork once a large number of people use the device, that didn't happen during the beta test stage.
Sorry James, I missed your reply.
Where do I get a patch for my lan78xx driver (and instructions on how to apply it), I don't mind testing any potential fixes. I have the bug, so I'm ideally placed to test the bugfix.

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:21 pm

royhenderson wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:57 am
Does the 3B+ temperature throttle? You mentioned hitting 80 ... just wondering if some form of cooling might be a solution? I have noticed the my 3B+ boards do seem to run warm even when idling ...
Yes Roy, it throttles nicely, and the temp never went above 80.6°C even during a sustained hammering. I think a heatsink would probably delay the throttling somewhat and keep your bogomips up there, but unless you're a bitcoin miner or are constantly transcoding video streams I don't know as it's really worth the effort.

uilfut
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:53 pm

Which power supply are you using - the official 2.5A one?

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:16 pm

uilfut wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:53 pm
Which power supply are you using - the official 2.5A one?
One that I built, good for 20amps or more.
If it was lack of volts, the yellow lightning icon would show on the desktop.
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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:48 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am
billybangleballs wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:10 am
I can try that , although why the windows box, the nfs server and the internet would all be having problems while the plucky pi3b+ is blameless, kind of defies logic.
You've missed the point. Just because your process that uses NFS is pausing doesn't mean the problem is with the networking.
Running a ping (to anywhere) will show if the PI's network stack and hardware are still functioning during the pause.

PeterO
I did as you suggested, I opened 3 lxterminals on the desktop, and and set each one to ping a different host on my network.

When it next decided to stop for a rest, I looked at the 3 lxterminals, and each one was saying

Code: Select all

ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
not just to the nfs server, not just to the grandstream phone and not just to the windows box
The network had just stopped.
After eight 'ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable's, the pings all started working again in unison. The sha256sum that was spooling a file from the nfs server took a good 30 seconds or more before it resumed.
I'm unsure whether the result is correct because of the outage, so I will do it again and compare.

Edit - The sha256sum returned was the same, so the 'rest' didn't break anything on this occasion.
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PeterO
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:08 pm

billybangleballs wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:48 pm
PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am
billybangleballs wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:10 am
I can try that , although why the windows box, the nfs server and the internet would all be having problems while the plucky pi3b+ is blameless, kind of defies logic.
You've missed the point. Just because your process that uses NFS is pausing doesn't mean the problem is with the networking.
Running a ping (to anywhere) will show if the PI's network stack and hardware are still functioning during the pause.

PeterO
I did as you suggested, I opened 3 lxterminals on the desktop, and and set each one to ping a different host on my network.

When it next decided to stop for a rest, I looked at the 3 lxterminals, and each one was saying

Code: Select all

ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
not just to the nfs server, not just to the grandstream phone and not just to the windows box
The network had just stopped.
After eight 'ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable's, the pings all started working again in unison. The sha256sum that was spooling a file from the nfs server took a good 30 seconds or more before it resumed.
I'm unsure whether the result is correct because of the outage, so I will do it again and compare.
Well that's pretty conclusive :D Is there anything in /var/log/syslog that helps ? It might show why the interface is going down and comming back up

Code: Select all

grep -a eth0 /var/log/syslog 
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:55 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:08 pm
billybangleballs wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:48 pm
PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am

You've missed the point. Just because your process that uses NFS is pausing doesn't mean the problem is with the networking.
Running a ping (to anywhere) will show if the PI's network stack and hardware are still functioning during the pause.

PeterO
I did as you suggested, I opened 3 lxterminals on the desktop, and and set each one to ping a different host on my network.

When it next decided to stop for a rest, I looked at the 3 lxterminals, and each one was saying

Code: Select all

ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable
not just to the nfs server, not just to the grandstream phone and not just to the windows box
The network had just stopped.
After eight 'ping: sendmsg: Network is unreachable's, the pings all started working again in unison. The sha256sum that was spooling a file from the nfs server took a good 30 seconds or more before it resumed.
I'm unsure whether the result is correct because of the outage, so I will do it again and compare.
Well that's pretty conclusive :D Is there anything in /var/log/syslog that helps ? It might show why the interface is going down and comming back up

Code: Select all

grep -a eth0 /var/log/syslog 
No, nothing about eth0 in any log
And it's not like the network goes down and things notice.
e.g. if I unplug the network cable, everything disconnects, rdesktop, putty sessions to remote shells, the whole lot just terminate their sessions. This doesn't bother anything, the sessions are still connected. It's damned annoying, and that in itself is enough, but it breaks things like transcoding from and to nfs. And just needs fixing.
Grumpy old man.
Ex-G0KAP - I'd rather be doing it than talking about it.
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PeterO
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:06 pm

That's not right... There should be lots of messages in there from dhcpcd
What does ifconfig say about the interface during the "pause" ?
PeterO
Discoverer of the PI2 XENON DEATH FLASH!
Interests: C,Python,PIC,Electronics,Ham Radio (G0DZB),1960s British Computers.
"The primary requirement (as we've always seen in your examples) is that the code is readable. " Dougie Lawson

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billybangleballs
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Re: stopping for a rest

Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:23 pm

PeterO wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:06 pm
That's not right... There should be lots of messages in there from dhcpcd
What does ifconfig say about the interface during the "pause" ?
PeterO
You are assuming that I'm not running with a static ip and that dhcpcd is aware of this and doesn't bug me.
Grumpy old man.
Ex-G0KAP - I'd rather be doing it than talking about it.
"When found, make a note of." - Captain Cuttle

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