smwatt0
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:49 am

Re: 64-bit operating system

Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:11 pm

jdb wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:45 pm
Heater wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:30 pm
It is not.

There are some odd things that need a 64 bit address space.

I believe MongoDB is one. If your database is bigger than 2GB.

CockroachDB can get by with 32 bits but needs tweaking to do so.

Of course nobody in their right mind is going to be using a Pi for huge databases. Except for experimentation.
Ok, so "database engines that memory map inordinately huge database files" is one valid reason. Any more?
In building interpreters, it is useful to be able to stash extra information in pointers, e.g. using low-order bits that would otherwise be all zero from alignment, or high order bits that would otherwise have fixed values. These tricks are used in some lisp and javascript implementations.

The problem with 32 bit pointers is that high-order bits eat too much in to address space, limiting the usable memory size. With 64 bit pointers there is lots of room for this extra information, even if memory is limited to 4GB. Of course it is always possible to allocate extra space in objects to contain the information, but that increases memory traffic.

ozbird
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:26 am

Re: 64-bit operating system

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:37 am

Sakaki has made a bootable 64-bit Gentoo Linux image for the Raspberry Pi 3 B/B+ and 4 B:
https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi-64bit

It's bleeding edge, but I've used it to bootstrap and (re)build a 64-bit Gentoo environment from source code - mostly; there's still a few binary dependencies that I haven't figured out yet. (Building from source is optional; it uses binary packages by default.)

If you have a spare microSD card kicking around, give it a go - you might like it.

Tiemen_S
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:19 pm

Re: 64-bit operating system

Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:47 am

algorithm wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:33 am
My guess is the change might be driven not by speed/addressing requirements (going forward) or backwards hardware compatibility, but software availability. E.g. I see VS Code and Electron are eol-ing their 32-bit support.
This! There's an increasing number of great projects that would be awesome to take for a testdrive on an RPi, but are 64-bit only nowadays.

The combination of ease-of-setup (SSH at first boot <3) with Raspbian compared to having to writing complete setup files/scripts with Ubuntu/Debian would just be awesome.

pica200
Posts: 219
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:27 am

Re: 64-bit operating system

Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:00 pm

That was quite a necro bump.

You can now run 64 bit software with little effort under Raspbian:
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=232417&start=125#p1621085

Heater
Posts: 16492
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: 64-bit operating system

Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:11 pm

Tiemen_S wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:47 am
The combination of ease-of-setup (SSH at first boot <3) with Raspbian compared to having to writing complete setup files/scripts with Ubuntu/Debian would just be awesome.
Could you explain what you mean there? Because it sounds totally backwards to me.

Having used Linux since 1997 or so and been around RedHat, Debian, Ubuntu and others I found they all had an SSH server up and running out of the box.

I was surprised when I found that Raspbian does not.

I can understand why perhaps. Normal distros have installers that require you to select a root password and default user name/password. Raspbian takes the less secure route by having a default username and password. Given that everyone knows that it makes sense to have SSH disabled.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

Tiemen_S
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2015 1:19 pm

Re: 64-bit operating system

Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:53 pm

Heater wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:11 pm
Could you explain what you mean there? Because it sounds totally backwards to me.

Having used Linux since 1997 or so and been around RedHat, Debian, Ubuntu and others I found they all had an SSH server up and running out of the box.

I was surprised when I found that Raspbian does not.

I can understand why perhaps. Normal distros have installers that require you to select a root password and default user name/password. Raspbian takes the less secure route by having a default username and password. Given that everyone knows that it makes sense to have SSH disabled.
Well, I mostly do headless setups for my Pi's (e.g. no screen/keyboard, just SSH). So anything that requires me to physically attach devices (except for an internet cable) essentially becomes a hassle. First order of business at that point is setting up keys and enabling only SSH login for security.

ejolson
Posts: 5751
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 11:47 am

Re: 64-bit operating system

Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:58 pm

Tiemen_S wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:53 pm
Heater wrote:
Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:11 pm
Could you explain what you mean there? Because it sounds totally backwards to me.

Having used Linux since 1997 or so and been around RedHat, Debian, Ubuntu and others I found they all had an SSH server up and running out of the box.

I was surprised when I found that Raspbian does not.

I can understand why perhaps. Normal distros have installers that require you to select a root password and default user name/password. Raspbian takes the less secure route by having a default username and password. Given that everyone knows that it makes sense to have SSH disabled.
Well, I mostly do headless setups for my Pi's (e.g. no screen/keyboard, just SSH). So anything that requires me to physically attach devices (except for an internet cable) essentially becomes a hassle. First order of business at that point is setting up keys and enabling only SSH login for security.
It's so difficult to install PC software without connecting a monitor and keyboard (or serial port) that almost all servers these days come with a baseboard management system that provides a virtual keyboard, video and mouse for installing software. The fact that Raspbian allows configuration before plugging an SD card is remarkable.

If only the Raspberry Pi rewrite of Etcher had a configuration windows for Raspbian (and the world were virus free), then everything would be perfect.

danky
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:07 pm

Re: 64-bit operating system

Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:11 pm

jamesh wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:01 pm
More than 4GB? Not happening for years.
And 640KB is enough for anybody! :mrgreen:

User avatar
clicky
Posts: 499
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:34 am

Re: 64-bit operating system

Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:45 am

ejolson wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:58 pm
If only the Raspberry Pi rewrite of Etcher had a configuration windows for Raspbian (and the world were virus free), then everything would be perfect.
Interesting suggestion. I agree...

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