mikerr
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:25 pm

Has the FM tuner antenna pin been brought out on this model ?
On the pi3 it is buried in the bt/wifi chip.
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midol
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm

scotty101 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 pm
midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:15 pm
why no USB3??? Lotsa fast devices would benefit
archive shows requests back to 2014, user satisfaction anywhere on the design list?
Some people are never happy. You can't have everything. This is an incremental update using the same SoC repackaged :evil:
yes the same people who were not happy in 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018, ignored and hand waving. the money the foundation is making will easily support a different chipset

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DougieLawson
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:41 pm

midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm
scotty101 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 pm
midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:15 pm
why no USB3??? Lotsa fast devices would benefit
archive shows requests back to 2014, user satisfaction anywhere on the design list?
Some people are never happy. You can't have everything. This is an incremental update using the same SoC repackaged :evil:
yes the same people who were not happy in 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018, ignored and hand waving. the money the foundation is making will easily support a different chipset
You really are clueless. The money the Raspberry Pi Foundation makes is set-aside to use for their Educational charity mission. It's not there for your pink ponies and unicorn desires for a small board computer.

I doubt you know how much investment is needed for a new system-on-a-chip.

I'm happy with all of my Raspberries and I'm still astounded what the RPF and RP(Trading)Ltd. folks are able to do for a £35 computer.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:46 pm

mikerr wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:06 pm
Raspberry Paul wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:36 pm
Is the POE adapter actually available? I can't find it for sale anywhere and also can't find any pictures of it

Raspi.tv says "new header connector (labelled PoE) which attaches to another new official Raspberry Pi product – a power over ethernet board. This board will be available on launch day"
https://blog.hackster.io/the-new-raspbe ... 23de8a8f5f

Farnell have it listed at $25 :

http://cpc.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/rpi ... dp/SC14884

while that seems expensive to me, its not available until April/May and price may change ?
it also blocks up all the gpio, so I'd hope it also gets a passthrough header eventually.
Ebon replied with a similar date schedule. When there is a slot to stick them all together.
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midol
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:52 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:41 pm
midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm
scotty101 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 pm

Some people are never happy. You can't have everything. This is an incremental update using the same SoC repackaged :evil:
yes the same people who were not happy in 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018, ignored and hand waving. the money the foundation is making will easily support a different chipset
You really are clueless. The money the Raspberry Pi Foundation makes is set-aside to use for their Educational charity mission. It's not there for your pink ponies and unicorn desires for a small board computer.

I doubt you know how much investment is needed for a new system-on-a-chip.

I'm happy with all of my Raspberries and I'm still astounded what the RPF and RP(Trading)Ltd. folks are able to do for a £35 computer.
nice that you are satisfied. I suppose improving i/o options and speeds is the pink pony you refer to yes? wildly unlikely to be desirable?

Since you are so fond of specifics why not say how much it would cost versus what is now spent?

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:09 pm

midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:52 pm
DougieLawson wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:41 pm
midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm


yes the same people who were not happy in 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018, ignored and hand waving. the money the foundation is making will easily support a different chipset
You really are clueless. The money the Raspberry Pi Foundation makes is set-aside to use for their Educational charity mission. It's not there for your pink ponies and unicorn desires for a small board computer.

I doubt you know how much investment is needed for a new system-on-a-chip.

I'm happy with all of my Raspberries and I'm still astounded what the RPF and RP(Trading)Ltd. folks are able to do for a £35 computer.
nice that you are satisfied. I suppose improving i/o options and speeds is the pink pony you refer to yes? wildly unlikely to be desirable?

Since you are so fond of specifics why not say how much it would cost versus what is now spent?

The current SoC which is a VC4 VPU with an ARM CPU attached was developed over the last 15-20 years, hence the upfront R,&D costs have been paid for by the various Companies who use/have used VC4 not just RPT.

If they use another SoC the whole board would need a complete redesign, full compliance testing etel.

Then they would need a whole new release of Raspbian, more time and cost.

Lastly if they built a new SBC they would have to insure it can not be cloned.

Until one understands it is not a 5 minute job then we could stop the idiotic I want requests.

The RPT / RPF are intelligent people and surmising otherwise is derogatory......
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:20 pm

midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm
scotty101 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 pm
midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:15 pm
why no USB3??? Lotsa fast devices would benefit
archive shows requests back to 2014, user satisfaction anywhere on the design list?
Some people are never happy. You can't have everything. This is an incremental update using the same SoC repackaged :evil:
yes the same people who were not happy in 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018, ignored and hand waving. the money the foundation is making will easily support a different chipset
If your not happy since 2014, why don't you just simply leave here and stop bothering the community?
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maximelebled
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:21 pm

Congrats to the foundation and its staff for this revision! It looks great.

I have a question... what exactly is going on in this picture? Official fan... in the back?

Image

EDIT: I found the answer in this article https://blog.hackster.io/meet-the-new-r ... 783103a147
Last edited by maximelebled on Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wildfire
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:27 pm

Damn you RPF, a new Pi 2 weeks after I purchased my last Pi 3b, Damn you to hell.

Pi 3b+ ordered though :D you can never have enough Pi.

@midol, I'm sure that there are other (more expensive) SBC's available that meet your requirements.
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DougieLawson
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:29 pm

midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:52 pm
Since you are so fond of specifics why not say how much it would cost versus what is now spent?
Because my crystal ball went offline in the Great Crystal Ball Disaster of 1982.

I don't know, I'd suspect multi-millions. The VC4 chip was developed for mobile phones.

I did a quick back of a fag packet calculation against the price of a Sinclair ZX80 with 1K RAM in 1979. That cost £49.95 (for the kit) plus an hour and a half of my time to solder it or £99.95 ready built.

If we feed that into http://www.in2013dollars.com we get £245 by applying inflation since then. That's the price of seven new RPi3B+ machines.

Are you still complaining about capabilty and cost? If you must have 4K video and more than 1GB of RAM then, sorry, the Raspberry Pi isn't for you. Go and find any other small board computer and pay the higher price for it.
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LeMoog
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:38 pm

6by9 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:23 pm
LeMoog wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:01 pm
Regarding MPG2 hardware/codec support, will this be enabled on all P3B+ since last of MPEG2 patents expired?

Might be a nice little advantage for P3B+ over P3B

see: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/1 ... g2_patent/
Previously covered, eg viewtopic.php?f=67&t=201449 and https://github.com/raspberrypi/firmware/issues/939
Correctly stated in the article:
The company that had the patents wrapped up for licensing, MPEG LA, told the world the last US patent expired on 13 February here.
The US isn't the only country in the world - patents still exist in other regions, namely Malaysia and the Philippines. Unless we prohibit sales of Pis into those regions, then there are licence fees to pay.
US hardware and software have to pay for an expired patent license if they wish to sell in Malaysia and the Philippines? more likely they would just disable the functionality for those regions or charge a premium over the rest of the world to cover licensing cost.

So if someone purchases a MPEG2 codec license outside of Malaysia and the Phiippines now then that is money for old rope? your saying that because those two areas must still charge then everyone else also has to pay? either way outside of those areas the money for MPEG2 license is no longer going to license holder, thats a bit dodgy. Admittedly I havent bought codecs since the Pi2 but my point still stands for those wanting hardware MPEG2 functionality

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:51 pm

LeMoog wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:38 pm
So if someone purchases a MPEG2 codec license outside of Malaysia and the Phiippines now then that is money for old rope? your saying that because those two areas must still charge then everyone else also has to pay? either way outside of those areas the money for MPEG2 license is no longer going to license holder, thats a bit dodgy. Admittedly I havent bought codecs since the Pi2 but my point still stands for those wanting hardware MPEG2 functionality
I'm not involved in any negotiations with MPEGLA, and as you can probably guess we've been a little busy recently.
I would suspect that there will be a conversation with them at some point, but my knowledge of last time is that it was fairly tortuous.
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RoySalisbury
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:14 pm

While I love the fact that the wireless portion is now "certified" (or closer to what needs to be obtained), and the CPU boost is welcome, there are still two things that I find as a major drawback for this upgrade.

1. Still stuck at 1GB RAM. Could have at least went to 2. 4 would be even better.
2. The lack of header breakouts for the USB connection. The only way to add some support (RS232, 485, RFID, ect) is via USB adapters. However, I can build a HAT that has all the hardware, but I still need to run a cable from my HAT to the USB connector on the Pi. I'd like to see some pins to connect a USB enabled chip (FTDI for example).

Small steps forward are great, but don't forget about some of the easy stuff that can add great benefit.

Roy

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:16 pm

mikerr wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:25 pm
Has the FM tuner antenna pin been brought out on this model ?
On the pi3 it is buried in the bt/wifi chip.
No - still disconnected and unused
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:23 pm

maximelebled wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:21 pm
I have a question... what exactly is going on in this picture? Official fan... in the back?
The fan isn't required when using PoE (or the Pi3+ generally) and will be software controlled (you can leave it turned off if you don't have thermal issues).
It was included partly as the PoE HAT has the space, and PoE is often used with racks of Pi boards which may be more likely to generate heat.

In normal usage Pi3+ heat dissipation is much better than a Pi3, so a fan isn't essential.

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:28 pm

dom wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:23 pm
The fan isn't required when using PoE (or the Pi3+ generally) and will be software controlled (you can leave it turned off if you don't have thermal issues).
It was included partly as the PoE HAT has the space, and PoE is often used with racks of Pi boards which may be more likely to generate heat.
I see this as bad design. They knew the PoE headers would require the hat as well, so should have just routed the power leads over. Could have made a tiny hat that may not have interfered with other hats. I'd like to just see the HAT specs and parts so I can just incorporate them onto my own HAT,

Roy

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:18 pm

Guys, how is A/V out on 3B+? And performance gain?
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:35 pm

Let's swap the order of these two statements:
RoySalisbury wrote:
I see this as bad design. They knew the PoE headers would require the hat as well, so should have just routed the power leads over.
Could have made a tiny hat that may not have interfered with other hats.
[...]
I'd like to just see the HAT specs and parts so I can just incorporate them onto my own HAT,

Roy
So you're complaining about the HAT design, without having seen the design?

For all you know the underside of the PoE hat could be carpeted in components - making it very difficult to either shrink the board to sub-HAT size or incorporate those components into another HAT.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:37 pm

RoySalisbury wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:28 pm
dom wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:23 pm
The fan isn't required when using PoE (or the Pi3+ generally) and will be software controlled (you can leave it turned off if you don't have thermal issues).
It was included partly as the PoE HAT has the space, and PoE is often used with racks of Pi boards which may be more likely to generate heat.
I see this as bad design. They knew the PoE headers would require the hat as well, so should have just routed the power leads over. Could have made a tiny hat that may not have interfered with other hats. I'd like to just see the HAT specs and parts so I can just incorporate them onto my own HAT,

Roy
HT spec is open, if you think there is a market for it, you can easily design your own better one and sell it yourself. Not sure schematics are yet available fo the PoE HAT, mechanicals are.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:39 pm

RoySalisbury wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:14 pm
While I love the fact that the wireless portion is now "certified" (or closer to what needs to be obtained), and the CPU boost is welcome, there are still two things that I find as a major drawback for this upgrade.

1. Still stuck at 1GB RAM. Could have at least went to 2. 4 would be even better.
2. The lack of header breakouts for the USB connection. The only way to add some support (RS232, 485, RFID, ect) is via USB adapters. However, I can build a HAT that has all the hardware, but I still need to run a cable from my HAT to the USB connector on the Pi. I'd like to see some pins to connect a USB enabled chip (FTDI for example).

Small steps forward are great, but don't forget about some of the easy stuff that can add great benefit.

Roy
1. Well known technical reasons for why limited to 1GB with this family of SoC's.
2. Board space is probably the main reason here.

As for 'easy' stuff. All the low hanging fruit has been picked. If there was something easy and of negligible cost, we would almost certainly have already done it.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:40 pm

midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:15 pm
why no USB3??? Lotsa fast devices would benefit
archive shows requests back to 2014, user satisfaction anywhere on the design list?
We sell about 5M devices a year. User satisfaction seems to be OK.

USB3 would require a new SoC. A new SoC would mean a massive redesign of the HW and years of SW effort.
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DougieLawson
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:46 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:39 pm

As for 'easy' stuff. All the low hanging fruit has been picked. If there was something easy and of negligible cost, we would almost certainly have already done it.
What you and Eben and all of your colleagues have done at 1/7th the price of a Sinclair ZX80 is remarkable. We should all be offering a round of applause to everyone at RPF and RP(Trading)Ltd. for a job well done.

I'm amazed at the haters and pink pony herders moaning on here that their next £35 computer doesn't have the right widgets included in the price.

I've had so much fun since getting my first RPi1B that I can't thank you all enough. I've even managed to sell some stuff for a Raspberry on a commercial basis.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:47 pm

(I can't believe so many people are complaining, that's just sad.)

To me, this 3B+ looks exactly as the doctor ordered: faster networking, reliable netboot (fingers crossed), no mechanical changes like the leds moving from one side to the other.
I am not super interested in PoE, but I am sure a lot of admins will want it.

This looks like an excellent upgrade. Thank you.
On to the next generation, with wifi netboot and cloud-boot/A-B updates ;)
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:53 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:21 pm
VeryNoob wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:18 pm
Does the new power management setup have the ability to turn off the pi? So if you Sudo shutdown it drops into super low power mode? And maybe short the reset header to turn it back on?
No. It works exactly like every other Raspberry.
According to this post https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... nt-1415054 and followup it should be possible tu turn pi off and on completely without removing power cable. Perhaps not via simple sudo shutdown right now but maybe that is just sw issue.

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:06 pm

What is the max screen resolution?
Assuming I get the latest HDMI cable?
Antikythera

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