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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:10 am
by pi-anazazi
I don't use wireless/BT. So basically faster Ethernet and faster CPU. Is it worth buying? Let's say for a RAID1 NAS? Will the faster ethernet increase the throughput by factor 3?

I typically max out the NAS with about 8.3 MB/s, so are 20 MB/s feasible with 3B+? :-)

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:30 am
by DougieLawson
Imperf3kt wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:05 am
I'm not whinging, I'm politely declining to buy the new model and asking if the upgrades include a dedicated Lan bandwidth or if its still shared with the USB.
Still a shared USB/Gig ethernet controller. Mine is the fastest thing on my network (it's the only thing doing 5.4GHz WiFi). It runs the AIY VoiceHAT ("OK, Google") stuff really well.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:31 am
by RaTTuS
Imperf3kt wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:05 am
I'm not whinging, I'm politely declining to buy the new model and asking if the upgrades include a dedicated Lan bandwidth or if its still shared with the USB.

Though I do admit I was moaning about my terrible ISP
as the blog says it is still on the end of the usb 2 bus so it is shared,
there is no change to the SOC , well apart from a package change the silicon is the same

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:47 am
by KevinSwansea
Could the 4 PoE pins be used as a method to connect a barrel-type connector to the Pi (still providing 5V @ 2.5A), rather than using the micro-USB, is there a fuse between the pins and the rest of the Pi hardware?

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:10 pm
by hippy
Looks like a good point upgrade. Well done everyone involved.

The blog says "Raspberry Pi 3B+ does consume substantially more power than its predecessor" but I couldn't find any details on how much, it's not in the FAQ -

https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#topPower

I note the PoE HAT doesn't appear to have stackable headers and, as I'd guess the fan is meant to sit over the SoC, this means using PoE excludes other HAT use. If it conforms to the HAT spec then that would in itself mean exactly that.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:16 pm
by tkaiser
pi-anazazi wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:10 am
Will the faster ethernet increase the throughput by factor 3?
Of course not since it's still 'shared bus' here. In theory we could get something around 19 MB/s when USB disks and Gigabit Ethernet is used at the same time. But there's a serious concern called 'USB bus contention' that was not an issue with the old LAN9514 (Fast Ethernet) but could now become a problem with Gigabit Ethernet.

The iperf numbers shown are irrelevant on a device where network and disks share the same USB bus. Is anyone here running latest Stretch on the new board able to provide real world NAS performance numbers? E.g. pushing a large file from a local Windows machine over to Samba hosted on the RPi 3+?

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:22 pm
by MattHawkinsUK
More stuff for the same money. What is there not to like?

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:23 pm
by bensimmo
Imperf3kt wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:05 am
I'm not whinging, I'm politely declining to buy the new model and asking if the upgrades include a dedicated Lan bandwidth or if its still shared with the USB.

Though I do admit I was moaning about my terrible ISP
The chip also provides the USB2 hub.

Have a read through the review here
http://raspi.tv/2018/new-raspberry-pi-m ... 2-11ac-poe
https://www.raspberrypi-spy.co.uk/2018/ ... -computer/
http://blog.pimoroni.com/introducing-th ... ry-pi-3-b/

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:24 pm
by karrika
I just ordered a new Pi 3B+. Looks great!

Does the Flirc case fit the new Pi 3B+ also?. Or is the Broadcom chip too tall to fit in an unmodified Flirc case? (Thinking about a better Kodi player. I bought a few extra Flirc cases with the Kodi print as they were sooo cute)

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:28 pm
by tkaiser
KevinSwansea wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:47 am
Could the 4 PoE pins be used as a method to connect a barrel-type connector to the Pi
Nope. On these pins the 'power' provided by an Ethernet cable is fed to the PoE HAT where some circuitry sits to negotiate a PoE supply with the switch (see starting from 'Stages of powering up a PoE link'). Then stable 5V are generated and most probably fed to pins 4/6 on the GPIO header.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:37 pm
by fanoush
The http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Pr ... 15/LAN9514 page says:
# Downstream Ethernet/USB Ports Ethenet x1, USB2.0 x6
Downstream USB Ports 6
but on the top it only says Ethernet Bridge with 4-port USB 2.0 Hub
So what are those 2 extra ports for? Could we possibly have two extra usb ports on some test points?

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:52 pm
by scruss
mikerr wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:12 am
Only other possibilities would be 2GB RAM and eMMC - but they would increase the price,
Don't think the current SoC can do beyond 1 GB — can it?

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:54 pm
by fredoll
That's great, Thanks to the team.
Do you think the Bluetooth chip will be able to handle HFP connections ? it looks like it is not possible on 3B.
Fred

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:54 pm
by Heater
tkaiser,
...an Ethernet cable is fed to the PoE HAT where some circuitry sits to negotiate a PoE supply with the switch...
Not around here. We just use a $1 PoE splitter/injector. Like so:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Over-Eth ... SwaA5Wi5nj
And shove power into it. Or 3$ PoE wall wart. Like so:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/48V-0-5A-PoE-I ... XQVT9StyQK

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:05 pm
by tung256
can this handle 4k mp4 files now?
i really need a seamless 4k player playing a 4k file in endless loop for a kiosk. thanks!

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:08 pm
by KevinSwansea
tkaiser wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:28 pm
KevinSwansea wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:47 am
Could the 4 PoE pins be used as a method to connect a barrel-type connector to the Pi
Nope. On these pins the 'power' provided by an Ethernet cable is fed to the PoE HAT where some circuitry sits to negotiate a PoE supply with the switch (see starting from 'Stages of powering up a PoE link'). Then stable 5V are generated and most probably fed to pins 4/6 on the GPIO header.
That's a shame, it would be good to be able to provide direct 5V power to the Pi without either using the micro-USB port or tying up GPIO pins (for example, some external motor controllers provide a stable 5V out for external hardware, or some people might prefer the ability to have a power connector external to the board, rather than plugging and unplugging cables directly on the board itself).

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:10 pm
by PiGraham
tung256 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:05 pm
can this handle 4k mp4 files now?
i really need a seamless 4k player playing a 4k file in endless loop for a kiosk. thanks!

Since it's the same SOC I would guess not.. I think it would have been mentioned if there was an upgrade to 4K and a more powerful GPU.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:11 pm
by tkaiser
Heater wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:54 pm
tkaiser,
...an Ethernet cable is fed to the PoE HAT where some circuitry sits to negotiate a PoE supply with the switch...
Not around here. We just use a $1 PoE splitter/injector ... And shove power into it. Or 3$ PoE wall wart
Welcome to Gigabit Ethernet then where passive PoE as you are used to doesn't work any more ;)

GbE uses all 4 cable pairs so 'shoving power into it' is not the greatest idea... already curious whether RPi's PoE HAT will be more expensive than the TL-POE10R we usually use with GbE and SBCs...

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:11 pm
by gregeric
fanoush wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:37 pm
The http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Pr ... 15/LAN9514 page says:
# Downstream Ethernet/USB Ports Ethenet x1, USB2.0 x6
Downstream USB Ports 6
but on the top it only says Ethernet Bridge with 4-port USB 2.0 Hub
So what are those 2 extra ports for? Could we possibly have two extra usb ports on some test points?
The 7515 is a BGA package, not so easily hackable by us cf the QFN of the old LAN9515. If they have not routed those extra four balls out, then no chance for the 5th & 6th USB.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:15 pm
by tkaiser
KevinSwansea wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:08 pm
it would be good to be able to provide direct 5V power to the Pi without either using the micro-USB port or tying up GPIO pins
Well, doing this works since the 1st Pi, we simply feed whole fleets of RPi with 5.2V generated by a buck converter from 24V (using passive PoE). But when inserting 5V through pins 4/6 you avoid some protection circuitry so only do this with a clean and regulated power source. I would believe with the PoE HAT additional protection circuitry will sit there.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm
by LeMoog
Hmm, tweaked 3B with PoE and new LAN chip, it is a shame that they didn't include an option for more RAM like the original Acorn B+.

Given that the Organisation's intended market (electronic project hobbyists and education) then less is OFC more but the question is, can education and electronic projects alone maintain the RPi, it certainly didn't for the beeb

Those that remember Acorn ( B+ and Master as a stop gap whilst they created the ARM for the Arch) will also remember what it cost Acorn. Even after the ARM came out and was the best micro computing CPU of the time, Acorn had already lost control of their market

My thinking is that it might be worth the Org finding out if the markets they are willing to support is sufficent to keep the organisation going when all the other customers move on to better things. The Pi still has the most optimised ARM linux and open hardware documentation but it is ultimately for tech that has moved on and I for one know what happens next if nothing changes.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:26 pm
by DougieLawson
LeMoog wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm
Hmm, tweaked 3B with PoE and new LAN chip, it is a shame that they didn't include an option for more RAM like the original Acorn B+.
What part of "You're limited to 1GB with the VC4 videocore (the SoC on ALL raspberries)" are you failing to grasp? More than a gig of RAM needs a new videocore and development of that won't be cheap or quick. The 3B+ is a point release of hardware changes that can be done by re-engineering the existing silicon rather than developing a completely new system-on-a-chip.

You're going to have to wait for "Raspberry Pi version next" when that happens.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:36 pm
by Raspberry Paul
Is the POE adapter actually available? I can't find it for sale anywhere and also can't find any pictures of it

Raspi.tv says "new header connector (labelled PoE) which attaches to another new official Raspberry Pi product – a power over ethernet board. This board will be available on launch day"

Interesting to note that some news outlets are saying the new board INCLUDES POE. All it has is a new set of headers - that can be used for POE.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:39 pm
by jamesh
runboy93 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:31 am
DougieLawson wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:00 am
The board layout is identical to the 3B apart from the four extra POE pins.
Ethernet moved, reason why fanless case from my signature isn't supported. Leaves empty spot.

For example, this is supported ofc, all is needed is right dimensions, nothing else:
http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl= ... A-RA03-A1B
Ethernet socket hasn't moved. Do you mean the chip? That's a new chip, so the chances of it moving are quite high....if you case replies on the particular position of chips on the board then you are out of luck. And there is NO WAY that we are going to design boards to continue to fit every case on the market. We'd never be able to add ANY new features.

Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:40 pm
by LeMoog
DougieLawson wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:26 pm
LeMoog wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm
Hmm, tweaked 3B with PoE and new LAN chip, it is a shame that they didn't include an option for more RAM like the original Acorn B+.
What part of "You're limited to 1GB with the VC4 videocore (the SoC on ALL raspberries)" are you failing to grasp? More than a gig of RAM needs a new videocore and development of that won't be cheap or quick. The 3B+ is a point release of hardware changes that can be done by re-engineering the existing silicon rather than developing a completely new system-on-a-chip.

You're going to have to wait for "Raspberry Pi version next" when that happens.
I am not having problems grasping anything, thank you