LeMoog
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:13 pm

solar3000 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:06 pm
What is the max screen resolution?
Assuming I get the latest HDMI cable?
1080p as SoC is functionally the same persumably

fred44nl
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:15 pm

how to upgrade from model 3B to model 3B+ ??
can I just move my micro-SD from the 3B to the 3B+ ??
headless RPi 3B running from usbhdd.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:26 pm

fred44nl wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:15 pm
how to upgrade from model 3B to model 3B+ ??
can I just move my micro-SD from the 3B to the 3B+ ??

You need to full update Raspbian Stretch to get the latest kernel / firmware before moving the SD Card:

Code: Select all

sudo apt update
sudo apt dist-upgrade

If you are running an alternative OS contact the Developers...
adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

jamesh
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:36 pm

midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:28 pm
scotty101 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:20 pm
midol wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:15 pm
why no USB3??? Lotsa fast devices would benefit
archive shows requests back to 2014, user satisfaction anywhere on the design list?
Some people are never happy. You can't have everything. This is an incremental update using the same SoC repackaged :evil:
yes the same people who were not happy in 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018, ignored and hand waving. the money the foundation is making will easily support a different chipset
You seem to MASSIVELY underestimate the time and money required to move to a different chipset, and provide the same features as we already do.

For example, can you name one, decently supported chip, that does everything that the current chip does, PLUS al the other features that everyone seems to want?

If you cannot, then one needs to be designed and made. That is a multi year, multi million pounds project for a company like Broadcom or similar.

Then add on the software that needs to be written for the chip. More years, more money.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:38 pm

LeMoog wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:13 pm
solar3000 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:06 pm
What is the max screen resolution?
Assuming I get the latest HDMI cable?
1080p as SoC is functionally the same persumably
Correct. Surprising the number of people who when told the SoC is functionally the same, seem to think that it isn't.
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Musketeer
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:43 pm

AD chip - Amlogic S912
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jamesh
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:51 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:43 pm
AD chip - Amlogic S912
CSI Camera interface? DSI LCD panel interface? HW composer? Not sure if there is a camera ISP

No USB3, no PCIe.

Not a bad chip, but I suspect support may be problematic, and cost probably as well. Interesting it uses BIG.little, an interesting architecture, but difficult to get right.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:54 pm

May I repeat myself pls - A/V out on my Rpi2 will be same like in b3+?

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=195178
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hippy
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:02 pm

LeMoog wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm
it is a shame that they didn't include an option for more RAM like the original Acorn B+.
There is an interesting response from Eben on the blog when asked about more memory; "RAM is going through one of its periodic price spikes. It wasn’t feasible to add more to the design while sticking to the $35 price point. Don’t worry though: we’re well aware of the appetite for more RAM, and will come back to this once prices moderate".

That's not the usual 'the SoC doesn't support it' response we normally see.

So, has part of the incremental improvements been that the SoC can now address more memory, the option has been added, and it is, as Eben appears to be suggesting, it still is only 1GB simply because memory is currently just too expensive ?

If that is so I think we can guess what's coming some time. Maybe next Pi day. Maybe sooner.

jamesh
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:04 pm

hippy wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:02 pm
LeMoog wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm
it is a shame that they didn't include an option for more RAM like the original Acorn B+.
There is an interesting response from Eben on the blog when asked about more memory; "RAM is going through one of its periodic price spikes. It wasn’t feasible to add more to the design while sticking to the $35 price point. Don’t worry though: we’re well aware of the appetite for more RAM, and will come back to this once prices moderate".

That's not the usual 'the SoC doesn't support it' response we normally see.

So, has part of the incremental improvements been that the SoC can now address more memory, the option has been added, and it is, as Eben appears to be suggesting, it's still 1GB simply because memory is currently just too expensive ?

If that is so I think we can guess what's coming some time. Maybe next Pi day. Maybe sooner.
No changes to the RAM limitation AFAIK. Will ask.

He's might be talking about Pi4. Which is still a long way away.

EDIT: A further quote from EU.

"There are limitations to the SoC architecture which cap us at 1GB. These are in theory fixable, but we’ve not prioritised that while RAM remains so expensive."

So would need a respin of the chip - V. expensive and time consuming.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:05 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:54 pm
May I repeat myself pls - A/V out on my Rpi2 will be same like in b3+?

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=195178
The SoC is the same, therefore the AV capabilities are the same.
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Imperf3kt
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:06 pm

supra wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:38 pm
I already orderd today. Can I ask you question, please. Can I used my 32gb microcard from my older rpi-3 to newest rpi-3B+?
Why would there be any reason you cannot? Its almost the same system.

All Pi models can interchange SD cards (provided the right adaptors are present if required.)
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

Musketeer
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:07 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:05 pm
Musketeer wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:54 pm
May I repeat myself pls - A/V out on my Rpi2 will be same like in b3+?

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=195178
The SoC is the same, therefore the AV capabilities are the same.
Thx! :idea:
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You want speed Java 9.8x? Throw it out of some Window(s)!
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Pi Enthusiast
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:21 pm

Good evening.
I'm stuck with a bit of a dilemma here regarding the new 3B+.
How would I go about upgrading a NOOBS image (With the latest stable versions of Raspbian Stretch and LibreELEC) to be compatible with the 3B+?
Just for clarifications sake, I have already apt-get upgraded my Raspbian image to the latest version.

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:23 pm

hippy wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:02 pm
LeMoog wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:19 pm
it is a shame that they didn't include an option for more RAM like the original Acorn B+.
There is an interesting response from Eben on the blog when asked about more memory; "RAM is going through one of its periodic price spikes. It wasn’t feasible to add more to the design while sticking to the $35 price point. Don’t worry though: we’re well aware of the appetite for more RAM, and will come back to this once prices moderate".

That's not the usual 'the SoC doesn't support it' response we normally see.

So, has part of the incremental improvements been that the SoC can now address more memory, the option has been added, and it is, as Eben appears to be suggesting, it still is only 1GB simply because memory is currently just too expensive ?

If that is so I think we can guess what's coming some time. Maybe next Pi day. Maybe sooner.
There are two orthogonal constraints - the memory controller on bcm2837xx and the price of SDRAM contracts you can negotiate with suppliers.

The memory controller is identical between Pi3B and Pi3B+, and the current implementation uses the maximum addressable RAM size of 1GB.

Because SDRAM today is overpriced compared to historical $/gbit levels, even if we had a Pi(n+1) design ready to go to production tomorrow we would face significant issues in shipping designs with more RAM attached. As the various bits of silicon we put on the board become consolidated and cost-optimised, the long pole turns out to be SDRAM simply because the area of SDRAM silicon dominates compared to SoC/PMIC/USB silicon.

tl;dr: even if we had a SoC with a memory controller capable of addressing 8GiB of LPDDR SDRAM, it wouldn't be cost-effective as RAM prices are at a high.
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:36 pm

hippy wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:10 pm
The blog says "Raspberry Pi 3B+ does consume substantially more power than its predecessor" but I couldn't find any details on how much...
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/raspb ... benchmarks

Idle -

Pi 3B 1.377W = 0.275A
Pi 3B+ 2.295W = 0.459A (+66%)

Load -

Pi 3B 3.672W = 0.734A
Pi 3B+ 5.661W = 1.132A (+54%)

No indication of consumption when under maximum stress, but from the FAQ, taking a guess at +50%

Pi 3B 6.7W = 1.34A
Pi 3B+ 10.05W = 2.01A (guessed)

If that is the case then it would seem the recommended PSU at 2.5A is going to be pushed beyond its limit under maximum stress if 1.2A is being drawn through USB or other circuitry.

zanaf175v
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:00 pm

Nice, can't wait to try it out.

Thanks to all you RPi developer / programmer... guys.

tkaiser
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:01 pm

hippy wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:36 pm
Idle -

Pi 3B 1.377W = 0.275A
Pi 3B+ 2.295W = 0.459A (+66%)

Load -

Pi 3B 3.672W = 0.734A
Pi 3B+ 5.661W = 1.132A (+54%)
It's still more or less the same SoC. The difference in idle consumption is most probably only related to the Wi-Fi chip and the Gigabit Ethernet PHY (on other ARM boards we usually see a consumption reduction of ~350 mW when switching from Gigabit to Fast Ethernet). But honestly: almost 1W more in idle looks wrong.

Load... when the SoC is now allowed to clock at up 1.4GHz a somewhat higher supply voltage is needed compared to 1.2GHz (a 200 MHz jump at the upper end of the DVFS scale requires an awful lot of more voltage/energy compared to a 200 MHz step at the lower end).

But both numbers look to high to me. Now that proper DVFS (dynamic voltage frequency scaling) with an I2C accessible PMIC is possible I would assume that further 'firmware' upgrades might result in lower consumption numbers.

Maybe RPi folks simply chose DVFS OPP too high this time to prevent what happened at RPi 3 launch two years ago (supply voltage too low at the 1.2 GHz DVFS OPP resulting in data corruption): viewtopic.php?f=63&t=139712

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:03 pm

What I am interested to know its why the PoE part is a populated header and not left for buyer of the PoE.
Given it must cost a tiny fraction more, it interferes with case design and I think some HATs and generally nobody will use them. Industry I assume, but then they can buy via different channels and have them populated so to keep warranty issues at bay ?
Just interest in thinkings.

Oh and yes I have one coming here tomorrow and think it's a good incremental upgrade especially at the same price. (and the WiFi).
I still pay £32 and well get something better :-)


Idle power seems high though, from the MagPi benchmark. Why is the improved power management not keeping it the same or lower than the Pi3.
I commented to the MagPi post a while back, but noone seems to post on there.

PiGraham
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:19 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:03 pm

Idle power seems high though, from the MagPi benchmark. Why is the improved power management not keeping it the same or lower than the Pi3.
I commented to the MagPi post a while back, but noone seems to post on there.
Where is the MagPi benchmark?

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PeterO
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:27 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:03 pm
Idle power seems high though, from the MagPi benchmark. Why is the improved power management not keeping it the same or lower than the Pi3.
I commented to the MagPi post a while back, but noone seems to post on there.
Somewhere it says that the extra current is going into the new USB/LAN chip.
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dom
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:34 pm

PeterO wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:27 pm
Somewhere it says that the extra current is going into the new USB/LAN chip.
Certainly some of it. EEE is supported.
If the switch you connect to supports it you save about 0.5W.

gtechn
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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:50 pm

Congrats on the release, just ordered!

An odd request, but I haven't seen any images of the backside of the Raspberry Pi 3 B+... Probably not notable because it doesn't have the (previously shiniest part of the Pi) wireless chip there anymore.

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Re: New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet, 802.11ac, PoE

Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:03 pm

Pi Enthusiast wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:21 pm
Good evening.
I'm stuck with a bit of a dilemma here regarding the new 3B+.
How would I go about upgrading a NOOBS image (With the latest stable versions of Raspbian Stretch and LibreELEC) to be compatible with the 3B+?
Just for clarifications sake, I have already apt-get upgraded my Raspbian image to the latest version.
Make sure you take a backup of the card before attempting this.

Copy new NOOBS files (v2.7) over the old ones. Open up recovery.cmdline and remove 'runinstaller '.

MadnessandPi
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New Raspberry Pi model 3B+ 1.4 GHz, 330Mbit Ethernet 802.11ac, PoE - I2C Clock Stretching

Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:20 pm

DId the new 3B+ hardware fix the issue with I2C clock stretching?

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