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pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:03 pm
by ulink
After 10 months since release, the pi zero w is still availabe only in quantities of 1 which is quite annoying.
Is there any estimation when it will be available in "bulk" quantities of 10..50 pieces for ~$10 ?

And what about the pi zero? Will it EVER be available in quantities of 10...50 for ~$5 ?

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:05 pm
by RaTTuS
yes , no , viewtopic.php?t=198705
if you want to build things then a CM is the way to go as it will not change it's format

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:48 pm
by hippy
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:03 pm
Is there any estimation when it will be available in "bulk" quantities of 10..50 pieces for ~$10 ?

And what about the pi zero? Will it EVER be available in quantities of 10...50 for ~$5 ?
It is unlikely you will be able to bulk purchase either Zero W's at $10 or Zero's at $5 any time soon ...

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=199652

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:20 pm
by ulink
RaTTuS wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:05 pm
if you want to build things then a CM is the way to go as it will not change it's format
Nope. CM3 is overkill for my project and too expensive. CM1 also is too expensive, no one will buy it any more.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:58 pm
by stewart_elmwood
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:03 pm
Is there any estimation when it will be available in "bulk" quantities of 10..50 pieces for ~$10 ?
Bulk quantities we can already do: https://elmwoodelectronics.ca/products/ ... -pi-zero-w
For ~$10 though? I can't say.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:05 pm
by mattmiller
How come your allowed to sell them in bulk but no-one else is?

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:12 pm
by W. H. Heydt
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:03 pm
After 10 months since release, the pi zero w is still availabe only in quantities of 1 which is quite annoying.
Is there any estimation when it will be available in "bulk" quantities of 10..50 pieces for ~$10 ?

And what about the pi zero? Will it EVER be available in quantities of 10...50 for ~$5 ?
You can buy as many as you want, but not for $5 (Pi0) or $10 (Pi0W). And the minimum order appears to be about 500.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:14 pm
by W. H. Heydt
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:20 pm
RaTTuS wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:05 pm
if you want to build things then a CM is the way to go as it will not change it's format
Nope. CM3 is overkill for my project and too expensive. CM1 also is too expensive, no one will buy it any more.
Per RPF/RPT, the CM1 will be available until at least 2023. There is no guarantee that the Pi0/Pi0W will remain available. Plus, if there are any changes to the Pi0/Pi0W, the form factor may change, unlike the CM series.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:48 pm
by bitbank
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:03 pm
After 10 months since release, the pi zero w is still availabe only in quantities of 1 which is quite annoying.
Is there any estimation when it will be available in "bulk" quantities of 10..50 pieces for ~$10 ?

And what about the pi zero? Will it EVER be available in quantities of 10...50 for ~$5 ?
The pricing of the RPi0 + RPi0W were obviously meant as a kind of "macho challenge" to other ARM SBC vendors. The only way to be able to sell them in quantity is to raise the price. The next part of the logical argument is "why not raise the price?". Apparently the emotional outrage from such a move is not worth it to the RPF, so we will forever be in a state of limbo where demand far outstrips supply.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:15 pm
by jamesh
If you wish to bulk buy the Zero, please PM me and I will pass on the details of the people you need to talk to.

By bulk, at least a couple of hundred I think and the price will not be $5 and $10 respectively, but higher.

They will never* be available in bulk amounts at the $5 and $10 price points, it's not cost effective to sell at that price. But they ARE available for bulk buys - i.e. demand no longer outstrips supply.

But we can sell individual items at that prices, for educational needs - i.e. those who cannot afford the higher price of the Pi3. Call it an educational discount.


(* Never is a long time, but I don't see if happening)

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:47 pm
by W. H. Heydt
stewart_elmwood wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:58 pm
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:03 pm
Is there any estimation when it will be available in "bulk" quantities of 10..50 pieces for ~$10 ?
Bulk quantities we can already do: https://elmwoodelectronics.ca/products/ ... -pi-zero-w
For ~$10 though? I can't say.
Interesting that they are selling the Pi0W for essentially the same price as the A+.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:54 pm
by ulink
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:15 pm
If you wish to bulk buy the Zero, please PM me and I will pass on the details of the people you need to talk to.
By bulk, at least a couple of hundred I think and the price will not be $5 and $10 respectively, but higher.
500 or something is too much for me. Is it possible to buy, say, 50 or 100 "zero" or "zero w" bulk and if so, what about the price?
They will never* be available in bulk amounts at the $5 and $10 price points, it's not cost effective to sell at that price. But they ARE available for bulk buys - i.e. demand no longer outstrips supply.
Zero (not W) is bulk-available now too?
But we can sell individual items at that prices, for educational needs - i.e. those who cannot afford the higher price of the Pi3. Call it an educational discount.
Understood. It's of course your decision, but it's a bummer because this way imho you indirectly promote many of the pesky "china allwinner rpi clones".

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:52 pm
by HawaiianPi
The official policy on the $5 Pi Zero and $10 Zero W is one per customer. Not one per order, one per customer. Meaning, you are only ever supposed to be able to get one at that price. Of course that is impossible to enforce across multiple vendors in multiple countries, so most dealers have restricted it to one per order.

If you want to buy larger quantities, but less than "bulk" quantities, there are some vendors who will sell you more than one, but you typically have to buy a kit with extra stuff, or pre-installed headers, so again the price per unit is higher.

If you happen to live near a Micro Center store, they will sell you a bunch at the following pricing.

Pi Zero W
1 at $5.00 each (yes, that's for the "W" model)
2-5 at $14.99 each
6+ at $19.99 each

Pi Zero v1.3
1 at $5.00 each
2-5 at $9.99 each
6+ at $14.99 each

But you have to buy in-store. They do not mail order those.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:55 pm
by W. H. Heydt
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:54 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:15 pm
If you wish to bulk buy the Zero, please PM me and I will pass on the details of the people you need to talk to.
By bulk, at least a couple of hundred I think and the price will not be $5 and $10 respectively, but higher.
500 or something is too much for me. Is it possible to buy, say, 50 or 100 "zero" or "zero w" bulk and if so, what about the price?
The link that was posted answers that question...$20 each for Pi0W.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:19 pm
by jamesh
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:54 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:15 pm
If you wish to bulk buy the Zero, please PM me and I will pass on the details of the people you need to talk to.
By bulk, at least a couple of hundred I think and the price will not be $5 and $10 respectively, but higher.
500 or something is too much for me. Is it possible to buy, say, 50 or 100 "zero" or "zero w" bulk and if so, what about the price?
As above, PM me and I can put you in contact with someone who can answer that.
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:54 pm
They will never* be available in bulk amounts at the $5 and $10 price points, it's not cost effective to sell at that price. But they ARE available for bulk buys - i.e. demand no longer outstrips supply.
Zero (not W) is bulk-available now too?
I believe so.
ulink wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:54 pm
But we can sell individual items at that prices, for educational needs - i.e. those who cannot afford the higher price of the Pi3. Call it an educational discount.
Understood. It's of course your decision, but it's a bummer because this way imho you indirectly promote many of the pesky "china allwinner rpi clones".
Not really, very few competitors benefit from this, if any. There's no money in it for them at this level of pricing.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:44 am
by ulink
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:19 pm
Not really, very few competitors benefit from this, if any. There's no money in it for them at this level of pricing.
That's right at the $5 level (at which I can't buy more than one piece...).
But there ARE (more than one...) rpi zero like parts using quad core cpu's at the $7...$8 level. I think only a few advantages are left against the allwinner crap these days: Raspbian (mainline kernel) and the big community.

Unfortunately, things are changing quickly.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:26 am
by jamesh
ulink wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:44 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:19 pm
Not really, very few competitors benefit from this, if any. There's no money in it for them at this level of pricing.
That's right at the $5 level (at which I can't buy more than one piece...).
But there ARE (more than one...) rpi zero like parts using quad core cpu's at the $7...$8 level. I think only a few advantages are left against the allwinner crap these days: Raspbian (mainline kernel) and the big community.

Unfortunately, things are changing quickly.
Not for us, we are still selling 10-100 times more than any competitors. Never underestimate the benefit a good support network, and well designed HW. Links to those $8 parts would be interesting. And of course, if you want to buy loads of Zero's you can.

Of course, no-one stands still. It's not like we are sitting, Smaug like, on our cash hoard, and not doing any R&D.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:22 am
by hippy
HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:52 pm
If you happen to live near a Micro Center store, they will sell you a bunch at the following pricing.

Pi Zero W
1 at $5.00 each (yes, that's for the "W" model)
2-5 at $14.99 each
6+ at $19.99 each

Pi Zero v1.3
1 at $5.00 each
2-5 at $9.99 each
6+ at $14.99 each

But you have to buy in-store. They do not mail order those.
Can anyone name any other product where there's such an 'insane pricing scheme', where purchase cost increases the more one buys ?

I do understand that the Foundation can only afford to make Zeroes in limited quantity at the $5 and $10 price points, to provide greater quantity, and to not cut into the revenue stream excessively, the price has to be higher. That's completely sound.

It is when it comes to Micro Center's pricing and the fact that one can buy at the $5 and $10 prices multiple times, one per order, that it all stops making sense.

I would love to know how much Micro Center and other retailers are paying the Foundation for their zeroes which they sell above the $5 and $10 price points, who the money paid is going to, but I doubt there's ever going to be the kind of transparency which allows anyone independent to properly assess or judge the situation which exists.

If retailers selling at higher than $5 and $10 are buying from the Foundation at $5 and $10 it can be argued that the notional one per person rule is less about limited capacity to produce at $5 and $10 than it is about facilitating retailer mark-up and profit, preventing independent purchasers from competing on a level field with official retailers.

But, as I said; I doubt we'll ever know.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:48 am
by jamesh
hippy wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:22 am
HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:52 pm
If you happen to live near a Micro Center store, they will sell you a bunch at the following pricing.

Pi Zero W
1 at $5.00 each (yes, that's for the "W" model)
2-5 at $14.99 each
6+ at $19.99 each

Pi Zero v1.3
1 at $5.00 each
2-5 at $9.99 each
6+ at $14.99 each

But you have to buy in-store. They do not mail order those.
Can anyone name any other product where there's such an 'insane pricing scheme', where purchase cost increases the more one buys ?

I do understand that the Foundation can only afford to make Zeroes in limited quantity at the $5 and $10 price points, to provide greater quantity, and to not cut into the revenue stream excessively, the price has to be higher. That's completely sound.

It is when it comes to Micro Center's pricing and the fact that one can buy at the $5 and $10 prices multiple times, one per order, that it all stops making sense.

I would love to know how much Micro Center and other retailers are paying the Foundation for their zeroes which they sell above the $5 and $10 price points, who the money paid is going to, but I doubt there's ever going to be the kind of transparency which allows anyone independent to properly assess or judge the situation which exists.

If retailers selling at higher than $5 and $10 are buying from the Foundation at $5 and $10 it can be argued that the notional one per person rule is less about limited capacity to produce at $5 and $10 than it is about facilitating retailer mark-up and profit, preventing independent purchasers from competing on a level field with official retailers.

But, as I said; I doubt we'll ever know.
I doubt you will ever know as well.The prices people buy from the Foundation is very much secret squirrel.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:43 pm
by hippy
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:48 am
I doubt you will ever know as well.The prices people buy from the Foundation is very much secret squirrel.
I do understand that.

One thing which would be nice to know is if the Foundation has any intention of forcing the 'one per customer' rule on retailers, ending the $5 and $10 zero ' one per order' regime some appear to be running.

Last year I indicated myself and some colleagues were thinking of buying direct at the above $5 and $10 prices, re-selling to others in bulk. That was a serious notion but, if retailers are allowing multiple $5 and $10 zero purchases, one per order, that's an obstacle to undertaking such a venture.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:26 pm
by jamesh
hippy wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:43 pm
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:48 am
I doubt you will ever know as well.The prices people buy from the Foundation is very much secret squirrel.
I do understand that.

One thing which would be nice to know is if the Foundation has any intention of forcing the 'one per customer' rule on retailers, ending the $5 and $10 zero ' one per order' regime some appear to be running.

Last year I indicated myself and some colleagues were thinking of buying direct at the above $5 and $10 prices, re-selling to others in bulk. That was a serious notion but, if retailers are allowing multiple $5 and $10 zero purchases, one per order, that's an obstacle to undertaking such a venture.
Retailers would be foolish in the extreme to sell bulk at $5 and $10. I would be very surprised if any did it for any length of time. Our official line is one PER CUSTOMER, but we simply don't have the manpower to police it, so the enforcement is indirect - anyone selling bulk at $5/10 won't be making any money, so its a pointless exercise unless they have plenty of capital to waste.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:37 pm
by mikerr
hippy wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:22 am
Can anyone name any other product where there's such an 'insane pricing scheme', where purchase cost increases the more one buys ?
It's quite common with "loss leaders" or "special offers" to be limited to just one per customer at the stated price,
similarly you can then also buy multiples at the "regular" higher price.

The difference with the Zero is that the $5 price has always been advertised as the normal price,
with the higher price for quantity only just being introduced.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:50 pm
by hippy
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:26 pm
Retailers would be foolish in the extreme to sell bulk at $5 and $10. I would be very surprised if any did it for any length of time. Our official line is one PER CUSTOMER, but we simply don't have the manpower to police it, so the enforcement is indirect - anyone selling bulk at $5/10 won't be making any money, so its a pointless exercise unless they have plenty of capital to waste.
Retailers may not be selling in bulk per se at $5 and $10 prices, but they are allowing multiple $5 and $10 sales to the same customer, one per order. Unless retailers are making their money by inflating postage costs they would make the same profit from selling 50 bulk or 50 over the year, one order per week.

They might not make any greater profit from selling in bulk, but they won't make any less. In fact they probably would save on processing orders; one bulk purchase of 50 would be cheaper to fulfil than 50 individual orders.

I am not sure where the foolishness comes in. There's a small profit per zero and the more retailers sell the more profit they make. Selling in bulk maximises their profit where customers are only prepared to pay $5 or $10 prices, plus postage.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:51 pm
by bitbank
ulink wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:44 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:19 pm
Not really, very few competitors benefit from this, if any. There's no money in it for them at this level of pricing.
That's right at the $5 level (at which I can't buy more than one piece...).
But there ARE (more than one...) rpi zero like parts using quad core cpu's at the $7...$8 level. I think only a few advantages are left against the allwinner crap these days: Raspbian (mainline kernel) and the big community.

Unfortunately, things are changing quickly.
Actually, that advantage is now gone too. Armbian (a community supported Debian Linux project) is shipping a newer Linux kernel than RPI uses (4.14) for a large collection of non-RPI ARM SBCs. 4.14 includes support for ARM SoCs (including Allwinner chips). The $8 boards run quite well. There are many factors to consider when choosing your hardware. For non-educational purposes, the ARM SBC marketplace is full of good options besides the RPF. I'm not saying that the Chinese vendors don't use unfair practices, but the quality and support are less of an issue with many.

Re: pi zero w in quantities of 10...50

Posted: Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:27 pm
by hippy
jamesh wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:26 pm
Our official line is one PER CUSTOMER, but we simply don't have the manpower to police it
I find that hard to believe or that one would have to police it. There are just a handful of official retailers and presumably they are all trustworthy and would generally do what the Foundation asked of them. If it were a condition of a partnership agreement then they could generally be trusted to abide by it.

I am not expecting it to absolutely be that one customer only ever gets one zero; there are always going to be some who find ways round the means intended to prevent that. But to generally impose the rule, have retailers do what they reasonably can to prevent multiple sales to the same customer. That's a long way from how it is now for some retailers where the 'one per customer' rule simply isn't being applied, with seemingly no effort made to make it apply.