mental2k
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:53 am

I'm almost 100% sure there is an HTML5 version of the iPlayer (pretty sure the PS3 version is).  Chrome supports HTML5 (not entirely sure if ARMv6 version does).  Now if my understanding is correct, browsers can pass HTML5 video decoding directly to hardware, if the iPlayer video codec can be decoded efficiently by the GPU then I can't see a reason it wouldn't work.

andy001
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:35 pm

I see lots of comments on what could work as a web browser and what will not currently work. Some people say it has been tested with a web browser and works well.

My question is what web browsers have been made to work so far and will one be preloaded on the first SD cards?  I would like to try to automate some simple web updates, currently I use PC, Firefox and imacro. Could the R-Pi do this and how?

MarshallBanana
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:46 am

*derpderp*

- create arm6 version of this: http://distro.ibiblio.org/tiny.....lcome.html

- get http://links.twibright.com/ and prerequisites and compile for arm6

- put all on raspi-sd-card

---> webbrowser on raspi

*run-and-hide*

obarthelemy
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:03 am

More seriously, there will of course be web browsers for the Pi. Midori (a Firefox variant) has been tested on a beta board. I think Firefox has been tested too.

You can find in my sig the list of software available for debian. I had links for fedora and arch but lost them in the forum software switch.

Corez
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:10 am

Cyclops91 said:


My first thought was to use an R-pi as a web browser for the kitchen TV - handy for recipes etc - no doubt this will work, but then I thought what about using it for iplayer instead of having to plug in a laptop if we want to watch something we have missed on TV?  However doesn't BBC iplayer use Flash? - and therefore won't work with Debian....  Am I right in thinking this - has anyone got any thoughts?


BBC iPlayer Desktop runs using Adobe AIR which does make use of Flash runtime but I am not entirely sure how. There is a mobile version of AIR for iPhone, Android and BlackBerry and I know there is a version of iPlayer on the Android Market but it is not as feature rich as the full desktop version.

dgatwood
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:24 am

Firefox did not drop ARMv6 support.  They temporarily stopped shipping the ARMv6 experimental browser because it was massively broken in its current state.  There are folks trying to get it working again.

steev
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:25 am

cnxsoft said:


I confirm I cannot install Firefox with apt-get in the emulator.


What about Iceweasel? That's Debian's version of Firefox which is basically the same thing just with different branding.

They appear to have packages for armel.

dom
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:22 am

You can install Iceweasel from Debian. It"s a bit of a resource hog and is slower then Midori, but it works.

Rubus
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:52 pm

obarthelemy said:


Midori (a Firefox variant) has been tested on a beta board.



The rendering engine in Midori was switched from Gecko (Firefox) to Webkit (Chrome/Safari) a few years ago.

JoeDaStudd
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:38 pm

Personally I wouldn't recommend using the R-Pi as a web browsing device for the average user.

The average user expects to be able to pickup and play 99% of content on the web. With the restrictions of the R-Pi's hardware and the lack of general ARM support its not going to be pickup and play thing.

Maybe in the future when there is a 512mb model (trust me the average user expects to be able to have 4+ tabs with atleast 2 with active content, ie flash or java) and a dedicated distro setup for web browsing (with all the plugins, add-ons and run times pre-installed). Until then they are better off getting a cheap desktop.

For a someone who likes to tinker or isn't interested in flash or similar technologies the R-Pi should be fine, unfortunately in this day and age there aren't too many of us who are.

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zag
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:30 pm

There was also a youtube video posted by one of the ebay beta board buyers.

Internet browsing looked very slow.
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abishur
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:48 pm

huh, looks like we got a necromancer in our midst

The comment that the r-pi will not be able to "pick up and play" web content is, I fear, completely unfounded.  Now it is true that the r-pi will not be able to use the over-bloated monstrosity that firefox or IE or even Opera have become (he said while posting from firefox), but that doesn't mean it can't acceptably run other flavors of more lightweight web browsers.  Additionally it will be able to run flash.  What it won't be able to do is use the GPU hardware acceleration to run flash, (adobe charges a ridiculous amount in licensing).  It will still do software acceleration.  That does mean that you won't be able to have four tabs up at once each one consisting mainly of flash content, but you wouldn't have that up anyway as you can't watch/play four things at once.

All that said, flash is also (thank goodness) going the way of the dodo.  HTML5 is the next media content standard and the r-pi will run that swimmingly well from what has been discussed.
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kme
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:18 pm

Abishur said:

Additionally it will be able to run flash.  What it won't be able to do is use the GPU hardware acceleration to run flash, (adobe charges a ridiculous amount in licensing).  It will still do software acceleration.  
Yaeh, that's going to be fun. Current OS state:

Debian: no support for ARMv6. R-Pi will have to run v5 without hardware floating point support. That will be fun for media content...

Arch: same.

Fedora: Who knows? This unofficial official R-Pi OS which should have been ready at least six weeks ago (when the hardware originally was expected), has mysteriously disappeared from the surface of the earth. Has anybody heard a word about it? Then I've missed it.

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abishur
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:48 pm

lol, yeah good thing the main media content site (youtube) does HTML5 in addition to flash... I wonder if there's a setting I can do in my web browser to force youtube to use HTML5.
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drgeoff
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:54 pm

kme said:


Abishur said:


Additionally it will be able to run flash.  What it won't be able to do is use the GPU hardware acceleration to run flash, (adobe charges a ridiculous amount in licensing).  It will still do software acceleration.


Yaeh, that's going to be fun. Current OS state:

Debian: no support for ARMv6. R-Pi will have to run v5 without hardware floating point support. That will be fun for media content...

Arch: same.

Fedora: Who knows? This unofficial official R-Pi OS which should have been ready at least six weeks ago (when the hardware originally was expected), has mysteriously disappeared from the surface of the earth. Has anybody heard a word about it? Then I've missed it.


If you want the speed, range, carrying capacity, comfort etc of a car, you don't buy a bicycle.  Each has its merits.  Ditto a PC and the RP.

hippy
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:54 pm

Abishur said:

Additionally it will be able to run flash.
That seems contradictory to what the foundation has been saying up tol a few days ago, for example in the Codecs posting - "Will be possible to have Flash on browsers?", "No. Lots of discussion about this in the forums – pile in!"

kme
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:59 pm

hippy said:


Abishur said:


Additionally it will be able to run flash.


That seems contradictory to what the foundation has been saying up tol a few days ago, for example in the Codecs posting – "Will be possible to have Flash on browsers?", "No. Lots of discussion about this in the forums – pile in!"


http://www.androidcampus.in/20.....r-for.html

But it will never survive in a ypical R-Pi setup with a bulk browser and just 256 MB RAM.

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abishur
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:00 pm

hippy said:


Abishur said:


Additionally it will be able to run flash.


That seems contradictory to what the foundation has been saying up tol a few days ago, for example in the Codecs posting - "Will be possible to have Flash on browsers?", "No. Lots of discussion about this in the forums – pile in!"



Not at all, in listing what codecs they had activated on the r-pi they had not activated the Flash one (because of how insanely adobe prices its content), meaning it will not have hardware acceleration but there is no reason why it would not be able to do software acceleration (though as KME pointed out when it comes to heavy media content it will be pretty bad).  And I'll admit that maybe I'm underestimating how bloated flash has become.  Outside of youtube I really haven't used any flash content since my high school flash game days... which might have been longer ago then I'd care to mention
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abishur
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:02 pm

kme said:


hippy said:


Abishur said:


Additionally it will be able to run flash.


That seems contradictory to what the foundation has been saying up tol a few days ago, for example in the Codecs posting – "Will be possible to have Flash on browsers?", "No. Lots of discussion about this in the forums – pile in!"


http://www.androidcampus.in/20.....r-for.html

But it will never survive in a ypical R-Pi setup with a bulk browser and just 256 MB RAM.



That I fully agree with!  Of course, I don't think the r-pi in general would work with a bulk browser (my ultra powerful laptop struggles from time to time with my bulk browser)
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liz
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:16 pm

kme said:


Fedora: Who knows? This unofficial official R-Pi OS which should have been ready at least six weeks ago (when the hardware originally was expected), has mysteriously disappeared from the surface of the earth. Has anybody heard a word about it? Then I've missed it.


Yes, but there are various bits of paper we need to sign first before making a big splash. I think Eben and Chris are talking early next week. Don't worry that just because you're not hearing updates on something it's not happening; Fedora have been working on it steadily since that video you're talking about, and it's pretty awesome.
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mole125
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:28 pm

Abishur said:


Outside of youtube I really haven't used any flash content since my high school flash game days...


Which is why it is so important for the RPi to support flash if it is going to be used in schools - most games/teaching aids produced for teachers* available on the web are in flash - though most of them don't use any video and are purely interactive animations so software only would be fine. Not so sure how well some of the facebook games would run but that may just mean the kids get on with something more productive

* At least all the ones my wife uses targeted for primary school.

JoeDaStudd
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:35 pm

Abishur said:

The comment that the r-pi will not be able to "pick up and play" web content is, I fear, completely unfounded.
I said it wouldn't be pick up and play for the average user.

This means poorly made facebook games, streaming music and streaming hd videos from various sources. If it fails to do any of them (or a combination of) smoothly, they will kick, scream and call the device rubbish.

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abishur
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:47 pm

mole125 said:


Abishur said:


Outside of youtube I really haven't used any flash content since my high school flash game days...


Which is why it is so important for the RPi to support flash if it is going to be used in schools - most games/teaching aids produced for teachers* available on the web are in flash - though most of them don't use any video and are purely interactive animations so software only would be fine. Not so sure how well some of the facebook games would run but that may just mean the kids get on with something more productive

* At least all the ones my wife uses targeted for primary school.



I don't see what that sort of flash content shouldn't be able to be software accelerated with little issue.

JoeDaStudd said:


Abishur said:


The comment that the r-pi will not be able to "pick up and play" web content is, I fear, completely unfounded.


I said it wouldn't be pick up and play for the average user.

This means poorly made facebook games, streaming music and streaming hd videos from various sources. If it fails to do any of them (or a combination of) smoothly, they will kick, scream and call the device rubbish.



Facebook games and streaming music should work just fine with software acceleration.  Now streaming HD videos... well only 1 out of 3 of my computers I regularly use can stream *HD* videos.  Even netflix's "HD" video isn't true HD.  It's got the resolution, but not the bitrate.  Of course, netflix in general won't work on linux I'm told, so it's a moot point, which brings us back to youtube which will do HTML5 which you will be able to stream.

Now that said, I do agree that people will kick and scream and call the device rubbish when they do find that one site that is stubbornly holding onto flash and it's too media heavy to be software accelerated even on a light browser on the r-pi (I'm looking at you Hulu!), but that hardly makes it non pick up and play for the average user (or at least not any less pick up and play than linux is on the whole for the average user )
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lb
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:47 pm

A serious problem is the lack of an X.org DDX driver for the Pi. Without any 2D acceleration, browsing the web is bound to be sluggish, especially scrolling and animations will be slow. That said even with all graphics acceleration bits in place and working fast, you won't see desktop-like or even netbook-like performance - it is going to be quite a bit slower.

WereCatf
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Re: Can i use raspberry pi mainly for web browsing?

Fri Feb 03, 2012 6:09 pm

lb said:


A serious problem is the lack of an X.org DDX driver for the Pi.


Is it really true that there is no XRender et. al. acceleration available?

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