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The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:58 am
by linam
hi,

is There any Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit? I would be grateful if you could send its download link.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:00 am
by feelslikeautumn
You can get a 64 bit os in nearly every distro (except raspian) I think. What is your normal linux distro of choice?

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:19 am
by fruitoftheloom
linam wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:58 am
hi,

is There any Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit? I would be grateful if you could send its download link.
viewtopic.php?f=51&t=151274

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:29 am
by linam
feelslikeautumn wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:00 am
You can get a 64 bit os in nearly every distro (except raspian) I think. What is your normal linux distro of choice?
thanks for replying, my choice was raspbian Jessie and wheezy before, now I should chang it. do you know which 64bit distro is better?

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:26 am
by B.Goode
linam wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:29 am
feelslikeautumn wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:00 am
You can get a 64 bit os in nearly every distro (except raspian) I think. What is your normal linux distro of choice?
thanks for replying, my choice was raspbian Jessie and wheezy before, now I should chang it. do you know which 64bit distro is better?
By what criteria do you measure "better"?

Or to put it another way, what is wrong with Raspbian?

There is a related current discussion taking place here: viewtopic.php?f=91&t=192321

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:51 am
by feelslikeautumn
Opensuse was I think the first and possibly the best. I have a Ubuntu bias and created a lubuntu ISO for the pi 3 (viewtopic.php?t=190511 ) so you can use that if you just want to try arm64. The boot is really slow compared to raspbian, but that is mainly due to the 'live' nature of the iso, and an actual install is faster to boot.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:10 am
by linam
B.Goode wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:26 am
linam wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:29 am
feelslikeautumn wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:00 am
You can get a 64 bit os in nearly every distro (except raspian) I think. What is your normal linux distro of choice?
thanks for replying, my choice was raspbian Jessie and wheezy before, now I should chang it. do you know which 64bit distro is better?
By what criteria do you measure "better"?

Or to put it another way, what is wrong with Raspbian?

There is a related current discussion taking place here: viewtopic.php?f=91&t=192321
I don't have any problem with raspbian but I want a 64 bit os and I couldn't find rsbian 64. thus I want to switch another distro. the most important metric to me it's the act of the os on the installation and execution software program.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:16 am
by linam
feelslikeautumn wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:51 am
Opensuse was I think the first and possibly the best. I have a Ubuntu bias and created a lubuntu ISO for the pi 3 (viewtopic.php?t=190511 ) so you can use that if you just want to try arm64. The boot is really slow compared to raspbian, but that is mainly due to the 'live' nature of the iso, and an actual install is faster to boot.
thanks for reply, I test one distro based on Debian and it was really slow special in booting.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:04 am
by B.Goode
I don't have any problem with raspbian but I want a 64 bit os
Still puzzled. If there is nothing wrong with the Raspbian OS you are using why do you need to change it?

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:09 am
by itimpi
Normally the only reason for going to a 64-bit version of an OS is so that you can use more RAM. That is not a consideration with the Pi since the hardware is limited to 1GB RAM this is not a reason for going to a 64-bit OS.

There is normally no performance benefit for going to 64-bit, and 64-bit programs are typically larger than the 32-bit equivalent which is not a good thing on the Pi with limited RAM.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:31 am
by jamesh
linam wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:10 am
B.Goode wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:26 am
linam wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:29 am


thanks for replying, my choice was raspbian Jessie and wheezy before, now I should chang it. do you know which 64bit distro is better?
By what criteria do you measure "better"?

Or to put it another way, what is wrong with Raspbian?

There is a related current discussion taking place here: viewtopic.php?f=91&t=192321
I don't have any problem with raspbian but I want a 64 bit os and I couldn't find rsbian 64. thus I want to switch another distro. the most important metric to me it's the act of the os on the installation and execution software program.
You are unlikely to see any improvement in performance on the Pi when going to a 64bit OS, unless the app is 'tuned' to 64bits. There are some areas where 64bits does give slightly better performance, but not many.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:52 pm
by jahboater
itimpi wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:09 am
and 64-bit programs are typically larger than the 32-bit equivalent which is not a good thing on the Pi with limited RAM.
Sometimes. I have a program which is 79k in 32-bit mode and 72k in 64-bit mode.

There are twice the number of registers (31 general purpose registers and a very handy zero register), so for example, there is often less need to adjust the stack frame in each function.

Its true that 32-bit Raspbian is perfectly adequate for 99.999% of users.
I fiddle with a little assembler now and then and I much prefer the modern A64 instruction set and the new NEON. Not typical though!

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:48 pm
by feelslikeautumn
I think a lot of these discussions miss a crucial point: that is the application support. ARM is not a priority for many application developers, but if they are going to have some sort of arm machine then it will probably be arm64. So I think you are more likely to have Firefox jit working in arm64 than armhf etc. Examples of this can already be seen on the forum, see the ff55 and the llvmipe mesa discussions.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:08 pm
by lucileburt
hi, is There any Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit? can you send its download link. ??

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:44 pm
by jamesh
feelslikeautumn wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:48 pm
I think a lot of these discussions miss a crucial point: that is the application support. ARM is not a priority for many application developers, but if they are going to have some sort of arm machine then it will probably be arm64. So I think you are more likely to have Firefox jit working in arm64 than armhf etc. Examples of this can already be seen on the forum, see the ff55 and the llvmipe mesa discussions.
I would expect that if they want a Arm board, then the Raspberry Pi is the obvious choice. 15M sold.....that s much bigger market than any officially 64 bit ARM board.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:48 pm
by fruitoftheloom
lucileburt wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:08 pm
hi, is There any Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit? can you send its download link. ??
Yes I have already posted link above to Fedora 26 here it is again with direct link:

fedora-26-rpi3-aarch64-20170710.raw.xz 10-Jul-2017 16:08 293M

https://www.kraxel.org/repos/images/

https://www.kraxel.org/blog/2017/07/fre ... -uploaded/

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:02 pm
by feelslikeautumn
jamesh wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 9:44 pm
I would expect that if they want a Arm board, then the Raspberry Pi is the obvious choice. 15M sold.....that s much bigger market than any officially 64 bit ARM board.
You've clearly never compiled Firefox. They are not going to be working on a pi.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:43 am
by rpdom
feelslikeautumn wrote:
Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:02 pm
You've clearly never compiled Firefox. They are not going to be working on a pi.
Maybe not for the compiling, but for the testing on a target machine it does make sense.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:40 am
by feelslikeautumn
I don't think it necessarily works like that. From a ff bug report:
I don't think you should expect swift action on this. ARM Linux (other than Android) is a tier-3 platform for us and we do not dedicate resources to it, depending instead on distros to support it and submit patches: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/S ... igurations.
Of the 15m sold, a large number of raspberries will be sitting unused in drawer, a large number will be doing something embedded, a large number are too slow to do anything reasonable on a desktop. Pi usage will be a tiny percentage of the total number of Firefox users.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:40 am
by jamesh
feelslikeautumn wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:40 am
I don't think it necessarily works like that. From a ff bug report:
I don't think you should expect swift action on this. ARM Linux (other than Android) is a tier-3 platform for us and we do not dedicate resources to it, depending instead on distros to support it and submit patches: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/S ... igurations.
Of the 15m sold, a large number of raspberries will be sitting unused in drawer, a large number will be doing something embedded, a large number are too slow to do anything reasonable on a desktop. Pi usage will be a tiny percentage of the total number of Firefox users.
Probably. But figures like that are impossible to predict with any accuracy. Firefox is a bit pants now anyway. We build and test Chromium (and also add new features), so that is the way to go. If Firefox don't want Raspberry Pi business, that is their lookout. I expect about 30M-40M Raspberry Pi's in the field within 5-7 years. Even with a high 'drawer' rate, that is still a lot of kit. Add in other ARM devices, which is a market that is only going to get bigger, and FF's decision may start to look a bit like the decision to write Scratch 2 in Flash.

Personal opinion, but anyone who isn't interested in ARM platforms for the future might need to look again. Once we have a full desktop class ARM device in the field, the market is going to explode. Cheap, low power, does everything you need. Only disadvantage, no Windows.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:56 am
by fruitoftheloom
jamesh wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:40 am
Only disadvantage, no Windows.
Really ??

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/05/1 ... nstration/

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:17 am
by jahboater
Sounds fast :)
It's an x86 emulation layer between Windows 10 and the Qualcomm Snapdragon 835
processor underneath (chosen for its battery life,

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:35 am
by fruitoftheloom
jahboater wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:17 am
Sounds fast :)
It's an x86 emulation layer between Windows 10 and the Qualcomm Snapdragon 835
processor underneath (chosen for its battery life,
The 835 is an Octa-Core 64bit ARM CPU and supports DDR4 memory, so it will be no worse than Atom CPU boxes..

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:32 am
by Koeshi
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:35 am
no worse than Atom CPU boxes..
That's like saying being run over by a Ford doesn't hurt any worse than being run over by a Toyota.

Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:55 am
by bensimmo
They're only going to get faster though, they have to start (or restart) somewhere.
The knowledge from the IoT Core and Pro Core (I think it's called for the 64bit version) will of course help as they move Windows forward.
I assume there is a large server market of Arm devices they probably wish to tap into at some point.
Cover your bases at this point in time.