fruitoftheloom
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:19 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:55 am
They're only going to get faster though, they have to start (or restart) somewhere.
The knowledge from the IoT Core and Pro Core (I think it's called for the 64bit version) will of course help as they move Windows forward.
I assume there is a large server market of Arm devices they probably wish to tap into at some point.
Cover your bases at this point in time.
....also Windows 10 Phone use Snapdragon SoC.
Retired disgracefully.....

bkirvin
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:53 pm

If you are interested in MongoDB, 64 bit is a definite advantage as the currently supported MongoDB on 32 bit Rasbian is old and limited to 2GB of data

jeremyconstellation
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:02 pm

Databases (stored on a drive other than the SD card, generally) are the reason I use a 64-bit OS on the Pi (MongoDB and RethinkDB). Hoping Raspbian gets there soon, but until then, the other distro(s) will have to do.

ericlp
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:57 am

https://libre.computer/2018/03/21/raspb ... omparison/

According to this article, there are many speed benefits from adapting to apps that are using 64 bit OS.

These boards do have more ram, 2GB. But, the same Processor, ARM Cortex-A53 CPU .

I am not expert on these matters, I only have the pi, and I know, that buying one of these boards would be a pretty big gamble, not just getting something that works (hardware) wise, but also, having a large community to help out with issues.

I think maybe Rpi 4, will see a change in 64 bit OS. But, that probably will not be promised till next year, unless there is a huge advancement in ARM processors.

All this being said, I did purchase one off of amazon, just to bang it around and see if it's really faster. That is if I don't get frustrated first and toss it out the window when it doesn't want to run the apps I run on the Pi! LOL! But, for me, if it happens that the app I do run, runs twice or even faster than a pi, it will have been worth it.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:38 am

Interesting benchmarks especially the Java one.
Netbeans and Processing should benefit.

Would be interesting to try those benchmarks in Gentoo Aarch64 now.
If it is using NEON for crypto then under Aarch64 that should be faster too.

A fairer test would be to run the others with 32bit OS's like Raspbian.
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sakaki
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:45 am

linam wrote:
Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:58 am
hi,

is There any Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit? I would be grateful if you could send its download link.
In addition to those distros already mentioned, I maintain a bootable 64-bit Gentoo image for the RPi3 B / B+. It ships with a reasonable set of precompiled apps (Firefox Quantum, LibreOffice, GIMP etc) and starts up straight into an Xfce4 desktop, so although it's Gentoo, you don't have to compile or configure anything just to try it out. Bluetooth, sound, VC4 GL rendering and WiFi (dual band on the 3B+) are supported.

Download link: https://github.com/sakaki-/gentoo-on-rpi3-64bit

Here's a screenshot (running on an RPi3 B+):
Image

There's also a thread about this image on these forums, here.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:02 am

Hi Sakaki, since you are here, is Java on Gentoo?
I am in the middle of upgrading, could not find 32GB EVO+ and had to settle for Sandisk 32GB extreme.

Can answer it myself now "OpenJDK 64-bit Server VM."
Netbeans and Processing ebuilds?
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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sakaki
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:23 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:02 am
Hi Sakaki, since you are here, is Java on Gentoo?
I am in the middle of upgrading, could not find 32GB EVO+ and had to settle for Sandisk 32GB extreme.

Can answer it myself now "OpenJDK 64-bit Server VM."
Netbeans and Processing ebuilds?
Yes, as you just noted the image ships with the OpenJDK version 8 (icedtea build, 3.7.0) preinstalled.
Haven't looked at building netbeans yet. Just got go-1.10.1 built though, will push to the binhost after testing, probably on Sun.

cjan
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:36 am

why your build can play VLC? which version which v_out driver?

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sakaki
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:49 am

cjan wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:36 am
why your build can play VLC? which version which v_out driver?
Yes, it ships with vlc 2.2.8. Output is via GL (the image uses vc4-fkms-v3d with Mesa userland support).

Also included on the image is smplayer 18.3.0 and kodi 17.4_rc1, in case VLC not to your taste.

Edit: forgot to mention this above, but this image is also available for installation via PINN (it is called "Gentoo64" there).

cjan
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:45 pm

sakaki wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:49 am
cjan wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:36 am
why your build can play VLC? which version which v_out driver?
Yes, it ships with vlc 2.2.8. Output is via GL (the image uses vc4-fkms-v3d with Mesa userland support).
thanks, does mesa is last-18.0.1?

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sakaki
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:13 pm

cjan wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:45 pm
thanks, does mesa is last-18.0.1?
mesa is v18.0.0 on the image. You can see a complete list of the pre-installed packages, with versions, here.

hth ,sakaki

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Gavinmc42
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:45 am

You've clearly never compiled Firefox. They are not going to be working on a pi.
Some people regard statements like that as a challenge, some don't read them and just do it ;)

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Neddy ... Build_Root
Once Rust and Cargo were working on Gentoo Aarch64, Firefox followed.
I am using version Firefox 58.0.1 on my Pi3B+s
Only disadvantage, no Windows.
A couple of Gentoo users have done what MS cannot or will not do.
Probably a very good marketing reason Windows does not run on Pi's ;)

I don't know about anyone else but I am relishing my freedom from Windows.
I tried , I really did, to upgrade to Win10 but my PC boxes were just too old.
Spend a weekend upgrading and the next update kills it, did this for months on many old PC's.
Gave up, Linux Mint got installed on two boxes in a few hours, upgraded twice no problems.
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

Heater
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:03 am

jamesh,
Personal opinion, but anyone who isn't interested in ARM platforms for the future might need to look again. Once we have a full desktop class ARM device in the field, the market is going to explode.
The growth of ARM into a desktop or server class machine is welcome. Having competition in those spaces can only be a good thing.
Only disadvantage, no Windows.
Personally I consider that to be an advantage. Having the world dependent on a single supplier for it's software infrastructure is not a good thing.

Besides Windows and the like are the reason the Pi was conceived!

For most of the world's population a PC style machine and Windows is not required. They do most of what they do in the browser. MS knows this, which is why they are heavily pushing for us to become dependent on their cloud services and the desktop OS is now a lesser priority in the company.

Personal opinion, but anyone I'm not much interested in ARM platforms for the future. It's just a jump from one closed proprietary CISC architecture to another. Albeit with some advantages in power consumption and that multiple chip vendors can compete in building them.

Looks like Apple might get to your desktop ARM vision first, with their owned souped up ARM designs.

Raspberry Pi should be looking to the future, breaking free and adopting RISC V for future Pi.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Gavinmc42
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:08 am

Raspberry Pi should be looking to the future, breaking free and adopting RISC V for future Pi.
I think there was an interview where Eben did talk about RISC-V, so don't rule it out.

There is a few RISC-V chips around now but I don't see any matching GPUs.
RPT is still a small engineering team, design a new RISC-V chip with GPU?
Not going to be quick to do, there are much lower risk options.
Besides, is it "The Mission" to designs chips?

Quite few people have now done Aarch64 spins and a lot of that is being upstreamed.
Most major Linux distributions will probably have Aarm64 spins for Pi's by the end of 2018.
This will lower the need for a Raspbian64 OS as people will have a multiplicity of choices ;)

Raspbian is for teaching, I started learning Linux with it and have mostly moved on to other OS's.
Raspbian got me comfortable with Linux but using PiCore made me really learn basic Linux and shell scripting.
Gentoo now is making me learn a whole new version of 64bit Linux, no big deal.

A Debian64 version would have been nice, but not important.
Important for me is learning Aarch64 and all the improvements it can bring to Machine Learning.

Why do people want 64bit OS?
Those who really, really, really want ARMv8A don't have to wait for a Raspbian version.
The hard part has been done, just proving that it can be done ;)
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:28 pm

Gavinmc42,
There is a few RISC-V chips around now but I don't see any matching GPUs.
That is OK. We have already got a GPU, the Pi's Video Core.
RPT is still a small engineering team, design a new RISC-V chip with GPU?
They are smart guys and they have already done that. The Pi was created by bolting an ARM into to an existing video chip design that did not a have a general purpose CPU on board.

No need to design a RISC-V. There are already open designs like the BOOM that turn in impressive performance. Just hook up with SiFive and use that. Or what about the the LowRisk guys down across town in Cambridge.

I think the stumbling block here would be getting Broadcom on board with the idea. But hey, Broadcom should be looking to build RISC V already!
Besides, is it "The Mission" to designs chips?
Not exactly. But as a charitable organization a major part of whose mission includes building a computer to support education I feel they should be looking for the most open solutions in all things. As I said, they have already built chips to support that mission.

It's great to see 64 bit operating systems arrive for the Pi. I have been checking pi64. I agree, there is no hurry to move Raspbian to 64 bit.

Gentoo is a blast from the past. Gentoo was my primary OS for a few years back in 2000 or so. Great to see it is still alive and well.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

tpylkko
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:17 pm

Not to be pedantic - or actually why not? - but it is LowRISC. And IIRC they promised to deliver a working chip last year, now it is the middle of this year already and no word, so perhaps don't hold your breath.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:36 pm

Yes, why not? Better to try and get things right.

LowRISC does seem to be behind schedule. Hardly an uncommon phenomena. They are only a couple of guys working from a loft in Cambridge.

Meanwhile, SiFive and others have some chips out, things are moving along.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jamesh
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:22 pm

LowRISC would be High Risk. So not for the foreseeable future.

Even though Alex Bradbury of LowRISC is married to Carrie-Anne of the RPF.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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Heater
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:37 pm

A match made in heaven :)

Got bored waiting for a RISC V chip so I started to design my own:

https://github.com/ZiCog/sodor-spinal

All I need now is the cash for a tape out...
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Gavinmc42
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:42 am

There is a few RISC-V chips around now but I don't see any matching GPUs.

That is OK. We have already got a GPU, the Pi's Video Core.
8 x RISC-V cores and VC5? :D
Wonder how much the ARM license fees are?
That would be a RPF custom chip, very hard for clones to make them ;)

But that is not a 64bit OS, that's Pi4 or Pi5.
Any Linux kernels for RISC-V yet?
Any 64bit RISC-V silicon to test it on?
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Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

mic_s
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Mon Apr 23, 2018 3:34 am

... Risc-V ...
Risc -V ? We are off-topic.

But if you like you are free to build your own 32-bit-risc-v processor with low-cost fpgas ( 5-10 US-$ in single quantities, for a 32bit-single-core-riscV ) on your own raspberry pi HAT. Communication with the pi (0,1,2,3,3+..) via SMI (or usb, or I2C). RiscV-Verilog-code is free so you can do your own modifications and experiments.

32-bit-riscV : e.g. https://github.com/cliffordwolf/picorv32

64-bit-riscV : e.g. https://github.com/pulp-platform/ariane ,

or multicore U540 SoC (sifive, dev-board some 1000 US-$) ... or ... or ...

.

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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:42 am

To be clear, RISC V is not a processor or any kind of chip. RISC V is not a processor architecture or any particular processor design in Verilog, VHDL, or other HDL. RISC V is only the specification of a computer instruction set (ISA)

That sounds like nothing much, the world is full of such ISA specifications. The brilliant part of it is that if you want to build a processor the RISC V instruction set specification is open and free to use, unlike our familiar Intel, ARM and other instruction sets.

I don't expect to see a RISC V Raspberry Pi any time soon. I suspect that if a Pi like RISC V board ever comes about it will be from elsewhere.

As it stands there are many free and open source implementations in Verilog and Chisel that you can use in FPGA, or use to get your own chip design made. There are also closed source designs coming along. All the tools you need, compilers etc, to get a RISC V system running are available. Linux has been running on RISC V devices for ages.

This guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLs_NRwu1Y4&t=1s is building in a RISC V computer with logic chips, no FPGA.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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bensimmo
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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:32 am

Why not just skip 64 bit and go 128 with whatever comes next in a CPU.
Webpages aren't getting any less complicated ;-)

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Re: The Raspberry Pi Desktop OS 64 bit

Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:21 am

Strangely enough the RISC V specification includes a 128 bit version.

They were designing the ISA to be extensible in all kind of ways, including 32 bit and 64 bit operation, so they included the possibility of 128 bit, almost as a joke.

Turned out those guys building gigantic data warehouses are taking the idea seriously...
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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