obarthelemy
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:01 pm

I hope you\'ve stopped buying oil and copper too, coz...
http://www.transparency.org/policy_rese ... 10/results

jamesh
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:16 pm

It\'s not a question of stopping everything - that\'s not feasible in most cases. It\'s a question buying ethically whenever you can. In this case, buying Pi over Chinese knockoff.
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Piw32
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:44 pm

For most of the people buying their stuff at Wallmart, ethics is a luxury they cannot afford.

boley
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:00 pm

A Pi like device, with or without a display that doesn\'t have a PI like community(what we ideally think it will become), or commitment to advance the purpose of the PI, is not an attractive option at half the price. At least not for its intended market. I would say this forum, in its early stages, is already worth $12.50 per PI user where 1 Pi = 1 user. Of course if you are planning on using the Pi as an embedded OEM device and buying by the thousands, you probably will want to save a few bucks a unit.

Piw32
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 1:24 pm

quote from Micdigi website :
[quote]According to the analysis, VIA reduces the shipments of WM8650 to give way to WM8950.

The features of VIA chips are: cheap price, common performance and runs stably.

With the three features, tablet based on VIA solution has goods sales.

WM8950 is also based on A9 core and 800MHz frequency. The Allwinner has released the A10 which is only $5. I think WM8950 will not be more expensive than Allwinner A10.

With WM8950 chip, the tablet based on resistive screen will be less than $50.[/quote]

Ryiah
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:35 pm

[quote]Quote from boley on December 20, 2011, 20:00
A Pi like device, with or without a display that doesn\'t have a PI like community(what we ideally think it will become), or commitment to advance the purpose of the PI, is not an attractive option at half the price.[/quote]
Exactly my thoughts. I already tried my hand at the cheap tablet market. To date it is the most expensive paper weight I own.

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Jongoleur
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:41 am

Sorry if I sound ratty, but I\'m up at 3am due to other things and this visit is in the nature of a distraction.

WTF is all this crap about $50 tablets?

In the UK, a nasty Chinese tablet with an 800 Mhz processor, 256Mb RAM, 2Gb flash, an appallingly insensitive 7\" resistive screen, minimal ports and running Android 1.6 - 2.2 will cost in the region of £70 retail.

When I last looked, $50 equates to about £31. Now, this fantastic sum MAY be available at the manufacturers door if you were to purchase direct but then you have import duties, local tax and shipping to factor in. Do you do trust the company you\'re buying it from to send you something that actually is what you think you\'re buying? And what about support if things go wrong?

Now, I have experience of a cheap Android tablet, a 7\" Disgo 6000 to be precise. Imported by a European reseller, it was priced in the £70 region and was disappointing in all areas and ultimately faulty too. Luckily I was able to return it for a full refund, bit if I had not bought it locally I probably would have an expensive paperweight too.

If anyone thinks that an interest in computer programming can be inculcated by supplying a piece of hardware as CRAP as a cheap android tablet at any price, let alone a £30 price point, then they\'re not only barking up the wrong tree, but probably barking mad too.

In October, India announced a cheap tablet scheme An initiative designed to get 220 million Indian children on line, it seems that it will only reach the relatively wealthy in major population areas; the rural poor won\'t be able to afford a subsidised price of $31, and even if a benefactor handed some out, connectivity to the WWW would be lacking.

Now, its nice to have the opportunity to discuss how much better it would be to have something other than what the Raspberry Pi is going to be for a bit more than the price the Raspberry Pi is going to be sold at, but given the current capabilities of kit that is sold at three times the price of the basic Pi, then IT AIN\'T EFFING WORTH IT!

Nightnight.
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hippy
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 12:54 pm

[quote]Quote from Jongoleur on December 22, 2011, 03:41
WTF is all this crap about $50 tablets?[/quote]

I bet some people said that when they heard there would be Model B R-Pi at $25. There are still some who don\'t believe it :-)

Of course we all know that a $25 R-Pi is going to cost more than that once one adds a power supply, SD card, case, keyboard, mouse, cables, shipping, duty and taxes. On the plus side the Foundation isn\'t seeking to mark-up and maximise profits, doesn\'t have resellers wanting the same.

There are many sub-$50 Digital Picture Frames in the market, many quite capable, and adding a touch screen would create a tolerable tablet - That\'s probably the actual heritage of some cheap tablets.

I\'ll agree; currently priced tablets don\'t compete with the R-Pi, but it\'s entirely likely they will in the future. Even if price is not directly comparable it\'s a \'value for money\' judgement. There\'s no reason a cheap tablet couldn\'t match an R-Pi for learning programming or having use in other projects ( adding a touch screen LCD doesn\'t invalidate the R-Pi ). The R-Pi\'s advantage is \'designed to be open\' and its potential user community but there\'s no reason another product cannot gain a decent user community and overcome any closed-design issues as happened with DD-WRT etc.

One thing which has bemused me is the way some people have rejected tablets as absolutely impractical - no keyboard, no mouse, small screen - which becomes an irrelevancy if you can connect external USB devices and a monitor or TV. They may not support that now, but let\'s hope they do in the future. After all, an R-Pi with a touch screen tends towards a tablet, a tablet with additional I/O tends towards an R-Pi. Hardware is hardware, and just a platform to build upon.

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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:08 pm

I think that if you can get Linux running on a cheapo tablet, (rather than Android), then there is no reason they should be any different to the Raspi for teaching purposes as long as you can plug in to a monitor/TV and keyboard/mouse. However, they will be more expensive.
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obarthelemy
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:09 pm

I think cheap tablets could/should be competing with the Pi, at least on the hardware side: projects with a pi + screen + battery + wifi end up being more costly than a tablet.

I\'m looking into it, but running up against issues:
- hackability is iffy, especially on the cheap,marginal tablets. Most branded ones do have documented Linux hacks, the cheap ones do not. Cheapest ones I could find with a sure Linux hack are the $200 Archos ones. Bricking is a real possibility, too. Android is really keyboard/mouse unfriendly, so Linux is a must-have.
- notwithstanding specs, quality is unknown. I\'ve bought an excellent $150 tablet, and a junk $99 one.
- quite a few don\'t have USB host/OTG, or don\'t make it available.
- there\'s no active, accessible community like for the Pi ^^

hippy
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:43 pm

[quote]Quote from obarthelemy on December 22, 2011, 13:09
- there\'s no active, accessible community like for the Pi ^^
[/quote]

That\'s the make or break for most people. Firstly having the community, and secondly a community which is willing to lead others through their trials and tribulations. Otherwise it ends up as a closed ecosystem; those who can just do it, those who would like to but need help being left on the outside.

The R-Pi looks set to have an advantage over other alternatives in having cheap unbrickable hardware which is capable in itself and wide community interest, the \'educational focus\' hopefully providing help until people can get to a point of knowledge where they can help themselves ( and others ).

The R-Pi, for me, is not a perfect product ( no mounting holes, awkward connector placement, no VGA ) but it meets its design goals and the advantages outweigh its limitations. Nothing else is perfect for me either, not at the price I\'m prepared to pay, so it\'s still the pick of the crop.

Piw32
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:08 pm

Is this a Raspi ?
[img]http://micdigi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/87.jpg[/img]

No, it\'s a Chinese TV set top box mainboard !
[img]http://micdigi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/322.jpg[/img]
[img]http://micdigi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/419.jpg[/img]

[quote]Configurations: Amlogic 8726 processor, A9-core, Android OS, 512M memory, WIFI, customized UI, RJ45 port, USB port, TF card slot and mali400 GPU.
Aml8726 processor is based on Cortex A9 and Mali400 GPU. Most of Android programs run smoothly on the TV box.
Without screen and battery, it is cheaper than a tablet.[/quote]
http://micdigi.com/2011/11/google-tv-bo ... echnology/

jamesh
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:30 pm

I think if you took apart a Roku 2 you might find something even more Pi like since it uses the same SoC.
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:43 pm

The BCM59002 is the Mobile Power Management Unit, not the SoC.

EDIT: one of the comments at the Tech Republic link says the SoC is under the Samsung DRAM chip, i.e., it\'s a Package on Package like RasPi.

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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:57 pm

Indeed - some of the first breakdowns I saw of that Roku board online actually failed to spot the BCM2835 altogether, and there was lots of speculation about how on earth they actually did the processing!
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Benedict White
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:32 am

The original poster seems to miss the point.

Who cares what consumer electronics is out there, no matter how cool it is, the point here is a development tool that is cheap and can probably use things the developer already has or can get cheaply (like TV, keyboard mouse etc) to have a platform, and for that developer to be a child.

I really like the GPIO as well.

None of the devices listed by PIW32 appear to have a GPIO, an easy choice of OS\'s or programming environments which seems to indicate that they have no idea what the point of the RaspberryPi is.

radu
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:21 am

Not everyone needs GPIO, not everyone has a compatible TV, not everyone has reliable power supply, the RasPi doesn\'t come with wifi, power supply, case, any input devices, and can\'t be used by itself. A tablet can.

jamesh
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:40 am

[quote]Quote from radu on December 24, 2011, 10:21
Not everyone needs GPIO, not everyone has a compatible TV, not everyone has reliable power supply, the RasPi doesn\'t come with wifi, power supply, case, any input devices, and can\'t be used by itself. A tablet can.[/quote]

There are always tradeoffs. A tablet make a really bad programming platform, and costs three times as much for a really bad one.

Swings and roundabouts. If a tablet does what you need at an acceptable price, get a tablet. It is entirely your choice.
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:10 am

[quote]Quote from radu on December 24, 2011, 10:21
Not everyone needs GPIO, not everyone has a compatible TV, not everyone has reliable power supply, the RasPi doesn\'t come with wifi, power supply, case, any input devices, and can\'t be used by itself. A tablet can.[/quote]

GPIO: Don\'t need it? Don\'t use it!
But it does remind me of the \"User Port\" concept on the back of micros like the Vic20, C64, BBC B, etc etc. It was there, it didn\'t have to be used, but it was surprising how many useful things were hung off it.

Compatible TV: You still using a TV with just an antennna socket on the back?
Most functional TVs at least have sound/composite video inputs on the back, or a SCART plug that provides the same facilities. Anything from the past five years will have HDMI too.

Reliable power supply: \'tis true, you need power for the TV too.
Though if you live in such dire straits, then a tablet will be definitely out of your reach.

Wifi, PSU, Case, Input devices: Not needed, cheap or you\'ve got one already.
Not everyone needs or wants \"Wifi\", its an expensive extra on a static device (edit: and if you really need it, suitable wifi dongles are cheap and will plug into a USB hub). PSU. suitable 5v psu\'s are bloody cheap. Case, well the series 1 boards donb\'t have a case, true BUT the ones for schools will have cases and, I hear, the option to buy cheap suitable peripherals like, for example a keyboard and mouse fot those who don\'t have access to one already.

It can\'t be used by itself. Of course it can!
I think you mean that it isn\'t portable, and that\'s a different matter.

Tablets are designed for one market segment, the Raspberry Pi has been designed for another. There are overlaps in technology but that doesn\'t mean that one can function just as well as the other in an alien niche. Its just a surprise that there are other functions that the Pi can fulfil as well as providing a cheap computer for schoolchildren (esp those in the UK) to experiment on without buggering up the family PC.

:-)

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Piw32
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:51 pm

It seems the Amlogic 8726 (TV set top box on the previous page, and in some popular cheap tablets too) has any software tool you want :

http://www.google.fr/search?q=.....=firefox-a

TickledPink
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:15 pm

Looks like some people are missing the point. R-Pi is intended to get more people interested in hobbyist computing and learning more about how they work. How's a tablet, even a cheap one, going to do that? Where's the specific third-party support going to come from, for instance? The cheap tablets are intended to be mass-market devices for general use.

Want more functionality? Learn to add it yourself - looks like there's plenty on the board to get you going. Or just wait for the add-ons, or drivers for existing devices, that will inevitably emerge.

Benedict White
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sat Dec 24, 2011 11:19 pm


radu said:


Not everyone needs GPIO, not everyone has a compatible TV, not everyone has reliable power supply, the RasPi doesn\'t come with wifi, power supply, case, any input devices, and can\'t be used by itself. A tablet can.


In which case those who don't want a development learning tool with flexibility will not get one, in much the same way as I don't need a wheel chair so don't have one. It's a rubbish argument.

As for compatible TV, I have a black and white portable in the loft if you really need it.

PSU? Make your own... connect it via the GPIO pins or a lot of mobile phone chargers will work. The model A doesn't even come with Ethernet.

If YOU don't like it, then don't buy it.

Simples!

radu
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:48 am

JamesH said:


There are always tradeoffs. A tablet make a really bad programming platform, and costs three times as much for a really bad one.

Swings and roundabouts. If a tablet does what you need at an acceptable price, get a tablet. It is entirely your choice.



Sure there are. But for poor people a 75 usd tablet can be used as a learn programming thing. Of course, on screen keyboards are not the best for programming, but it will do the job.

And it is not 3 times more expensive than the RasPI, it is at about the same price, after you add a mouse, keyboard, psu, wifi, headphones, perhaps a USB hub..

And if you are not that poor, then you can just get a normal PC or a more expensive tablet.

Again, I am not saying the RasPI doesn't have uses. It has a lot of uses, and I am going to get one for my hobbies. But I am not poor, and I don't need to learn programming (I have almost 20 years of programming experience).

radu
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Re: $35 RasPi vs $50 tablet ?

Sun Dec 25, 2011 2:50 am

Jongoleur said:


Wifi, PSU, Case, Input devices: Not needed, cheap or you\'ve got one already.


Well, of course you don't need them. But I meant, if you buy a RasPI and you actually want to use it, then yes, you will need at the very least a PSU. I have a project in mind that doesn't require input devices, but for most uses you will need all those things (except maybe for a case).

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