Kan Lee
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use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:03 am

Hi

I am planning to use pi zero w in a commercial IoT product.
Is there a way to place a bulk order somewhere.
also can I get some more information on Pi zero W's temperature and humidity tolerance level?

Kan

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 9:19 am

Right now it is limited to 1 per customer, no bulk orders. As demand and supply converge, it should be possible to buy more than one at a time, but there is no timescale on this.

Commercial products should really use the compute module, that is what is was developed for.
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:28 am

jamesh wrote:Right now it is limited to 1 per customer, no bulk orders. As demand and supply converge, it should be possible to buy more than one at a time, but there is no timescale on this...
This is pretty much what was said about the original Pi-Zero nearly a year and a half ago, and the single unit restriction is still in place for that model. At this point I think it's safer to assume that no Pi-Zero product will be available for bulk purchase, and re-think your commercial product design to incorporate one of the other models that are made in larger quantities.

As mentioned above, the Compute Module is designed specifically for commercial applications, but other models could probably be sourced in large quantities as well.
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:48 am

Kan Lee wrote:Hi

I am planning to use pi zero w in a commercial IoT product.
Is there a way to place a bulk order somewhere.
also can I get some more information on Pi zero W's temperature and humidity tolerance level?

Kan
+1 use the Compute Module and you will be guaranteed supply in this form factor for several years:

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=176564
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:59 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:...
+1 use the Compute Module and you will be guaranteed supply in this form factor for several years
Ah, yes, form factor, another good point.

In less than 1.5 years the Pi-Zero has changed, and those changes have affected the compatibility of some of the accessories made for them. If you are designing a commercial product you don't want to use something that is going through changes often, as it could require you to re-engineer your product whenever that happens. So even if you *could* get the Pi-Zero in quantity, the Computer Module is still the better choice.
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:12 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
fruitoftheloom wrote:...
+1 use the Compute Module and you will be guaranteed supply in this form factor for several years
Ah, yes, form factor, another good point.

In less than 1.5 years the Pi-Zero has changed, and those changes have affected the compatibility of some of the accessories made for them. If you are designing a commercial product you don't want to use something that is going through changes often, as it could require you to re-engineer your product whenever that happens. So even if you *could* get the Pi-Zero in quantity, the Computer Module is still the better choice.
This is something that was almost overlooked by the mass media, but one or two small bloggers who like to include gleanings from conversations with 'those who know' mentioned it on day 1 :lol: ...
It’s A Special Edition Model
The Raspberry Pi Zero is a special edition model, so nothing (long-term availability, price stability, feature set or form factor) is guaranteed past the initial production run(s). However, if it’s popular enough, it’s quite possible that more will be made.

It might not be wise to bet your livelihood on developing a ‘Pi Zero-only’ add-on though.
http://raspi.tv/2015/raspberry-pi-zero- ... i-magazine

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:57 pm

The OP has started a compute Module Post: viewtopic.php?f=63&t=176681
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:27 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:the Compute Module is designed specifically for commercial applications
...at the low, low price of only $148 when you include the I/O board.

Really craving a low-cost industrial board like the C.H.I.P. Pro, which isn't quite ready.

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:36 pm

SlowBro wrote:
HawaiianPi wrote:the Compute Module is designed specifically for commercial applications
...at the low, low price of only $148 when you include the I/O board.

Really craving a low-cost industrial board like the C.H.I.P. Pro, which isn't quite ready.
The Carrier Board is a one off cost, the actual product would use a custom Carrier Board.


The C.H.I.P. does not have a history of delivering on promises and totally relies on Community Support for the available Operating Systems.
Last edited by fruitoftheloom on Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:38 pm

I think if they integrate the Wifi and BT in the compute module and keep it at $25 ( without the SD Card) - it will become an attractive option for Commerial production.

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:43 pm

digger72 wrote:I think if they integrate the Wifi and BT in the compute module and keep it at $25 ( without the SD Card) - it will become an attractive option for Commerial production.
There are cheap WiFi solutions that could easily be added to a commercial product. Integration in something like the CM is not needed, or desired for that matter (harder to upgrade to newer standards in the future).
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:54 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:The Carrier Board is a one off cost, the actual product would use a custom Carrier Board.
Could someone please point to a some notes on building a custom Carrier Board? I googled around and didn't find what I was looking for. Probably don't know what to search on yet.

[Edit] Found it:
https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... T-V1_0.pdf

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:08 pm

digger72 wrote:I think if they integrate the Wifi and BT in the compute module and keep it at $25 ( without the SD Card) - it will become an attractive option for Commerial production.
For a commercial product, the $30 CM3, which has the on-board eMMC would probably be a better choice, unless 4GB isn't enough. Either way the WiFi/BT really belongs on the carrier board...as would either a SD slot or flash if more than 4GB is needed. (For the moment, I'm discounting the yet to be released NEC CM3-16.)

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:12 pm

jamesh wrote:Right now it is limited to 1 per customer, no bulk orders. As demand and supply converge, it should be possible to buy more than one at a time, but there is no timescale on this.
Well... WD would appear to have gotten a bunch of Pi Zeros since they're selling the PiDrive Node Zero and allow ordering more than one at a time...and it includes a Pi Zero. Of course, $45 apiece means it's not a viable way to get multiple Pi Zeros...

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:16 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
jamesh wrote:Right now it is limited to 1 per customer, no bulk orders. As demand and supply converge, it should be possible to buy more than one at a time, but there is no timescale on this.
Well... WD would appear to have gotten a bunch of Pi Zeros since they're selling the PiDrive Node Zero and allow ordering more than one at a time...and it includes a Pi Zero. Of course, $45 apiece means it's not a viable way to get multiple Pi Zeros...
I don't know what the deal is there. And probably never will!
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:39 pm

As deals can always be done, perhaps dropping the pi guys an email asking what sort of deal could secure a bulk order of pi zero's, as no idiot would ever say no to some profit, might be a course of action worth following?

If the costs are competative when compared to other options like the CM3 route, maybe its a goer, just like getting a custom built pi board (non pizero) is a possibility through element 14/rs components if the price is right.

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:29 pm

For those recommending the compute module, I don't think you understand the issue at all.

The Compute module has few useful components and costs $25 each from what I understand. So to commercialize it, I need to develop my own custom board (don't know how, adds cost) and then each unit costs $25 + custom board unit cost? When I can get the Raspberry Pi Zero W that has all the necessary components (no carrier board needed), ready to go out of the box at what, $10 / unit? As long as you can get the board you've targeted for a few years (as the original Pi has been, for example), the form factor changes are often irrelevant. The computer module also does not fit in spaces where the raspberry pi zero will as it is much bigger with it's carrier board, which can be very critical for commercial applications.

Open to being corrected, but from where I stand, it would rarely mane any economic or business sense to use the compute board to replace the raspberry pi zero or zero W. Raspberry Pi, maybe. But not the Zero. The original question is quite valid and useful IMO.

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:49 am

thatguy321 wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:29 pm
For those recommending the compute module, I don't think you understand the issue at all.

The Compute module has few useful components and costs $25 each from what I understand. So to commercialize it, I need to develop my own custom board (don't know how, adds cost) and then each unit costs $25 + custom board unit cost? When I can get the Raspberry Pi Zero W that has all the necessary components (no carrier board needed), ready to go out of the box at what, $10 / unit? As long as you can get the board you've targeted for a few years (as the original Pi has been, for example), the form factor changes are often irrelevant. The computer module also does not fit in spaces where the raspberry pi zero will as it is much bigger with it's carrier board, which can be very critical for commercial applications.

Open to being corrected, but from where I stand, it would rarely mane any economic or business sense to use the compute board to replace the raspberry pi zero or zero W. Raspberry Pi, maybe. But not the Zero. The original question is quite valid and useful IMO.
It is feasible to use a CM with a small carrier board, WDL has achieved this aim:

https://www.wdc.com/products/wdlabs/wd- ... WDLB005RNN

The CM is about long term availability, the ZERO is not guaranteed.....................
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:34 am

AFAIK the Pi0 and Pi0W are still only available to order one at a time (unless you add the cost of a GPIO connector pre-soldered). That is a major limitation for commercial systems.
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:36 am

thatguy321 wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:29 pm
For those recommending the compute module, I don't think you understand the issue at all.

The Compute module has few useful components and costs $25 each from what I understand. So to commercialize it, I need to develop my own custom board (don't know how, adds cost) and then each unit costs $25 + custom board unit cost? When I can get the Raspberry Pi Zero W that has all the necessary components (no carrier board needed), ready to go out of the box at what, $10 / unit? As long as you can get the board you've targeted for a few years (as the original Pi has been, for example), the form factor changes are often irrelevant. The computer module also does not fit in spaces where the raspberry pi zero will as it is much bigger with it's carrier board, which can be very critical for commercial applications.

Open to being corrected, but from where I stand, it would rarely mane any economic or business sense to use the compute board to replace the raspberry pi zero or zero W. Raspberry Pi, maybe. But not the Zero. The original question is quite valid and useful IMO.
You cannot buy the Pi0W for $10 in quantity, only one at a time. You can buy in large quantities, but you will pay more for a production run.

If you don't have the board design skills to make a CM carrier, then the Z would be a choice, but many many commercial people want the guaranteed supply, form factor, upgrade path and ability to add your own support circuitry that the CM gives you. It's price also drops with quantity. The CM3 is also a heck of a lot more powerful than the Zero which some customers may require. Also, size in commercial products is generally not an issue for most companies. NEC use the CM in their industrial display TV's for example.
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:01 am

thatguy321,
Open to being corrected, but from where I stand, it would rarely mane any economic or business sense to use the compute board to replace the raspberry pi zero or zero W.
At the current state of play basing ones commercial product on a zero, which is not available in quantity and not guaranteed to be around, is like basing ones product on the free toys that fall out of cornflake packets or you get with your burger at McDonalds.

Makes no business sense to me. Unless your business plan does not call for any volume or longevity.

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:42 am

Heater wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:01 am
thatguy321,
Open to being corrected, but from where I stand, it would rarely mane any economic or business sense to use the compute board to replace the raspberry pi zero or zero W.
At the current state of play basing ones commercial product on a zero, which is not available in quantity and not guaranteed to be around, is like basing ones product on the free toys that fall out of cornflake packets or you get with your burger at McDonalds.

Makes no business sense to me. Unless your business plan does not call for any volume or longevity.
You can buy Zero's in quantity, if you commit to large scale purchasing (1000's), and you will pay more than the individual price (i.e. > $10 for the Pi0W). Basically, a deal with the Foundation. PM me for more information.
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:32 am

My gut says the Zero series are intended to be loss leaders for their other products. Thus it would make sense they wouldn’t want to produce too many of them. Smart but annoying :-)

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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:36 am

Thus it would make sense they wouldn’t want to produce too many of them. Smart but annoying
Not sure, was it 80,000 a week or 80,000 a month?
Is that what you call not many :lol:
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Re: use pi zero w in commercial production

Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:06 pm

SlowBro wrote:
Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:32 am
My gut says the Zero series are intended to be loss leaders for their other products.
From other discussions here, not actually loss-leaders, but wafer thin profits. The rest of the argument still applies, to the extent that bulk purchases are at a premium, not a discount. :o :shock:
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