Seeking nScope Advice

[SetDog]

Has anyone used a nScope connected to their RPi, or otherwise? www.nscope.org

I'm a newb; I was thinking about getting one, and wanted to know what more experienced people might have to say about it.


Thanks

[Heater]

nscope is a neat idea. But it seems rather over priced. One can get a 100 times better digital oscilloscope for a few times more money.

None of the software downloads I can find for nscope are for ARM processors so there is nothing out of the box that will work on the Pi.

I was going to suggest downloading the source from the nscope github repository https://github.com/nLabs-nScope but they don't seem to keep the source there. Only binary builds. Which as a bit of a weird theing to do.

[Heater]

Ah, I found this on the kickstarter page:

"nScope will not be open source, but instead has an open API."

So it's not going to be usable on the Pi unless you can beg them to build a Pi version of the software.

Edit: Which it seems they have done: http://www.nscope.org/nscope-on-raspberry-pi/

As such I think the whole thing is a dead end and best steered away from.

Might as well get a cheap USB oscilloscope like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-sh ... 4.2.zrrCXz

Or splash out for something better:

http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscillosco ... scope.html

[B.Goode]

it's not going to be usable on the Pi unless you can beg them to build a Pi version of the software.

http://www.nscope.org/nscope-on-raspberry-pi/

That doesn't answer the OP's request for real life feedback.

[Heater]

Ah yes, that's better. How did I miss that?

Having never used an nscope I can't comment on how well it works. Given it's closed source, slow speed and high price I'd be inclined to look for more general purpose and faster alternatives.

On the other hand I can see it is perhaps an ideal solution for it's intended use. A simple, compact, all in one way to get on with those bread board lab experiments and demonstrations. It provides power as well if I understand correctly.

If that is all you want a scope for it may be fine.

[DougieLawson]

nscope is a neat idea. But it seems rather over priced. One can get a 100 times better digital oscilloscope for a few times more money.

Wow! $94 is way overpriced for what you're getting until you compare it to the well know BitScope
http://my.bitscope.com/store/?p=list&a=list&i=cat+0

[Heater]

From the way you have phrased that Dougie, I can't tell if you think the price compares favorably with the bitscope or not. Or are they both over priced for what you get?

bitscope looks like fun to me. Bit more expensive but 5 times the bandwidth and more general purpose.

But then for only three times the cost you could have a real scope 50MHz, 1GSa/s.http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscillosco ... 1052E.html

But then the nscope has some kind of function generator, supplies power and plugs to a bread board for those plug'n'go experimnts in class.

All depends what you want to do. And budget of course.

If you have aspirations to get serious about electronics it's worth saving up for a real scope.

Personally I don't like the idea of having my scope dependent on a PC/laptop.

[DougieLawson]

From the way you have phrased that Dougie, I can't tell if you think the price compares favorably with the bitscope or not. Or are they both over priced for what you get?

I looked at the BitScope until I saw the price, it appears to have more function and better support (there's been a couple of MagPi articles on it). Both appear to be very expensive.

An expert electronics repairer that I know has offered me one of his old scopes so I may take him up on that.

[gregeric]

If it's just to play with / use as a first 'scope, the STM Discovery F429 makes a nice toy oszi for peak 3V DC signals like the Pi.

The board's supported by mbed too for easy use as an Arduino on steroids.

But yeah, a proper scope if you can.

[Heater]

That's the way to do it. When I was keen on messing with electronics in 1980 something I bagged a Tektronics scope. All 30 kilos of it! Like so: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/scope ... 3frmed.jpg

Cost me all of £1.

It was too big and heavy to move so I eventually donated it to a jumble sale. Some 12 year old boy snapped it up. Hope he learned well with it.

Recently I got the urge to fiddle with circuits again. So now I have a Rigol DS1054 sitting in front of me. 4 channels, 50MHz, 1GSa/s. Wonderful machine. Only 400 Euro. (Hackable to 100MHz ! http://hackaday.com/2014/11/12/how-to-g ... l-ds1054z/)

http://www.batronix.com/shop/oscillosco ... 1054Z.html

[gregeric]

My first scope was an army surplus Cossor CDU150. Built like a tank as you'd expect. Delayed sweep n all sorts of loveliness. Then the triggering went, so now I use it as a step to reach the top of the kitchen cupboards (I told you it was built strong). Try doing that with an nScope!

[Heater]

You mean like this Cossor http://www.uploadarchief.net/files/down ... c07588.jpg

Hey, I worked at Cossor for a couple of years. Sadly they were not making scopes anymore. We were building radars.

Sounds like the trigger problems cold be fixed: http://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/cos ... pair-help/

[gregeric]

Huge thanks Heater, that's the one! Will give the repair a go.

[KMyers]

I have used a Bitscope for years but not with the Raspi. I did dl the software for it but too lazy to get it out of my drawer to use it . I do recommend Bitscope but its deffinately not the Techtonix scopes I used at work!

Ken

[bensimmo]

I have CROs I cannot get rid of here , I use a Picoscope if ever I need one, primarily a windows PC DSO, they do have linux (and Raspian beta) support and a Debian repository I've noticed now you've made me look. Another thing to add to the increasing list to try

[Heater]

bensimmo,

Wow, Picoscope with Raspi software starts to sound very interesting.

I have always been put off the idea of a USB scope because of the need for a PC/Laptop and the tie in to Windows. The ability to use Linux and especially the Raspi instead changes that feeling altogether.

I would rather have the 2 channel 10MHz bandwidth Picoscope for 119 Euro (With probes) that the nScope. Even if it is two channels less.

The 4 channel 50MHz bandwidth, 1 GS/s Pico scope gets a bit pricey compared to my Rigol at 509 Euro but is still very tempting due to it's size and versatility.

[SetDog]

Hey gang,

First and foremost, thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post.
The information you generously provided was, expectedly, overwhelming.
As I said, I'm a newbie to all this; still trying to wrap my brain around the difference between amps & volts. ...But a few things have become clear:

1. nScope is not a serious tool.
2. It's overpriced.
3. I came to the right place for information.

So, my goal is to build a portable workstation I can use to learn about all this fancy electrical stuff. I'd like something I can use while sitting on the couch or while on break at work. I was originally thinking of connecting a tablet, an RPi3, and an nScope (run on a LiPo power bank) in a briefcase like enclosure. Any ideas?

[Heater]

I like the portable workstation idea.

Not sure about working from the couch though, I'd be burning holes in it with soldering iron and generally annoying 'er in doors.

I was thinking about your situation. As I kid, pre-school, I started messing with circuits by fixing 6v lamps to bits of wood and wiring them up to a battery. Later came Philips electronics kits, all the parts and instructions to build all kind of circuits including an AM radio. Later as a teenager came building HAM radios with vacuum tubes. Then digital circuits.

In all that time I had no oscilloscope. It's amazing what you can debug without one. When I could not figure out what was up with my digital circuits my father suggested I listen to them by connecting a crystal ear piece to different points. Worked a treat.

However I conclude it would have been far better if I had a scope as soon as possible. Even if it was cheap and cheerful. It's very educational to see what signals are actually doing.

So what about that portable workstation? I recently had to check out some circutry whilst visiting a customer site,in a very awkward location. I ended up borrowing a USB scope. Could have been a Pico scope. That saved my bacon!

So if you really want portable I'd suggest a serious look at the Picoscopes https://www.picotech.com/oscilloscope/2 ... 0-overview Get the highest bandwidth you can afford. With their software running on a raspi and a small screen it would be very nice. Those 16 digital inputs sound great for checking out, for example, interfacing to a Pi GPIO pins. Something my "real" scope cannot do. (You need to get the 25MHz bandwidth version to get the digital inputs which gets a bit pricey though, but then again you are getting a signal generator as well, something else my "real" does not do.)

[bensimmo]

I've not tried it on the Pi, so you may want to check first they do have an extensive Windows API though.

Maybe a portable WINDOWS tablet or I'm sure I've seen Android phone DSOs.

[Heater]

The PicoScope 2000 page says:

"The software development kit (SDK) allows you to write your own software and includes drivers for Microsoft Windows, Apple Mac (OS X) and Linux (including Raspberry Pi and BeagleBone)."

So assume it works fine with the Pi.

I would be loath to get anything that relies on Android or any phone/tablet.

But a PicoScope would be great with my SurfacePro 4.

[Heater]

On the other hand...

My Rigol DS1054Z is a wonderful thing. 4 channels, 50MHz band width and 1G samples per second plus lots of nice features and a great user interface (I love real knobs) only 400 Euro.

Especially as this thread spurred me on to hack the thing to unlock 100MHz bandwidth and a bunch of software options. Thus turning it into a DS1104Z which is the 700 and something Euro model

[achrn]

My Rigol DS1054Z is a wonderful thing. 4 channels, 50MHz band width and 1G samples per second plus lots of nice features and a great user interface (I love real knobs) only 400 Euro.

Yes, but that's more than four times the price.

Do people on car discussion groups who say 'I was thinking about a Vauxhall Astra at £20k' get told they should buy a Mercedes S-class AMG V8 at £90k?

http://www.vauxhall.co.uk/vehicles/vaux ... rator.html

https://www.mercedes-benz.co.uk/passeng ... esType=GB1

I don't think nScope is especially overpriced, though there are similar offerings that may be better at similar prices - it's not a clearly brilliant deal. If you have a hard 100 quid budget, then a usb-based scope such as this (or a picoscope, or others), or a second-hand 'real' scope off ebay is probably what you're stuck with. If I didn't have teh equipment already to estabnlish that a pot-luck scope of ebay (normally sold by someone who doesn't know if it's full working or not, let alone calibrated), I'd go for the usb one.

Actually, I'm lucky - my retired electronic lab technician father-in-law gave me a 'real' 'proper' analogue scope rescued from a workplace upgrade. It was faulty, but that turned out to be just a blown bridge rectifier in the power supply.

I agree that if you've got four times as much money to spend you can do better - but that applies to pretty much everything, from sandwiches for lunch to airliners for a new global business.

[bensimmo]

On the other hand...

My Rigol DS1054Z is a wonderful thing. 4 channels, 50MHz band width and 1G samples per second plus lots of nice features and a great user interface (I love real knobs) only 400 Euro.

Especially as this thread spurred me on to hack the thing to unlock 100MHz bandwidth and a bunch of software options. Thus turning it into a DS1104Z which is the 700 and something Euro model

And when does the Zero can hacked into it?


A quick read and the RPI Picoscope seems more hassle than it's worth, it's not up to running thier software in the GUI as far as I can see.

[Heater]

achrn,

I do appreciate your car analogy. Like cars there is a huge range in capability and price of a new scope.

However I think it's more like finding someone asking what is the best new car to buy. So you suggest one of the cheapest options that you think is the best value for money and worth their looking at. (In the Rigol case it's like suggesting a 100 horse power car that can be tweaked to 200 horse power for free!) Then you find they only have a budget for 25% of that.

What to do? Tell them to save up for a while? Tell them to get a secondhand clunker? Or by a moped?

By analogy the nScope is the moped.

As it stands we know something about what SetDog wants to do but have no idea of the budget he can allocate towards it.

I would not consider any USB scope apart from the PicoScope. It has a fine reputation and good specs.

[Heater]

bensimmo,

Well spotted. I was reading SDK as the PicoScope software for ARM. I is of course only an API library. The GUI stuff is not working on ARM and it looks like they have given up work on it. See here: https://www.picotech.com/support/topic14421.html#p87281

That makes it a project to get a Raspi PicoScope working. It would be fantastic, one could use accelerated OpenGL straight into the frame buffer. No X Windows required. However who would want to do a lot of work on that when the API libraries are not open source?

That rather takes the shine off the PicoScope but I'm still tempted to get one.

And when does the Zero can hacked into it?

If PicoScope could squeeze a Raspi Compute Module in there and build a GUI for it as desribed above, and keep the prices the same, they would have a fantastic product.