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Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 12:32 pm
by Menace
Why would anyone think that "two Raspberry Pis" is inelegant???
While English is not my first language, I really don't see any problem with the "Pis" plural...

I admit that "two Raspberry PI" is also a good way of saying it, but I much prefer the "Pis" plural.

And if anyone would mistake it as "Piss", they really need to get there eyes checked ;).

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:22 pm
by mole125
It's inelegant because in the standard rules of English pronunciation when reading "Pis" out of context there are no rules or precedents to persuade that it should be pronounced like "Pies", instead it would almost certainly be pronounced like "Piss".

The issue is Pi is a greek letter so should probably follow the greek rules of pluralization, except greek words don't end in i so there aren't any rules, in fact generally English words don't end in I either (and the ones that do are normally plurals with a Latin basis anyway).

You could try putting an apostrophe in to make the pronunciation clear (Pi's) however there isn't really a missing letter and isn't a possessive so then it looks like a misused apostrophe. Historically it was the solution used to pluralise foreign words ending with a vowel and may still be the 'correct' form in this scenario when not including it messes up the pronounciation however it is a bit of a nasty hack and looks and feels wrong and inelegant.

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:44 pm
by Burngate
mole125 wrote:... The issue is Pi is a greek letter ...
So are there any Greek speakers on this forum?

In English I think we would write "Two A's and a G" (I'm thinking here of for example in genetics)
But there, we use the symbol, A, rather than spell it, "ay", which doesn't help!

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 4:48 pm
by techpaul
twocvbloke wrote:Speaking of multiple Pis, would a network of several be a RaspberryBush? :lol:
<pedant mode>
Raspberries grow on canes not bushes
</pedant mode>

Any way multiple Pi ownership until recently was "rocking horse excretia"

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:13 pm
by speculatrix
Okay, speaking as an editor and ex-sub (and having checked with my sub-editor and classics grad wife)...

Pi is the English transliteration for the Greek letter 'P'. In English, the plural of P would be Ps.

Of course, if you were to decide that Pi is somehow an adjective - that the machine is a Raspberry having the quality of Pi, then you could use 'Raspberries Pi'. But I don't see that flying, somehow... ;)

'Pii' is entirely wrong, because it's an English word, transliterated from Greek, not Latin. (And while I'm at it, let me get on my hobbyhorse for a second and mention how the plural of 'virus' is NOT 'virii'. Really annoys me when I see that. Phew. Glad I got that off my chest.)

So I reckon it has to be 'Raspberry Pis', sadly.

Wiktionary agrees: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pi#English

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:12 pm
by lewmur
notthetup wrote:This has been bothering me for a while and as geeks we should figure this out once and for all.

1 Raspberry Pi - 2 Raspberry Pis?

Njoy,

-notthetup
There is no plural. We were only allowed to buy one!!! :lol:

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:51 pm
by RaTTuS
lewmur wrote:
notthetup wrote:This has been bothering me for a while and as geeks we should figure this out once and for all.

1 Raspberry Pi - 2 Raspberry Pis?

Njoy,

-notthetup
There is no plural. We were only allowed to buy one!!! :lol:
speak for yourself ....
I have 3
2 farnell and 1 RS

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:42 pm
by lewmur
RaTTuS wrote:
lewmur wrote:
notthetup wrote:This has been bothering me for a while and as geeks we should figure this out once and for all.

1 Raspberry Pi - 2 Raspberry Pis?

Njoy,

-notthetup
There is no plural. We were only allowed to buy one!!! :lol:
speak for yourself ....
I have 3
2 farnell and 1 RS
I refuse to let reality spoil a good joke. :oops:

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:58 pm
by malakai
It is a good joke but like Lego they build and sell a Lego building block the plural of having more than one block is Lego Building Blocks or Bricks not Legos which is neither a word nor correct.

Raspberry Pi is the organization behind low cost computing. So you technically have a lot of Raspberry Pi boards or computers.

This is assuming you take the whole thread with any seriousness. I prefer Pies because it sounds delicious. You can label them food for the brain.

Buy a couple Raspberry Pi Computers "Food for the Brain"™®© :D

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:06 pm
by Jim Manley
speculatrix wrote:'Pii' is entirely wrong, because it's an English word, transliterated from Greek, not Latin ... So I reckon it has to be 'Raspberry Pis', sadly.
Here you are quite seriously mistaken and have completely missed the purpose of evolution in language, of which the English language is the prime example, particularly the U.S. dialects. BTW, U.S. English speakers/writers statistically use English correctly more often than our cousins on the Isles, even using your misguided rules (the culprit is well known to be the vestiges of the class system that kept people stratified for far too long, and we're far from perfect about that here, just a bit less imperfect). As even the British version of English is a mongrel descended from many ancestors across various land masses, saying things such as " ... because it's an English word, transliterated from Greek, not Latin ... " demonstrates precisely how little is understood about actual language usage and the benefits of crossing syntactic divides. "Language is not static in civilizations that aren't headed for oblivion" - repeat that in a while loop until it becomes second nature - it won't hurt that much once you become accustomed to the idea.

According to your theory (and that's being generous - I'll look up a word with a meaning even more distant from "fact" later), we should all be speaking and writing using only the most ancient utterances and symbols - Neanderthal grunts and cave paintings, perhaps? Oh, but that would break the "iron-clad" rules used by predecessors to Homo Sapiens, since current paleontological, anatomic, and genetic research suggests that homonid language may have first appeared as early as several million years ago. There is now mounting evidence that even animal communications are far more advanced than ever suspected and feature linguistic evolution over time. For example, adolescent male whales forced out of pods of their birth introduce variations into songs in pods they join later, and the variants have been correlated to where the adolescents know food was located.

Rules are fine to maintain consistency for things that don't need to change, but when one is dealing with dynamics (welcome to the Real World) and particularly rapid-pace technology development, the sky is the limit (or, as we now know better, ~13.7 billion light-years to the edge of the detectable universe that resulted from the Big Bang - and stand by for the possibility of infinite multiverses). It's the manglings of existing language that introduce important (and dare I say interesting, if not fascinating) expansions in our ability to communicate efficiently. German was once considered the only language to study by up-and-coming scientists and engineers, however, one glance at actual words like Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsmütze (Danube steamboat shipping company Captain's hat) quickly disabuses anyone who has serious work to be done from delving any farther in that linguistic direction.

Just think for a moment about the intellectual melting pots that are places such as Silicon Valley and CERN - there are very good reasons such places continue to outpace anywhere else in the world in terms of innovation and expansion of knowledge, and that's by no means limited to their technical heritages (speaking of linguistic evolution, that "Silicon" moniker is long overdue for replacement), as biotechnology, energy, and even social media (with a language virtually all their own having evolved among the younger practitioners, it seems) are morphing before our very eyes.

When people from all over the planet converge not just in laboratories and offices, but in food establishments and homes, at sporting and entertainment events, and all of the other myriad potential opportunities for cross-pollination, amazing new ideas and implementations result. Yes, some of the social phenomena are more than regrettable in terms of "fashion" and "entertainment", but you can't make crepes without messy egg shells being involved. There are no rules for the advancement of civilization - if there were, we would have already colonized solar systems on the other side of the Milky Way galaxy, if not other galaxies, by now (and that's probably a good thing for the Class M planets Out There ;) ). That "no rules" rule also applies to language - that which will not bend will inevitably break - how are those Latin and ancient Greek speaking civilizations doing these days?

So, I not only stand by the mongrel Pii, I proudly promote its cross-bred Greek and Latin roots as a new prospective entrant in the Merriam-Webster's Unabridged and Oxford English Dictionaries. Let's just see whether Pii can beat the Pis out of your equally-insisted-upon term! :D

[ No linguists, editors, sub-editors, classicists, English people, Germans, mods or any other breed of intellectual were meant to be harmed in the making of this post - any perceptions to the contrary can only be ascribed to senseless paranoia and personal inadequacies that modern pharmacology can now address ;) ]

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 8:51 pm
by alexeames
Jim Manley wrote:Let's just see whether Pii can beat the Pis out of your equally-insisted-upon term! :D
Piing myself laughing at that one Jim. :lol:

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:49 pm
by pygmy_giant
There is one Pi-borg - we are all assimilated.

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:31 am
by Burngate
Trouble with Jim's thesis - there aint no rules - is that its just plain rong.
English is wot the English reed & rite. Everyone North or West of the boarder aint Inglish, so their Rong. That includes Mericans

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:03 am
by Robert_M
mole125 wrote:It's inelegant because in the standard rules of English pronunciation when reading "Pis" out of context there are no rules or precedents to persuade that it should be pronounced like "Pies", instead it would almost certainly be pronounced like "Piss". ...

...which is why we also have Led Zeppelin instead of Lead Zeppelin; to imply which pronunciation is correct.

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 1:39 pm
by Menace
Trouble with Jim's thesis - there aint no rules - is that its just plain rong.
English is wot the English reed & rite. Everyone North or West of the boarder aint Inglish, so their Rong. That includes Mericans
Haha Burngate, funny stuff...

But seriously I totally agree with your statement...

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:29 pm
by Burngate
Glad you liked it! 8-)

But (slightly) more seriously, it really depends on how one defines the language.

Apparently around the world there are a lot of people speaking a pidgin that some call English. Although a pure-bred Englishman wouldn't understand a word of it, as a means of communication, it works. The same goes for textese and such-like.

However, if you want to reach a wider audience, some set of rules that every-one recognises is usefull. And since a lot of communication is non-verbal, sticking to a smaller subset of those rules can imply authority, or humour, or reckless imprecision. Even using a grocer's apostrophe can imply that you haven't bothered to learn the language, and don't care what the reader thinks.

And in the case of more technical language, using words incorrectly doesn't inspire confidence, even though the reader (thinks he) knows what you mean.

As for Led Zeppelin, since semiconductor light-emitting diodes had only just been invented when they started, perhaps they were trying to imply a fusion of the ultra-modern with the ancient.

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:02 pm
by pygmy_giant
The cover of their first album depicted the Hindenburg disaster - I think they were just intentionally mispelling 'Lead' as in 'heavy and cant fly'. Like Korn (as in 'corn dolly').

When I have my mid-life crisis I'm going to start mis-spelling my own name by substituting vowels for y's and such like to show that I'm hip and down with the kids and not getting old and fusty - so you'll have to call me pygmy_gynt, but I'm not quite that old yet.

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:19 pm
by toxibunny
topic title should have a question mark.

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:30 pm
by hippy
toxibunny wrote:topic title should have a question mark.
Unless it is thought that "What" is the plural of Raspberry Pi :o

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 8:23 pm
by JonB
You know what? I don't care. I have one, it's ace, end of.


(Sorry Jim, I gave up after the first paragraph. Looks very erudite, but life's way too short!)

:D

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:07 am
by Burngate
JonB wrote:... Looks very erudite, but life's way too short!
All it is is a way of avoiding doing something useful ... there must be a word for that ...

So we could extend the conversation ... what's the plural of Raspberry Pi in French? Spanish? Manderin? Welsh? Occitan?

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 6:26 pm
by JonB
Burngate wrote:
JonB wrote:... Looks very erudite, but life's way too short!
All it is is a way of avoiding doing something useful ... there must be a word for that ...
Procrastination.. LOL
So we could extend the conversation ... what's the plural of Raspberry Pi in French? Spanish? Manderin? Welsh? Occitan?
"Les Pis du Framboise", peut-etre..?

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:06 pm
by saif
Ok Ok Guys, the answer is simple there are three answers

1) Pi is a Greek letter. The plural for Greek words ending in i is very well documented http://mylanguages.org/greek_plural.php (e.g. lion=liontari - λιοντάρι becomes lions=liontaria - λιοντάρια) and so...
1 Raspberry Pi becomes 2 Raspberry Pia

2) You have the nouns mixed up...so like Maids a-milking or Lords a-leaping...
1 Raspberry Pi becomes 2 Raspberries Pi

3) Liz is the wife of the inventor and has final rights over nomenclatures so...
1 Raspberry Pi becomes 2 Raspberry Pis

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:27 am
by bteeter
I just checked in my shop and the Raspberry Pi said that the plural is Raspberry Pies. And I had a bite.

Thank You Very Much.

Bob

Re: What's the plural of Raspberry Pi.

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:12 pm
by mikerr
2 Pi are called ... a Revolution !

(think radians)