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johnb_summers
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amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:22 am

I have just read an article in the daily mail http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/artic ... brain.html

So I plugged in a RGB LED into GPIO22, GPIO23 and GPIO24, set the pins up as PWM, all with 50% duty cycle, the red frequency 35Hz, the Green frequency 40Hz and the blue frequency 45Hz, I will switch it on for an hour a day and start doing memory test.

when I saw the article I thought, wow this is something the raspberry pi could do, plus many of us here are old, many like me past 60, we are slowly losing our memory's, well I am, I think we can help this research by using ourselves as test subjects, ok all they have done is experiments on mice but we can do these experiments on ourselves and see if it improves our memory, if this works we could see millions of old people sitting in front of a pi, lol, ok maybe not but the researchers might be interested in us doing this, a lot of old men with time, raspberry pis and a history of research use this forum so I think our input might be of use.

we could even experiment further by writing programs that use different combinations of duty cycle and frequency, but I would love to stop walking into a room and then wonder why I am in there and why did I go in there, sure many of you are doing the same.
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DougieLawson
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:48 am

Anyone who believes anything they read in the Daily Fail, needs to seek professional medical attention. (I'm unable to read that article as I've deliberately blocked all parts of the DailyFail.co.uk website on my home network.

I hope you've included current limiting resistors between your RPi and your RGB LED. So your quack medicine experiments don't blow up your RPi and let the magic smoke out.
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johnb_summers
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:26 pm

DougieLawson wrote:Anyone who believes anything they read in the Daily Fail, needs to seek professional medical attention. (I'm unable to read that article as I've deliberately blocked all parts of the DailyFail.co.uk website on my home network.

I hope you've included current limiting resistors between your RPi and your RGB LED. So your quack medicine experiments don't blow up your RPi and let the magic smoke out.
LOL, pink ponies and unicorns a? here is the quote that got me doing this
Lead scientist Professor Li-Huei Tsai, director of the Picower Institute for Learning and Memory at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), said: 'It's a big 'if', because so many things have been shown to work in mice, only to fail in humans
and yes of course I have resistors, had it running for a day and done 1 hour. can go to MIT's website and get the info.
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:44 pm

Don't you just love how newspaper journalists who are 100% clueless read a scientific paper and add their own interpretation of the results. Then the Daily Fail publishes it as the next thing that will affect your house price without giving a reference to the journal where the peer-reviewed (or not in Dr. Andrew Wakefield's case) paper has been published.
http://news.mit.edu/2016/visual-stimulation-treatment-alzheimer-1207 wrote:Further research will be needed to determine if a similar approach could help Alzheimer’s patients, says Li-Huei Tsai, the Picower Professor of Neuroscience, director of MIT’s Picower Institute for Learning and Memory, and senior author of the study, which appears in the Dec. 7 online edition of Nature.
http://nature.com/articles/doi:10.1038/nature20587 (the article is behind a paywall)
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:04 pm

DougieLawson wrote:Don't you just love how newspaper journalists who are 100% clueless read a scientific paper and add their own interpretation of the results. Then the Daily Fail publishes it as the next thing that will affect your house price without giving a reference to the journal where the peer-reviewed (or not in Dr. Andrew Wakefield's case) paper has been published.
http://news.mit.edu/2016/visual-stimulation-treatment-alzheimer-1207 wrote:Further research will be needed to determine if a similar approach could help Alzheimer’s patients, says Li-Huei Tsai, the Picower Professor of Neuroscience, director of MIT’s Picower Institute for Learning and Memory, and senior author of the study, which appears in the Dec. 7 online edition of Nature.
http://nature.com/articles/doi:10.1038/nature20587 (the article is behind a paywall)
Yes exactly and why I think we can help, we are an army that have the equipment that can reproduce this, many of us are old and on the verge of these diseases, I just know we can help, it is clear they have the beginnings of an idea that could be a break through and they need people like us.
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:08 pm

Why not write to the professor at MIT and ask to join her research. I'm not convinced on flickering lights. Folks have been sitting in rooms with a flickering light box since the Baird and Marconi experiments at Alexandra Palace in the late 1940's and they're still getting Alzheimers.
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johnb_summers
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:12 pm

DougieLawson wrote:Why not write to the professor at MIT and ask to join her research. I'm not convinced on flickering lights. Folks have been sitting in rooms with a flickering light box since the Baird and Marconi experiments at Alexandra Palace in the late 1940's and they're still getting Alzheimers.
If it improves my memory then I will, I did think that too but then the research seemed to indicate certain frequencies around the 40hz region and the triggering of cells, so my experiments are between 35hz and 45hz
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:49 pm

Is the Daily Fail the kind of rag that publishes stories like 'Women Gives Birth to Three Headed Baby'?
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:55 pm

Jednorozec wrote:Is the Daily Fail the kind of rag that publishes stories like 'Women Gives Birth to Three Headed Baby'?
It's not quite like the Daily Sport or other junk papers like that.

It's a paper owned by Lord Rothermere that actively supported Adolf Hitler in the1930s. It's always publishing stories about "Coffee Gives You Cancer" one week then "Coffee Cures Cancer" the next week. It's a nasty little rag edited by Paul Dacre and not worth the paper it's printed on. It's the lower middle class folks who vote Tory and voted for Brexit (slightly right of centre) who worship its content.

I wouldn't even tear it into shreds to use it instead of Charmin in the outside karzi.
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johnb_summers
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:24 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Jednorozec wrote:Is the Daily Fail the kind of rag that publishes stories like 'Women Gives Birth to Three Headed Baby'?
It's not quite like the Daily Sport or other junk papers like that.

It's a paper owned by Lord Rothermere that actively supported Adolf Hitler in the1930s. It's always publishing stories about "Coffee Gives You Cancer" one week then "Coffee Cures Cancer" the next week. It's a nasty little rag edited by Paul Dacre and not worth the paper it's printed on. It's the lower middle class folks who vote Tory and voted for Brexit (slightly right of centre) who worship its content.

I wouldn't even tear it into shreds to use it instead of Charmin in the outside karzi.
Every newspapers is a propaganda rag, but they do fill the rest of the paper with little stories from other areas where they have no axe to grind, and as you found this is genuine research and nothing to do with what politics they are, I read all from the daily telegraph to the daily mirror and from the Washington post to info wars and veterans today and every one of them is a propaganda rag.
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:53 pm

Well done :) please keep us update, 40hz is the frecuency (is in the ¡nfo) in about 10 days you should get some results.
good luck.

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johnb_summers
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:58 pm

ASCCII wrote:Well done :) please keep us update, 40hz is the frecuency (is in the ¡nfo) in about 10 days you should get some results.
good luck.
Welcome to the forum, I see it is your first post, so you registered to make this comment, ty, I have devised a memory test that I will display on a public website so that all can see my results and test their own memory's, then I shall do the 10 days of lights to see if there is any progress, the memory test will be simple, starting with one and ending with 10, a random letter or number will be shown for 5 seconds and you just have to remember the letters and order they come in, for 1 to 5 I should find easy and get right but from 5 to 10 I should get wrong and only right if my memory improves, unless any one can suggest a better memory test I will build this one now, like I said it will be public so you can all put it to the test, you will get a score from 0 to 100, a database will hold all past results, they raspberry pi is ideal for this to hold the memory test website and all the results in its database as well as control the flickering lights using pulse width modulation.
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Fri Dec 09, 2016 6:18 pm

DougieLawson wrote:... It's the lower middle class folks who vote Tory and voted for Brexit (slightly right of centre) who worship its content.
Sounds like fighting talk, but I'll pass on that if you don't mind. Choose a pub round Fleet or Farnborough, and we can discuss it over a pint.

For a selection of articles to give a slightly more rounded view of Alzheimer's, https://www.newscientist.com/article-topic/dementia/

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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:16 pm

I think that this experiment was done on genetically engineered mice. Unless you are a genetically engineer mouse I would not bother.

The genetic modification was specific to studying amyloid plaques.

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johnb_summers
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:01 pm

Blessed are those that bother
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:19 pm

No, those that deserve some sort of "blessing" are those that do real science rather than ape it in cargo cult fashion.

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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:16 pm

gregeric wrote:No, those that deserve some sort of "blessing" are those that do real science rather than ape it in cargo cult fashion.
Dont think hostility is called for, what is your axe your grinding?
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:12 am

I have written a simple memory test, it is on http://81.142.92.203/memorytest/ I will do the test a few times until I can improve my score no more, then I will try the flickering LEDS, then after 10 days I will do the tests again, also I may experiment with different frequencies, wont hurt to try. the name you have to add to start the test can be any name, just needed for the database to allocate it space, using the same name will over write what was stored the last time, I will use my name and a number so you can see what my results are in the results page, the results page is empty at mo as I just finished the program, I will do the first test in a few hours after I have had a sleep.

PS the test is running on a raspberry pi 2 server, the same pi also has the flickering LEDs
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:29 am

johnb_summers wrote:I have written a simple memory test, it is on http://81.142.92.203/memorytest/ ...
Went there ...
MemoryTest.png
MemoryTest.png (12 KiB) Viewed 3707 times
Yes, I can remember my name ... what now?

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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:17 am

Burngate wrote:
johnb_summers wrote:I have written a simple memory test, it is on http://81.142.92.203/memorytest/ ...
Went there ...
MemoryTest.png
Yes, I can remember my name ... what now?
Please don't use your name, any name will do, like test1, it is a name for the database to keep the results under, that will appear in the results page. once a name is entered so the first letter appears and then you are asked to input the letters you saw, at first its just one, then two then three and so on.

if you use your name I will erase it, this is a test for me to test the flickering lights, I am not interested on how clever you are, so use a real name to show off and I will just delete it., only my real name will be on the results page, I have given you the chance to test the test not advertise how clever you are, you would only cheat and write the letters down.


OOPS had a bug so fixed it. doing test now, but deleting them until I get a high enough score, not reaching 20 at mo, well I didn't finish until 6:30am and have only had 4 hours sleep. also edited it to tell people not to use a real name
Last edited by johnb_summers on Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:02 pm

Burngate wrote: Yes, I can remember my name ... what now?
Can you remember your address and phone number?
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Sat Dec 10, 2016 12:29 pm

ok, fixed the bugs, the best score I can get is 35, I can only remember the first 4 letters at best, 35 is a good control score I feel, will do it a few more times, this I feel is really going to test this theory I think, I found it very hard and frustrating which is exactly how I feel when I walk into a room and cant remember why I went in there., the leds are set up and on the same pi, you can see them on http://81.142.92.203/ on the right hand side, you can see if they are on and at what frequency and duty cycle, like 40/50 means 40hz 50% duty cycle, the red is setup as 39/66 when on, the green is 40/50 and blue 41/33, that's 41hz at 33% duty cycle, did it like this so that the lights turn on at different times, the article said when they trigger together, so the first test will be when they don't trigger together, again creating a control. I will trigger them together in a later test.
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:17 am

Just as a note, the effect on light on the brain is not unheard of.

For example, it's well known that flashing lights can cause seizures in people with epilepsy. The effect of light on brain activity - particularly circadian rhythms - is an established field.

The research is very exciting, and I think we can be optimistic about what results it may produce. There's a lot we don't know about the brain and Alzheimer's.

As for you Mr. - or perhaps Dr. - Summers, I get where you're coming from. Setting up a 40Hz signal is very little effort and every little bit helps in terms of slowing or reducing the effects of dementia. I heard about the experiment on an NPR segment and was thinking about setting up a 40Hz source too.

However, the idea I came to was that it would be more practical to change the monitor refresh rates to 40Hz, or perhaps the lightbulbs if possible. It also made me wonder about the effect of 60Hz on our brains, if there is any. I think simply changing monitor refresh rates to 40Hz would be a good start though particularly as many of us spend a good deal of time taking in light from our computer monitors.

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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:08 pm

levelcrow wrote: I think simply changing monitor refresh rates to 40Hz would be a good start though particularly as many of us spend a good deal of time taking in light from our computer monitors.
The trend has been to increase the frequency (it used to be locked to mains frequency, but this is no longer the case) to reduce eye-strain caused by flicker -- not usually noticeable at 50Hz or above, but still has an effect. Reducing the refresh to 40Hz is going to be wrong in that respect.
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Re: amyloid plaque reducer

Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:23 pm

First, I though this was about dental health.
Next up: Sounds like a fast track to an epileptic seizure. Lights strobing at frequencies that differ by 5Hz will produce a 5Hz strobe. With 35Hz, 40Hz and 45 Hz all in there you are going to get all sorts of frequencies right in the danger zone. it would be important to stress that this should not be the only source of light.
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