What Linux Distro having X and a decent Desktop Enviroment would be best suited to the RPi B (original made in china version, 512MB)?
Preferably a distro that has a decent GL ES interface and has web browser supporting HW acceleration. Also preferably something a lot faster than the current Raspbian (that seems to be focused on the newer models at the expense of speed on the older)/
Thank you for any responce, be it helpful, constructive, or destructive. Anything would help at this point.
I wish to dedicate my RPi 3B to RISC OS testing, my RPi 2B to low end stuff (to preserve the operation of the first SoC that RPF discontinued), and that leaves the Raspberry Model B (I will eventually get an RPi B+, an RPi 2B+, and an RPi Zero as money allows).
Besides I like the ability to occasionally switch to RISC OS running on the same HW to play with some of the Iyonix compatible software that does not run on the ARMv7/8 systems (as the ARMv6 helps with this).
Linux Distro Question.
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Re: Linux Distro Question.
I always use piCore for low end and embedded.
http://www.tinycorelinux.net/ports.html
Based on Tinycore which was evolved from Damn Small Linux?
http://www.tinycorelinux.net/
There is a light X win for it, but I don't use it much, mostly CLI.
Good luck for OpenGL, accelerated HW stuff.
Not sure about a browser, good browsers tend to be big.
Hoping Kernel 4.8 might help with this.
Once a good browser and OpenGL runs on piCore I may end up ditching Raspbian.
Some HW stuff like the Pi camera is not too hard to get working.
There is very active development for piCore, most times the kernel is ahead of Raspbian.
You do need to know what you are doing, not a beginners OS, but the forum is very helpful if you get stuck, but read the Core book first.
Never tried it on a Pi3, it should really smoke.
There is not a lot apps for it, choices are limited to sometimes one.
Most apps can be recompiled for it, if it is useful it usually get added to the repo.
Uses a compressed file structure that is loaded into ram on boot.
Very fast and crash proof.
Not a kitchensink OS, more a handbasin and byo soap
It comes with micropython built in, just need to install busyboxhttpd server.
Really, really great for IoT out of the box.
For dedicated, one off use boxes, it is hard to beat.
Not so much a general purpose do everything OS, you end up installing lots of extra stuff. Very easy to backup the whole OS.
If I knew how to compile for Linux, this is the OS I would port to.
No code bloat, just fast, small and stable.
I routinely pull power on the OS, alway reboots fine.
Latest Raspbian is not playing nice with my new 16GB SDcards.
I have run piCore from 128MB SDcards with 60MB free
Cannot find smaller cards
Cards that stop working on Raspbian get recycled into piCore boxes.
Because it is so limited and there is not a lot of apps/libraries that can be installed I have had to learn things the hard way like basic LInux stuff Grep, Shell, Awk, Sed. For IoT this turned out to be useful.
Shell script running on 1GHz Cpu's is fast, sometimes need to throw in a bit of micropython.
http://www.tinycorelinux.net/ports.html
Based on Tinycore which was evolved from Damn Small Linux?
http://www.tinycorelinux.net/
There is a light X win for it, but I don't use it much, mostly CLI.
Good luck for OpenGL, accelerated HW stuff.
Not sure about a browser, good browsers tend to be big.
Hoping Kernel 4.8 might help with this.
Once a good browser and OpenGL runs on piCore I may end up ditching Raspbian.
Some HW stuff like the Pi camera is not too hard to get working.
There is very active development for piCore, most times the kernel is ahead of Raspbian.
You do need to know what you are doing, not a beginners OS, but the forum is very helpful if you get stuck, but read the Core book first.
Never tried it on a Pi3, it should really smoke.
There is not a lot apps for it, choices are limited to sometimes one.
Most apps can be recompiled for it, if it is useful it usually get added to the repo.
Uses a compressed file structure that is loaded into ram on boot.
Very fast and crash proof.
Not a kitchensink OS, more a handbasin and byo soap
It comes with micropython built in, just need to install busyboxhttpd server.
Really, really great for IoT out of the box.
For dedicated, one off use boxes, it is hard to beat.
Not so much a general purpose do everything OS, you end up installing lots of extra stuff. Very easy to backup the whole OS.
If I knew how to compile for Linux, this is the OS I would port to.
No code bloat, just fast, small and stable.
I routinely pull power on the OS, alway reboots fine.
Latest Raspbian is not playing nice with my new 16GB SDcards.
I have run piCore from 128MB SDcards with 60MB free
Cannot find smaller cards
Cards that stop working on Raspbian get recycled into piCore boxes.
Because it is so limited and there is not a lot of apps/libraries that can be installed I have had to learn things the hard way like basic LInux stuff Grep, Shell, Awk, Sed. For IoT this turned out to be useful.
Shell script running on 1GHz Cpu's is fast, sometimes need to throw in a bit of micropython.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Re: Linux Distro Question.
Thank you for that. I will give TinyCore a try. It may be exactly what I need for the original RPi B. I have no problem having to recompile software for a Linux that does not have many packages. I even have a 64MB SD card to try it with 
. It is to bad that the ARMv6 ports of Puppy are no more, I used one of them on the RPi B way back when they were still being released as the betas.
Can no longer try on my RPi 2B, the SD Card socket on my RPi 2B went out this evening.
Any other possible Linux distros to try?
. It is to bad that the ARMv6 ports of Puppy are no more, I used one of them on the RPi B way back when they were still being released as the betas.Can no longer try on my RPi 2B, the SD Card socket on my RPi 2B went out this evening
.Any other possible Linux distros to try?
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
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Re: Linux Distro Question.
For older Pi computers with only 256MB or 512MB of RAM, putting the root filesystem in a ramdisk seems like a step in the wrong direction. Upon reading the documentation there also appears to be a mounted mode that doesn't use so much RAM. Have you tried that?Gavinmc42 wrote:Uses a compressed file structure that is loaded into ram on boot.
Raspbian-lite seems like the obvious choice with something like fvwm added instead of a full install of LXDE. Web browsers are a difficulty. There's dillo which doesn't work well enough to browse even the Raspberry Pi website. Still, think of all the time you will save when programming without searching stack overflow all the time.
Re: Linux Distro Question.
I just use the normal piCore install, works fine.
Raspbian Lite is much bigger than piCore.
I have to use it for pikrellcam based security cameras, about 1.3GB installed.
Even the X86 Tinycore is small, 16MB with a X windowing sys.
http://www.tinycorelinux.net/downloads.html
But it depends what is installed, add Java and you add 600MB.
Add Lua and you add 150KB, but it cannot do what JavaFX does, yet.
piCore even though it runs from ram does not take much room, leaving lots left even in 256MB Pi's. About the only other way to get close to the same size is Buildroot, roll your own kernel etc.
https://buildroot.org/
Buildroot is quite fun, I learned it over a weekend, made a kernel with the same stuff as I had got used to with piCore.
I use MotionEyeOS, which is buildroot based for my Sony PS2 Eyecam based security cams, it runs for years without issues.
Raspbian is great for a normal everyday Desktop OS and keeps getting better, but it's not so good for an embedded OS.
I like the look of Pixel and the software install feature helps to add stuff with button clicks.
Latest Arduino IDE 1.6.12 works fine and now means the Pi3 can be a semi-serious development tools for embedded micros, like Adafruit's new Feather range.
I have not used Arch OS because I had no Internet connectivity for a few years. piCore tcz addons can be small and sometimes be manually installed.
Which is the best OS? Depends on the user and what you want to do with it.
Don't know much Linux or don't care to learn - Raspbian.
Want the smallest Linux OS and not scared of figuring things out - piCore.
Want the absolutely smallest embedded app on a Pi - baremetal it with Ultibo.
Why these three? They are well supported and have great user forums.
If there is something newer and better let me know.
Raspbian Lite is much bigger than piCore.
I have to use it for pikrellcam based security cameras, about 1.3GB installed.
Even the X86 Tinycore is small, 16MB with a X windowing sys.
http://www.tinycorelinux.net/downloads.html
But it depends what is installed, add Java and you add 600MB.
Add Lua and you add 150KB, but it cannot do what JavaFX does, yet.
piCore even though it runs from ram does not take much room, leaving lots left even in 256MB Pi's. About the only other way to get close to the same size is Buildroot, roll your own kernel etc.
https://buildroot.org/
Buildroot is quite fun, I learned it over a weekend, made a kernel with the same stuff as I had got used to with piCore.
I use MotionEyeOS, which is buildroot based for my Sony PS2 Eyecam based security cams, it runs for years without issues.
Raspbian is great for a normal everyday Desktop OS and keeps getting better, but it's not so good for an embedded OS.
I like the look of Pixel and the software install feature helps to add stuff with button clicks.
Latest Arduino IDE 1.6.12 works fine and now means the Pi3 can be a semi-serious development tools for embedded micros, like Adafruit's new Feather range.
I have not used Arch OS because I had no Internet connectivity for a few years. piCore tcz addons can be small and sometimes be manually installed.
Which is the best OS? Depends on the user and what you want to do with it.
Don't know much Linux or don't care to learn - Raspbian.
Want the smallest Linux OS and not scared of figuring things out - piCore.
Want the absolutely smallest embedded app on a Pi - baremetal it with Ultibo.
Why these three? They are well supported and have great user forums.
If there is something newer and better let me know.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Re: Linux Distro Question.
Want a full featured Linux that does not take much RAM, or CPU and have an RPi 2 or 3, get the FatDog Puppy Linux.
Still would like a recent Puppy for the RPi B/A/Zero/A+/B+.
Still would like a recent Puppy for the RPi B/A/Zero/A+/B+.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
Re: Linux Distro Question.
My last responce got me looking, and it looks like it is possible to run Puppy Zap6 on the RPi 2 at least. That is great news as it is a full install Puppy Linux (I do not like the frugal installs), and means we have a full featured Linux that does not waste as much space, RAM, or CPU time as the Raspbian Distros.
So it may even be possible to get it running on the RPi 3.
For those that do not know Puppy is a full featured Desktop Linux distrobution that is designed to run with a minimal of RAM and CPU usage (it does not have a lot of the extra unneeded stuff running in the background), uses the ROX File manager, and pinboard configured for more traditional Linux/Win style feel (easy to reconfigure to have more of a RISC OS feel, which is the reason for ROX).
Further packages for Puppy do not have any of the unneeded extra stuff, stuff that is largely redundant, making the packages much much smaller, and it is easy to use .dep packages on Puppy if you want (I hope this works as well on the ARM version of Puppy).
So it apears that I have a better option for Linux, one that I do use on a PowerPC Macintosh Performa 6400 as well as on a 133MHz AMD 586 PC with 128MB of RAM (the one PC I keep around for when needed).
So it may even be possible to get it running on the RPi 3.
For those that do not know Puppy is a full featured Desktop Linux distrobution that is designed to run with a minimal of RAM and CPU usage (it does not have a lot of the extra unneeded stuff running in the background), uses the ROX File manager, and pinboard configured for more traditional Linux/Win style feel (easy to reconfigure to have more of a RISC OS feel, which is the reason for ROX).
Further packages for Puppy do not have any of the unneeded extra stuff, stuff that is largely redundant, making the packages much much smaller, and it is easy to use .dep packages on Puppy if you want (I hope this works as well on the ARM version of Puppy).
So it apears that I have a better option for Linux, one that I do use on a PowerPC Macintosh Performa 6400 as well as on a 133MHz AMD 586 PC with 128MB of RAM (the one PC I keep around for when needed).
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
Re: Linux Distro Question.
Puppy 
is that still current?
Slitaz was another that looked promising but it was just too hard to install.
http://arm.slitaz.org/rpi/
The new Pi Ubuntu spins are nice.
Lubuntu and Xubuntu are not too bad, but ARM7 only.
64bit versions should make good desktops.
Anyway you have provoked me to try piCore with X on a Pi3.
Just to see if is usable as a development Desktop.
is that still current?Slitaz was another that looked promising but it was just too hard to install.
http://arm.slitaz.org/rpi/
The new Pi Ubuntu spins are nice.
Lubuntu and Xubuntu are not too bad, but ARM7 only.
64bit versions should make good desktops.
Anyway you have provoked me to try piCore with X on a Pi3.
Just to see if is usable as a development Desktop.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Re: Linux Distro Question.
Yes there is a still a current Puppy for the RPi (FatDog Arm), though it is only for the RPi 2 and 3, and it is only a frugal install (means that it keeps the entire FS inside of SFS files (SFS is Squash FS). See:Gavinmc42 wrote:Puppy
Slitaz was another that looked promising but it was just too hard to install.
http://arm.slitaz.org/rpi/
The new Pi Ubuntu spins are nice.
Lubuntu and Xubuntu are not too bad, but ARM7 only.
64bit versions should make good desktops.
Anyway you have provoked me to try piCore with X on a Pi3.
Just to see if is usable as a development Desktop.
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=145192
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=92548
In my opinion the full install is better, that is using it like with other Linux Systems, where you have the Filesystem on a normal partition.
For the Raspberry Pi B (and other BCM2835 based RPi's) the best we can do is the old Zap6 version. Though if we can get a few people interested in Puppy Linux we may be able to see an actually stable version based on Zap6 that could even run on the RPi 3B. It is just a matter of getting people to see the advantages of a Full Install version of Puppy Linux.
I am going to attempt to do some puppy targeting (and puppy style) updates for Zap6, should mostly be simple recompiles from the main Puppy Source repos, though we shall see.
Now porting the new OpenGL will take some more work, and is one thing that I know way to little about.
This is enough to tear me away from RISC OS for a bit.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
Re: Linux Distro Question.
There is a current RPi 2/3 Quirky, just stumbled accross it while looking for more info on FatDog on the RPi 3B.Gavinmc42 wrote:Puppy
And I mean very current, the thread about it on the puppy forums was started this month. See:
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=108132
Have not yet tried it, though it looks promising, still reading the thread. I will have to put up a post in the Puppy sub forum here pointing out the new version.
Now I am quite happy, a truely usable Linux Distro for the Raspberry Pi, that is currently being developed
.RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
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Re: Linux Distro Question.
For the Pi3 a full 64bit Kernel + X win would be the optimum solution.
This means kernel 4.8.1 and all the rest compiled in 64bit A53 Arm7 specific.
But do we need X windows? It is very dated and bloated.
Time to move to Wayland/Weston or full accelerated desktop?
I'm just waiting to see what Eric Arnholt and the others come up with.
The hardware is currently under utilized.
This means kernel 4.8.1 and all the rest compiled in 64bit A53 Arm7 specific.
But do we need X windows? It is very dated and bloated.
Time to move to Wayland/Weston or full accelerated desktop?
I'm just waiting to see what Eric Arnholt and the others come up with.
The hardware is currently under utilized.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Re: Linux Distro Question.
At present the 32 bit is better, there may come a time when 64 bit has a significant advantage, though not for 99.9999% of current Lnux usage (especialy as we have NEON).Gavinmc42 wrote:For the Pi3 a full 64bit Kernel + X win would be the optimum solution.
This means kernel 4.8.1 and all the rest compiled in 64bit A53 Arm7 specific.
But do we need X windows? It is very dated and bloated.
Time to move to Wayland/Weston or full accelerated desktop?
I'm just waiting to see what Eric Arnholt and the others come up with.
The hardware is currently under utilized.
f
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
Re: Linux Distro Question.
The latest release of Quirky for the RPi 2/3 apears to be 8.0.25, and from what I am reading it apears to be pretty far allong . So take a look at it:
http://barryk.org/news/?viewDetailed=00426
The bug reports are out of date and the listed date is wrong. See the thread I linked above for more up to date status, I think Berry must have just coppied one of the very early Pre Alpha anouncements.
This is the version I will try on my RPi 3 (and 2), while I will attempt to get Zap6 up to date on the RPi B.
Finaly a very fast and small Linux that has all the bells and whistles on the RPi 2/3, I am very much happy with this.
Now I will have to join the Puppy Linux Forums.
. So take a look at it:http://barryk.org/news/?viewDetailed=00426
The bug reports are out of date and the listed date is wrong. See the thread I linked above for more up to date status, I think Berry must have just coppied one of the very early Pre Alpha anouncements.
This is the version I will try on my RPi 3 (and 2), while I will attempt to get Zap6 up to date on the RPi B.
Finaly a very fast and small Linux that has all the bells and whistles on the RPi 2/3, I am very much happy with this.
Now I will have to join the Puppy Linux Forums.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
Re: Linux Distro Question.
While it does not help with the Raspberry Pi B, I have found the perfect fit for a Linux for the Raspberry Pi 2B and 3B. That is Puppy Quirky.
For more info see the thread I started in the Puppy Linux sub-forum:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=162901
And yes Puppy quirky is up to date, just released this month. It is labeled as Alpha quality, though I am thinking it is probably closer to a beta quality, if not late beta or RC quality. I have long used Puppy on other platforms, and Berry always does very good work.
Now I would recommend changing the default color scheme once you get to the desktop, Berry did not choose the nicest one for this version of Puppy (most of them are quite nice). Thankfully it is easy to change the color scheme of JWM (the window manager used in Puppy) with the included tools.
This gives me also a platform to use to update Puppy Zap6 for the ARMv6 based RPi A/B/A+/B+/Zero. If I can get Zap6 up to date with Quirky then we will have a Puppy Linux for every Raspberry Pi.
For more info see the thread I started in the Puppy Linux sub-forum:
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=162901
And yes Puppy quirky is up to date, just released this month. It is labeled as Alpha quality, though I am thinking it is probably closer to a beta quality, if not late beta or RC quality. I have long used Puppy on other platforms, and Berry always does very good work.
Now I would recommend changing the default color scheme once you get to the desktop, Berry did not choose the nicest one for this version of Puppy (most of them are quite nice). Thankfully it is easy to change the color scheme of JWM (the window manager used in Puppy) with the included tools.
This gives me also a platform to use to update Puppy Zap6 for the ARMv6 based RPi A/B/A+/B+/Zero. If I can get Zap6 up to date with Quirky then we will have a Puppy Linux for every Raspberry Pi.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
More than 95% of posts made from RISC OS on RPi 1B/1B+ computers. Most of the rest from RISC OS on RPi 2B/3B/3B+ computers
Re: Linux Distro Question.
Using Lubuntu to input this.
Not sure how accelerated it is, but it is good enough for simple stuff.
0AD, Warzone2100 are my two test games, no OpenGL, OAD does not go to 3D map, Warzone runs slow.
So much the same as latest Raspbian
Could not upgrade to 4.8.1 kernel yet.
Using Mozilla to google other disties.
Fedora is another OS, I have not looked at for a while, found a Zero specific version.
https://pignus.computer/
https://arm.fedoraproject.org/
Not sure how accelerated it is, but it is good enough for simple stuff.
0AD, Warzone2100 are my two test games, no OpenGL, OAD does not go to 3D map, Warzone runs slow.
So much the same as latest Raspbian
Could not upgrade to 4.8.1 kernel yet.
Using Mozilla to google other disties.
Fedora is another OS, I have not looked at for a while, found a Zero specific version.
https://pignus.computer/
https://arm.fedoraproject.org/
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges