paqman
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2016 3:55 am

My Pi gets HOT

Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:40 pm

So here is my project so you know what I'm dealing with. Basically my pi3 is enclosed in the caging of a monitor. And this monitor gets HOT. So the pi gets hot. I'm talking it would sit at 83C constantly. However, I tested, and even with the monitor powered off all day, and producing no heat, the Pi still sits at around 78C. So just being in this housing makes it run very hot.

My top processes are iceweasel and python, running a few scripts all the time. CPU sits around 63%.

I got some aluminum heat sinks and put them on, and that lowered the Temps maybe 3 degrees, and it sits at 80C with the monitor on now.

It's very cramped in there, but I might be able to fit a little 20mm fan in the cage there with the pi. But I was wondering if there is anything else I can to to try to lower the temps.

Before the heat sinks, the cpu would be throttled at stayed 800mhz. Now it sits around 1.1ghz. If it drops below 80C, it will go back up to 1.2ghz. But that doesn't happen often.

Open to ideas. Thanks!

PocketHarambe101
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:56 pm

Isn't it normal for the pi to get hot? Using my pi 3 as a simple desktop PC makes it a bit toasty, although as not as hot as yours.
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paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:59 pm

Well yes, but anything over 80C starts throttling the cpu and I imagine much hotter will start doing damage at some point right?

broe23
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:24 pm

You need to get a fan on there and better venting. Also the Inverter for the LCD generates heat. If you look at any all-in-one device for POS and even in the Hospitals, they have up to two fans to pull air through to keep them cool.

Your project is not bad. It could probably benefit from having a Bluetooth capable keyboard and mouse or even a keyboard that can be removed from the case then put back, such as the smaller ones that are a part of the tablet cases and use Bluetooth.

Consider this Calendar unit 1.0. Move away from the buttons and use a touch screen with hot corners or even on the actual areas of what you are showing to say bring up the date with a listing of all appointments if multiple. Include Video Chat maybe in the next gen. I like what you did and it can be incorporated into various other ways in say an office, kiosk or even for someone who is limited to having to use a wheel chair and can have it for pulling up recipes and video chat with online tele-dr's, etc..
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:45 pm

broe23 wrote:You need to get a fan on there and better venting. Also the Inverter for the LCD generates heat. If you look at any all-in-one device for POS and even in the Hospitals, they have up to two fans to pull air through to keep them cool.

Your project is not bad. It could probably benefit from having a Bluetooth capable keyboard and mouse or even a keyboard that can be removed from the case then put back, such as the smaller ones that are a part of the tablet cases and use Bluetooth.

Consider this Calendar unit 1.0. Move away from the buttons and use a touch screen with hot corners or even on the actual areas of what you are showing to say bring up the date with a listing of all appointments if multiple. Include Video Chat maybe in the next gen. I like what you did and it can be incorporated into various other ways in say an office, kiosk or even for someone who is limited to having to use a wheel chair and can have it for pulling up recipes and video chat with online tele-dr's, etc..
Thanks, yes it has a Bluetooth media center keyboard attached that I use for when I need to mess around on the gui. And yes, the monitor is the one generating all the heat. However, even without the monitor it is in the low to mid 70's. I definitely plan to do another one with a touch screen. And that will be with a laptop monitor and will be much cooler anyway.

I will see if there's a way to rig up a fan in the cage next to the pi, and one near the top to pull air out my vent holes. My question is how to power it. Right now the gpio pins are all covered with an ide cable, so I may have to get inventive on how to power them. Also it's a bit under powered right now so I will need to get a stronger psu in there. Right now it is only powered off the monitor.

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johnb_summers
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:56 pm

paqman wrote:So here is my project so you know what I'm dealing with. Basically my pi3 is enclosed in the caging of a monitor. And this monitor gets HOT. So the pi gets hot. I'm talking it would sit at 83C constantly. However, I tested, and even with the monitor powered off all day, and producing no heat, the Pi still sits at around 78C. So just being in this housing makes it run very hot.

My top processes are iceweasel and python, running a few scripts all the time. CPU sits around 63%.

I got some aluminum heat sinks and put them on, and that lowered the Temps maybe 3 degrees, and it sits at 80C with the monitor on now.

It's very cramped in there, but I might be able to fit a little 20mm fan in the cage there with the pi. But I was wondering if there is anything else I can to to try to lower the temps.

Before the heat sinks, the cpu would be throttled at stayed 800mhz. Now it sits around 1.1ghz. If it drops below 80C, it will go back up to 1.2ghz. But that doesn't happen often.

Open to ideas. Thanks!
That is a great project, well done, love it, think it will get hot, 63% is a lot, you could add a lot of sleeps see how much that drops the temp, you could use a pi 2 and sleeps, that might drop it a bit more, a fan will drop it bit it will be heard, 3 of my pi's have fans and they do make some noise but for the pi 3 a fan is needed, it will get about 10 degrees hotter than a 2, well that what I have discovered, in fact I have a 3 and 2 running right now that can be seen by the public, the 2 don't have a fan but the 3 does, http://mypiworld.com/demo the 2 and http://mypiworld.com/demo3 the 3, I also have a test pi 3 with a fan testing this new Jessie pixel on http://mypiworld.com/mypipixel but I am not sure about this new update, those pi's have static IP and are on 24/7 so all can see how long they run for the demo and demo3 have been running for months the pixel one started today all run the same software, well the pixel version is running a OS sim and that will heat it and test it.
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peterlite
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:19 am

The wooden frame would block air flow. Are the top and bottom pieces far enough away from the wall to vent air? With the side pieces touching the wall and the top/bottom away from the wall, the device should start a chimney effect, pushing air up behind the frame.

broe23
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:29 am

What about trying a Water Cooler. The radiator system should be able to pull the temps down. Also maybe get a monitor system that you can stick the sensor near those chip areas that you want to collect data to keep an eye on, could help.

Maybe modify the current frame into more of a Steampunk setup, since you already have the start with the control buttons on the bottom. The radiator could be placed at the top. I wonder how easy that it would be to find a long 12" ruler style radiator to place on the top and have the fans inside the case blow up to help move the heat out of the system.

The tank may have to be upright and off to the other side. Draw up the current setup in Sketchup and post, or use a ruler and pencil to draw it out on paper and then scan in and upload. Then we can work with you on some ideas to make your setup even better.
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

broe23
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:32 am

peterlite wrote:The wooden frame would block air flow. Are the top and bottom pieces far enough away from the wall to vent air? With the side pieces touching the wall and the top/bottom away from the wall, the device should start a chimney effect, pushing air up behind the frame.
If his monitor package that he used is like the one I have downstairs. It is around 4" deep from front to back. Maybe add another inch.

With him wanting it in a traffic area, his concern to keep it close to the wall may have been why he hung it directly. It is all passible cooling that he uses on that unit. It is easy for him to modify the case and shield for better pull/push cooling.
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:43 am

Those are all great ideas. I'm afraid a water cooled option is out of the question, as is modifying the frame much, in a steam punk or other ways. I worked really hard on the frame and love the way it looks, so I gotta find a way to cool it with the frame it's currently in.

As for monitoring, the new Pixel desktop shows a little thermometer when it hits 80C, so I have a visual reminder. The whole thing is only about 2.5" deep, and because of the mounting bar I'm using and a power cable coiled at the bottom, the whole thing sits maybe an 8th of an inch off the all. A bit more near the top. I did drill some vent holes at the top, but they're obviously not doing much. I may just try to get a couple 40mm fans right now and put them right over those vent holes to try to move air up out of the top, and see how that goes. I might even be able to find some that will just run off the monitor usb. If I need to drill more vent holes so the fans can function better, I'm not opposed to that.

broe23
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 1:56 am

The water cooler may be the only option. Otherwise if you try and open the wall in that stud bay for venting. You are going to have to line it with the proper materials and also have a way to move hot air out of there and pull in cooler air to go inside and up through the shielding of the case.

Water coolers for the Pi are actually smaller than the units for desktops. The Pump case can be made to fit inside the shielding or where you can have it behind the unit if you can swing it out to get to the back.

Just play with what you have. You have the extra monitor still don't you? Use that as your template to make a prototype that you can fiddle around with and then roll out 2.0. It will give the kids something to help you solve, since they can use it for learning how to do the wood working and also create maybe in the end a unit that they can use for watching a library of movies or a game unit.

You have done a good job so far. Sounds like you still got the itch and as any good inventor does, they do not let anything stop them. Remember that when Edison was asked why he had failed. His remark was that he did not fail. He stated that he found 10,000 ways how to not make a light bulb.
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:08 am

broe23 wrote:The water cooler may be the only option. Otherwise if you try and open the wall in that stud bay for venting. You are going to have to line it with the proper materials and also have a way to move hot air out of there and pull in cooler air to go inside and up through the shielding of the case.

Water coolers for the Pi are actually smaller than the units for desktops. The Pump case can be made to fit inside the shielding or where you can have it behind the unit if you can swing it out to get to the back.

Just play with what you have. You have the extra monitor still don't you? Use that as your template to make a prototype that you can fiddle around with and then roll out 2.0. It will give the kids something to help you solve, since they can use it for learning how to do the wood working and also create maybe in the end a unit that they can use for watching a library of movies or a game unit.

You have done a good job so far. Sounds like you still got the itch and as any good inventor does, they do not let anything stop them. Remember that when Edison was asked why he had failed. His remark was that he did not fail. He stated that he found 10,000 ways how to not make a light bulb.
Ha thanks for the vote of confidence, I wish I had time to tinker with 2.0 right now. I'll research the water cooled option though. I do have the spare monitor, that's a good point. Thanks for the ideas. I do have the itch, just unfortunately no time to really scratch it. :-)

Graymalk
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:25 am

These are things I might try if I were doing this project:
- make the bottom bigger and put the Pi in there, away from the screen
- find a lower power screen
- turn the brightness down.
- underclock
- if you want minimal physical changes I would try all of: turning down the brightness, underclocking, and sleep whenever possible. Not sure if Pis can sleep. Bare ARM can of course so I imagine we can get our Pis to do it too. Have it wake on one of the buttons or something. Is the screen touch sensitive? That could wake it too.

Otherwise all I can think is to make sure it's not embedded in heat-holding stuff like plastic, wood, and cables, or try a heat pipe design or something. Wood is really good at holding heat and may be making the display overheat a bit so you may want to look into making some physical changes. I would find a fan annoying in this application unless it was imperceptibly quiet. Maybe install a big vent across the entire top (and perhaps also the bottom) as a start.

Edit: I started this post and got sidetracked a bunch of times before finishing it. Ok, you have some vent holes on top. I was thinking more like remove half of the top, lol, and maybe remove the same from the bottom. If you have the cables all neat and tidy then the hot air will move up and some airflow will happen if there are holes on the bottom.

paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:36 am

Graymalk wrote:These are things I might try if I were doing this project:
- make the bottom bigger and put the Pi in there, away from the screen
- find a lower power screen
- turn the brightness down.
- underclock
- if you want minimal physical changes I would try all of: turning down the brightness, underclocking, and sleep whenever possible. Not sure if Pis can sleep. Bare ARM can of course so I imagine we can get our Pis to do it too. Have it wake on one of the buttons or something. Is the screen touch sensitive? That could wake it too.

Otherwise all I can think is to make sure it's not embedded in heat-holding stuff like plastic, wood, and cables, or try a heat pipe design or something. Wood is really good at holding heat and may be making the display overheat a bit so you may want to look into making some physical changes. I would find a fan annoying in this application unless it was imperceptibly quiet. Maybe install a big vent across the entire top (and perhaps also the bottom) as a start.

Edit: I started this post and got sidetracked a bunch of times before finishing it. Ok, you have some vent holes on top. I was thinking more like remove half of the top, lol, and maybe remove the same from the bottom. If you have the cables all neat and tidy then the hot air will move up and some airflow will happen if there are holes on the bottom.
Yeah if I do one in the future, I don't plan on putting the Pi in the monitor cage again. I plan on using a laptop screen (touchscreen), which will be both lower power, and not as hot. Yes I may have to ad some more/larger holes on the top to get good airflow going. I haven't looked at seeing if I can turn the brightness down on this monitor, I bet I can lol. Didn't imagine that would help with the heat much, but it's worth a shot. Good idea.

Edit: I was able to turn the brightness down. Put it as low as it will go. Not sure that will make a difference in the temp though.

broe23
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:00 am

What about this USB unit that is normally for the PS3. https://www.amazon.com/VANKER-Black-USB ... mm+usb+fan The fans could be pulled off of that strip and the controller placed inside. I cannot find a mm size on those fans.

I did come across a 1U unit made by Tripp Lite that is a LCD and a laptop style keyboard, that I found while doing a search some items I was looking to be able to put back together my setup downstairs for hardware and software testing. It would be a perfect setup for a Garage or workshop. Even in your setup, it could be used for the same way with a slight modification to keep the screen open and the keyboard slides out of the way.

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Graymalk
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:03 am

paqman wrote: Edit: I was able to turn the brightness down. Put it as low as it will go. Not sure that will make a difference in the temp though.
Well I was just thinking in terms of reducing power. Your biggest power hog and heat generator is probably the backlight. If you turn it down it might knock a few degrees off.

paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:14 am

Graymalk wrote:
paqman wrote: Edit: I was able to turn the brightness down. Put it as low as it will go. Not sure that will make a difference in the temp though.
Well I was just thinking in terms of reducing power. Your biggest power hog and heat generator is probably the backlight. If you turn it down it might knock a few degrees off.
Well funny enough I've had it on dimmed for a bit now and the temp seems to be holding at 76C, which I'm actually very happy with. I'll watch it over the next few days. I'm not really concerned with power consumption, but I do need to get more power for the pi.
Last edited by paqman on Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

broe23
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:20 am

Changing the brightness will allow the Inverter to not work as hard. Your next one should probably use LED instead of Fluorescent. Check the U.S. Government auctions. They should be getting a huge lot of units from their swapping out to newer machines to run Windows 10 on.

This is a lot thinner unit than the older style that you are using and like I have downstairs. I cannot find just the raw parts as a unit, but this Acer 23" is able to allow you to mount the Pi on the back in some fashion. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Acer-T232HL-23- ... 1524332655

Look up "Stick Computer". It is the size that you need and even though it is not a PI unit, it does use the Intel Atom CPU and will still allow you to run Linux on it, with the Pi being used as maybe as a server to feed the other unit for the calendar, sensor info, updates on the school info.

This kind of stuff was what the whole Home Brew movement was about. Dreaming up ideas and then applying them in a way that you could do stuff that no one else could think of.

Building out a Hacked home system for each room to be able to use a small touch screen to control lights, see who is at the door, check their schedule for the day and maybe stream music can all be done with what you have started with.

We all have extra gadgets collecting dust. Interconnecting them back to the Pi as a server can help bring new life back to them.
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

broe23
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:21 am

paqman wrote:
Graymalk wrote:
paqman wrote: Edit: I was able to turn the brightness down. Put it as low as it will go. Not sure that will make a difference in the temp though.
Well I was just thinking in terms of reducing power. Your biggest power hog and heat generator is probably the backlight. If you turn it down it might knock a few degrees off.
Well funny enough I've had it on dimmed for a bit now and the temp deems to be holding at 76C, which I'm actually very happy with. I'll watch it over the next few days. I'm not really concerned with power consumption, but I do need to get more power for the pi.
Can you get a thermometer with a probe, such as one of the small sized Grill Thermometer to place the probe slightly inside and then you can glance at the temp reading?
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:29 am

broe23 wrote:Can you get a thermometer with a probe, such as one of the small sized Grill Thermometer to place the probe slightly inside and then you can glance at the temp reading?
I may be able to. What am I trying to measure, just ambient temp inside the cage?

Graymalk
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:37 am

paqman wrote:
Graymalk wrote:
paqman wrote: Edit: I was able to turn the brightness down. Put it as low as it will go. Not sure that will make a difference in the temp though.
Well I was just thinking in terms of reducing power. Your biggest power hog and heat generator is probably the backlight. If you turn it down it might knock a few degrees off.
Well funny enough I've had it on dimmed for a bit now and the temp seems to be holding at 76C, which I'm actually very happy with. I'll watch it over the next few days. I'm not really concerned with power consumption, but I do need to get more power for the pi.
Power consumption and heat are directly related. Reducing consumption reduces heat.

broe23
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:53 am

paqman wrote:
broe23 wrote:Can you get a thermometer with a probe, such as one of the small sized Grill Thermometer to place the probe slightly inside and then you can glance at the temp reading?
I may be able to. What am I trying to measure, just ambient temp inside the cage?
Yes, since the metal acts as a heat conductor if not able to be used as a way to passively act as a way to stay cool and allow the cooler air to flow up across the inside.

The fans that come with the "Premium" clear cases are really small. They are two pin/two wire fans that use the pins 4 & 6 on the 40 pin header, just need a 5vDC supply.
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

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Gerd
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:57 pm

paqman wrote:So here is my project so you know what I'm dealing with. Basically my pi3 is enclosed in the caging of a monitor. And this monitor gets HOT. So the pi gets hot. I'm talking it would sit at 83C constantly. However, I tested, and even with the monitor powered off all day, and producing no heat, the Pi still sits at around 78C. So just being in this housing makes it run very hot.

My top processes are iceweasel and python, running a few scripts all the time. CPU sits around 63%.

I got some aluminum heat sinks and put them on, and that lowered the Temps maybe 3 degrees, and it sits at 80C with the monitor on now.

Before the heat sinks, the cpu would be throttled at stayed 800mhz. Now it sits around 1.1ghz. If it drops below 80C, it will go back up to 1.2ghz. But that doesn't happen often.

Open to ideas. Thanks!
We still miss one informaton: What is PIs part of the temp?

To see this please measure PIs temp again with idling desdtop. Give it 1 h or so to settle. If the difference to PIs temp with average load of 63% is significant, then it is worth investigating cooling on PI, if not, then it is worth looking at reducing screen brightness and/or better convection.
Which heatsink did you use? If the temperature difference (see above) is significant, you might consider a larger heatsink before looking for a fan. See my post viewtopic.php?p=985087#p985087 for a heatsink comparison.

If you only used a small heatsink 'till now, I am pretty confident that you could get away with a larger one and don't need a noisy small fan. Better convection will always help.

paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:03 pm

Gerd wrote:
paqman wrote:So here is my project so you know what I'm dealing with. Basically my pi3 is enclosed in the caging of a monitor. And this monitor gets HOT. So the pi gets hot. I'm talking it would sit at 83C constantly. However, I tested, and even with the monitor powered off all day, and producing no heat, the Pi still sits at around 78C. So just being in this housing makes it run very hot.

My top processes are iceweasel and python, running a few scripts all the time. CPU sits around 63%.

I got some aluminum heat sinks and put them on, and that lowered the Temps maybe 3 degrees, and it sits at 80C with the monitor on now.

Before the heat sinks, the cpu would be throttled at stayed 800mhz. Now it sits around 1.1ghz. If it drops below 80C, it will go back up to 1.2ghz. But that doesn't happen often.

Open to ideas. Thanks!
We still miss one informaton: What is PIs part of the temp?

To see this please measure PIs temp again with idling desdtop. Give it 1 h or so to settle. If the difference to PIs temp with average load of 63% is significant, then it is worth investigating cooling on PI, if not, then it is worth looking at reducing screen brightness and/or better convection.
Which heatsink did you use? If the temperature difference (see above) is significant, you might consider a larger heatsink before looking for a fan. See my post viewtopic.php?p=985087#p985087 for a heatsink comparison.

If you only used a small heatsink 'till now, I am pretty confident that you could get away with a larger one and don't need a noisy small fan. Better convection will always help.
That's a good thought I haven't tried that. I'll kill the python script and shut down Firefox and see how it goes. But I'm actually really pleased with the drop in temp just from putting the brightness of the screen down. Almost a 10 degree drop. I am curious what the Temps would be if I were running this at full load just sitting on my desk outside of the cage as well.

The heat sinks I bought are just these cheap ones off Amazon.

LoveRPi Performance Heatsink Set for Raspberry Pi 3 Model B CPU and LAN (2 Heatsinks) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B018BGRDVS/re ... 8xb1HBFAWA

I may be able to fit a larger one on there and will definitely consider that. Thanks.

paqman
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Re: My Pi gets HOT

Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:54 pm

Gerd wrote:
We still miss one informaton: What is PIs part of the temp?

To see this please measure PIs temp again with idling desdtop. Give it 1 h or so to settle. If the difference to PIs temp with average load of 63% is significant, then it is worth investigating cooling on PI, if not, then it is worth looking at reducing screen brightness and/or better convection.
Which heatsink did you use? If the temperature difference (see above) is significant, you might consider a larger heatsink before looking for a fan. See my post viewtopic.php?p=985087#p985087 for a heatsink comparison.

If you only used a small heatsink 'till now, I am pretty confident that you could get away with a larger one and don't need a noisy small fan. Better convection will always help.
So a little update. First off, with the screen brightness dimmed, I originally reported that the Temps went down to 73C. I was wrong. After it was on all day today, it was back up to 80C.

But, back to your other question, I killed Firefox, and my python buttons script, and the temps almost immediately shot down and are sitting pretty at 60C. CPU is running at 3% right now. It seems that my buttons script causes most of it, but Firefox is also using almost the same amount of cpu. They are both using about 100% of a core each.

So it is definitely the my processes heating the pi up and not the monitor as much.

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