bubblegumpi
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Is it normal for raspbian to just crash?

Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:41 am

I bough this pi3 two weeks ago and find it does wierd things like shut down the browser or go into a screen that asks for a password. Often the only solution is just to unplug. Is this normal and will be worked out with time? I just have a stock pi3 on a 16GB flash drive. Not a single mod or program added to it.
New to Linux, Keep in mind I'm legally blind, so my questions may seem dumb. Yes, I did a search, that's why I'm here. Links to FAQ'a and youtube are a HUGE help.| MY OS: Pi 3B with Oct'16 Noobs Raspberrian, 16Gb SD drive, HDMI video, no extras

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RaTTuS
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Sep 30, 2016 6:50 am

no
can you show an image of this password screen ?
what hardware have you got plugged in ?
what PSU have you got ?
post URLs to all relevant info

do you get power brown outs ?
if booting to the command line does anything untoward happen ?
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Pithagoros
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Sep 30, 2016 9:49 am

I've found browser crashing to be a standard feature since Jessie.

But there is usually no after-effect. Just restart the browser and continue.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Sep 30, 2016 11:37 am

Do you have a heatsink on the CPU?
I have found my 3's run cooler and don't do weird stuff.
Chromium is a little buggy, but it is a hog anyway ;)
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bubblegumpi
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:38 am

RaTTuS wrote:no
can you show an image of this password screen ?
Thats tricky as I can't do anything when it up except to unplug it.
Do you just press ctrl prntscrn then paste in paint?
RaTTuS wrote: what hardware have you got plugged in ?
I had a tiny five volt fan to pins 4 and 6 but found it unnecessary, so I never used it again after the install. I put two copper and aluminum heatsinks on the processor and I guess the memory; the little 1cm sized square chip next ti the ARM. Stays just barely warm maybe 40'C. I just use the bottom half of the case instead of the fan.
RaTTuS wrote: what PSU have you got ?
I bought a $8, two amp, USB switch mode power supply from ada fruit hoping it wasn't some POS, but I haven't opened it up so I'm going on faith. Also I'm using a good USB power cable from another device for reliability.
RaTTuS wrote:
post URLs to all relevant info
? Its just bought from adafruit no products to link to.
RaTTuS wrote:
do you get power brown outs ?
Sometimes the A/C compressors cause the lights to dim but I have seen it do this when the A/C is not on.
RaTTuS wrote: if booting to the command line does anything untoward happen ?
Untoward? I grew up with DOS then windows so I'm not sure how to do that. Very new to me, but I have a thing for computers.

I almost have "Too good to be true" syndrome and considering abandoning the pi as I want to learn linux but I need something that will only crash because I did something stupid. Breaking on it's own causes too many variables.
New to Linux, Keep in mind I'm legally blind, so my questions may seem dumb. Yes, I did a search, that's why I'm here. Links to FAQ'a and youtube are a HUGE help.| MY OS: Pi 3B with Oct'16 Noobs Raspberrian, 16Gb SD drive, HDMI video, no extras

stderr
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 2:22 am

Pithagoros wrote:I've found browser crashing to be a standard feature since Jessie.
What browser? Firefox seems to work fine for me on the pi2 and pi3. If you are running without swap and you run of memory, something has got to give.

ejolson
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:27 am

bubblegumpi wrote:I bough this pi3 two weeks ago and find it does wierd things like shut down the browser or go into a screen that asks for a password. Often the only solution is just to unplug. Is this normal and will be worked out with time? I just have a stock pi3 on a 16GB flash drive. Not a single mod or program added to it.
I also bought a Pi 3 about 2 weeks ago. As one of my interests is scientific computation, one of the first things I did was to test how quickly it can solve systems of linear equations. The program HPL spends a couple seconds initializing and then calls OpenBLAS with all 4 cores enabled to solve the system. However, at that moment, with default settings my Pi 3 crashed every time.

I found this stability issue could be fixed in either of two ways: lower the clock speed or raise the voltage. Either of these approaches can be taken by adding an appropriate line to the file /boot/config.txt. For lowering the clock speed add

Code: Select all

arm_freq=900
to the file; for raising the voltage add

Code: Select all

over_voltage=2
instead.

While solving systems of linear equations using optimized code is hardware intensive, I suspect hardware malfunctions still occur, though at a lower rate, when doing less CPU intensive tasks. The fact that your entire Pi becomes unstable suggests hardware issues not just the browser. If the program linked above either crashes the system or fails to pass the residual check at the end, that confirms hardware problems.

If running a third-party binary troubles you, it only takes about 30 minutes to recompile from source. That's what I did. On the other hand, you could just try changing /boot/config.txt as suggested above and see if the stability issues go away. If you don't have a heat sink or are unsure about the quality of your power supply, try under clocking with arm_freq=900 first.

Note, if the login screen pops up, there is a default user "pi" with a default password "raspberry", which you can use to get back into the system without power cycling.

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rpdom
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 4:56 am

bubblegumpi wrote:I put two copper and aluminum heatsinks on the processor and I guess the memory; the little 1cm sized square chip next ti the ARM.
That chip next to the Broadcom SoC (ARM+GPU) is the USB+Network chip. The memory is on the underside of the board. Neither of those should get hot enough to worry about, only the Broadcom chip may need cooling.

martinmarty
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:56 am

I've worked quite a bit with RPi 2, nothing with model 3 except buying one and throwing it on the bench for future spare time.

I have seen the kind of erratic behavior you're describing a couple times on RPi 2 and it was invariably the power supply.

I thought the power requirements on RPi 3 increased to 2.4 or 2.5A and you said you bought a good 2 amp PSU from Adafruit. I trust the Adafruit quality but I'd at least try a 2.5A power supply. Here, I found a page: https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs

Quit beating your head against the wall and try another power supply ASAP. I spent a lot of hours fighting what I thought was an I2C demon only to finally discover it was a marginal power supply and I really felt like an idiot when I got to the answer because I had been so resistant to trying the obvious (I had swapped out all other hardware)

I have had good results with MCM products, but like I said, haven't actually played around with RPi 3 yet:
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/D ... -/28-21442
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/P ... -/28-19336

Good luck, YMMV.
-Marty

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rpdom
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:05 am

martinmarty wrote:I thought the power requirements on RPi 3 increased to 2.4 or 2.5A and you said you bought a good 2 amp PSU from Adafruit. I trust the Adafruit quality but I'd at least try a 2.5A power supply. Here, I found a page: https://www.raspberrypi.org/help/faqs/#powerReqs
That's power recommendations for a fully loaded system. For a Pi3 without loads of peripherals (USB disk etc), 2A is plenty. As long as the red PWR light is on all the time you have enough power.

If it goes out at all, then you have to suspect the power supply or power cable.

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DavidS
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:31 am

Very likely an issue with the power supply.

Though also what version of Raspbian are you using? The included Epiphany browser in Jessie does tend to crash, though with the Pixel Desktop versions they are including Chrome as default. I know you said it is less than a week old, though did you purchase a premade SD Card, download the Pixel Desktop Raspbian Image, or use NOOBS?
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RaTTuS
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:53 am

get the latest raspbian
as your using a browser this may help
with this version do you ever get lightning symbols in the top right of the display
are you using a hdmi monitor

do you have another machine that you can ssh into the raspbian so you can see what is what when things go south
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Graymalk
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:34 pm

ejolson wrote:raise the voltage.
I've had to do this on all my Pis. In fact I have it in an image I use on any new Pi I acquire (I just raise the voltage by default now). The only Pi it hasn't stabilized is my Pi B, which I think has an anemic power adapter (raising voltage causes it not to boot).

If I don't raise the voltage, the symptoms are weird crashes and hangs.

I buy big adapters for them now, too. The instability of my B and its little adapter is not acceptable to me.

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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:27 pm

bubblegumpi wrote:I bough this pi3 two weeks ago and find it does wierd things like shut down the browser or go into a screen that asks for a password. Often the only solution is just to unplug.
After reading the original post again, another possibility seems likely: The browser consumes too much RAM, triggers the out-of-memory killer which kills the window manager. As the pi user is logged in automatically upon boot, new users have never seen the login screen or learned how to log in. Thus, it becomes necessary to power cycle the system to do anything more, which is frustrating.

From a teaching point of view, it is easier for students to learn simple things first. From a engineering point of view, it is easier to automate the simple things.

While automating simple things allows starting with interesting things, it can significantly steepen the learning curve later on. When simple things such as looking at boot messages and logging in are delayed until bigger issues arise, the bigger issue becomes huge. Not only does automation prevent simple things from being learned first, it adds complexity to make simple things rather complicated.
Example of Something Simple made Complicated wrote:To disable auto login of the default user "pi" in current versions of Raspbian Pixel one needs to change a line in two different files. In /etc/systemd/system/[email protected] change

ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty --autologin pi --noclear %I $TERM

to

ExecStart=-/sbin/agetty --noclear %I $TERM

and in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf change

autologin-user=pi

to

#autologin-user=pi
In my opinion, embedding the name of the default user "pi" as a special case in configuration files deep within the system makes simple things complicated. Even more difficult is that current web searches on disabling auto login for the Raspberry Pi suggest editing /etc/inittab which doesn't exist anymore. Is it possible such attempts to simplify the operation of Raspbian have made learing how things work just as difficult as understanding proprietary operating systems aimed at office tasks?

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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:56 pm

ejolson wrote: ...
Example of Something Simple made Complicated wrote:To disable auto login of the default user "pi" in current versions of Raspbian Pixel one needs to change a line in two different files.
...
Or simply select the appropriate "System" options in the "Raspberry Pi Configuration" GUI - first screenshot here**:
http://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi ... Rename_Etc.
(However that does require a keyboard, mouse? and monitor)
Trev.
** NB. that was a "pre-Pixel" screenshot, but I did the same in "Jessie Pixel" since 1) I don't need auto-login and 2) prefer to boot to command-line (most of my Pi's running headless, post-install).
Still running Raspbian Jessie on some older Pi's (an A, B1, B2, B+, P2B, 3xP0, P0W) but Stretch on my 2xP3A+, P3B+, P3B, B+, A+ and a B2. See: https://www.cpmspectrepi.uk/raspberry_pi/raspiidx.htm

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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 12:41 am

FTrevorGowen wrote:Or simply select the appropriate "System" options in the "Raspberry Pi Configuration" GUI
Thanks, that's an even better example of extra complexity used to automate simple tasks. Do you think the GUI sends a message on dbus to a back end that configures a configuration script that in turn configures how systemd configures the system? How does it work? I can't even find the configuration file that configures the launch panel to launch the "Raspberry Pi Configuration" GUI to do the rest.

bubblegumpi
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:19 am

ejolson wrote:
bubblegumpi wrote:I bough this pi3 two weeks ago and find it does wierd things like shut down the browser or go into a screen that asks for a password. Often the only solution is just to unplug. Is this normal and will be worked out with time? I just have a stock pi3 on a 16GB flash drive. Not a single mod or program added to it.
I also bought a Pi 3 about 2 weeks ago. As one of my interests is scientific computation, one of the first things I did was to test how quickly it can solve systems of linear equations. The program HPL spends a couple seconds initializing and then calls OpenBLAS with all 4 cores enabled to solve the system. However, at that moment, with default settings my Pi 3 crashed every time.

I found this stability issue could be fixed in either of two ways: lower the clock speed or raise the voltage. Either of these approaches can be taken by adding an appropriate line to the file /boot/config.txt. For lowering the clock speed add

Code: Select all

arm_freq=900
to the file; for raising the voltage add

Code: Select all

over_voltage=2
instead.

While solving systems of linear equations using optimized code is hardware intensive, I suspect hardware malfunctions still occur, though at a lower rate, when doing less CPU intensive tasks. The fact that your entire Pi becomes unstable suggests hardware issues not just the browser. If the program linked above either crashes the system or fails to pass the residual check at the end, that confirms hardware problems.

If running a third-party binary troubles you, it only takes about 30 minutes to recompile from source. That's what I did. On the other hand, you could just try changing /boot/config.txt as suggested above and see if the stability issues go away. If you don't have a heat sink or are unsure about the quality of your power supply, try under clocking with arm_freq=900 first.

Note, if the login screen pops up, there is a default user "pi" with a default password "raspberry", which you can use to get back into the system without power cycling.

Can you guys point me to a tutorial of how to edit these files? Like a youtube video or instructions? I don't even know what keywords I would put in. I'm just starting to learn the syntax of the terminal. I figured out: cd, dir, and that its case sensitive so I'm pretty new to this.

Also for my boot drive I copied noobz to a 16GB flash drive, it was a generic kingston that required no formatting.

And can you point me to a tutorial of how to "go into" my pi from my windows 10 laptop? What is that called?

Once I learn how to edit from the command line it will be better But another thing I'm trying to figure out is how to change the boot settings.

And the " and @ keys are reversed but the 2 and the ' key work fine.

I like how the instructions say "requires 1 amp", so I get a two amp just because I know how IC's don't like voltage fluctuations when the I is too low in V=IR. but now double is not enough? Also is the ada fruit usb a good power supply or are they just charging more so you think its better regulated. Wish there was some sort of standard you could go by when buying them.

Also when scrolling down using the rollar on the mouse I will often see the checker board pattern that makes scrolling through alot of long posts tedious. Is there a way to alocate more memory to get rid of that delay?

Still trying to figure out how to download firefox. Either mozilla's site is not informative or I can't see the instructions for some reason.

Also I'm using a the HDMI imput on a samsung TV/monitor as my screen. The sound doesn't work on this one but when I use my LG monitor in the other room the sound works fine. Volume is up nd so is my frustration.
New to Linux, Keep in mind I'm legally blind, so my questions may seem dumb. Yes, I did a search, that's why I'm here. Links to FAQ'a and youtube are a HUGE help.| MY OS: Pi 3B with Oct'16 Noobs Raspberrian, 16Gb SD drive, HDMI video, no extras

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DavidS
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 5:33 am

First upgrad your Raspbian. That checker board pattern tells me you are using an older Raspbian image, go to the downloads section and get the newest one, and put it on your sd card (using something like DD), then you should be rid of 99% of your problems, and the default web browser will be Chromium.

Do not use FireFox, it is intolerably slow on the RPi.
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bubblegumpi
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:12 am

DavidS wrote:First upgrad your Raspbian. That checker board pattern tells me you are using an older Raspbian image, go to the downloads section and get the newest one, and put it on your sd card (using something like DD), then you should be rid of 99% of your problems, and the default web browser will be Chromium.

Do not use FireFox, it is intolerably slow on the RPi.
It changes that fast? I just set this thing up like a month ago. So download noobz again and start the whole thing over from scratch? There is no way to just "upgrade". Not familiar with the acronym DD.

What version should I look for so I don't accidentally spend all that time just downloading an old copy? Sounds like this will work even though its a bit of a PITA...I'm not lazy but I am going blind anyway to send me a link I can open on my windows 10 machime? ;)
New to Linux, Keep in mind I'm legally blind, so my questions may seem dumb. Yes, I did a search, that's why I'm here. Links to FAQ'a and youtube are a HUGE help.| MY OS: Pi 3B with Oct'16 Noobs Raspberrian, 16Gb SD drive, HDMI video, no extras

bubblegumpi
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:32 am

To fix the @ " problem change the keyboard to american. I thought they were the same. Do british key boards really have an @ where the " should be? what a pain.
New to Linux, Keep in mind I'm legally blind, so my questions may seem dumb. Yes, I did a search, that's why I'm here. Links to FAQ'a and youtube are a HUGE help.| MY OS: Pi 3B with Oct'16 Noobs Raspberrian, 16Gb SD drive, HDMI video, no extras

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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:17 am

bubblegumpi wrote:
DavidS wrote:First upgrad your Raspbian. That checker board pattern tells me you are using an older Raspbian image, go to the downloads section and get the newest one, and put it on your sd card (using something like DD), then you should be rid of 99% of your problems, and the default web browser will be Chromium.

Do not use FireFox, it is intolerably slow on the RPi.
It changes that fast? I just set this thing up like a month ago. So download noobz again and start the whole thing over from scratch? There is no way to just "upgrade". Not familiar with the acronym DD.
There has been a recent big change in Raspbian called Pixel Desktop. And NO do not go with noobs, use the regular Raspbian SD image (I am sure that noobs is up to date, though why get a lot of things you are not using), and using an image writing tool to write it to the sd card.

DD is a multi platform tool that is commonly used to write disk/flash/SD Card images to the real device. Though use what ever tool you are familiar with.
What version should I look for so I don't accidentally spend all that time just downloading an old copy? Sounds like this will work even though its a bit of a PITA...I'm not lazy but I am going blind anyway to send me a link I can open on my windows 10 machime? ;)
https://www.raspberrypi.org/downloads/raspbian/

That is always where to get the newest one.

Once you have that setup you can update it the normal way.
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:39 am

To fix the @ " problem change the keyboard to american. I thought they were the same. Do british key boards really have an @ where the " should be? what a pain.
Do american key boards really have an @ where the " should be? what a pain.

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RaTTuS
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 8:45 am

jahboater wrote:
To fix the @ " problem change the keyboard to american. I thought they were the same. Do british key boards really have an @ where the " should be? what a pain.
Do american key boards really have an @ where the " should be? what a pain.
yes and the # is where the \ is
£ does not = # [pounds are not pounds ]
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:09 am

Before you go downloading and install a whole new OS from scratch it might be wise to check that you really have an old one in the first place.

Open a console and see what the OS version is:

$ cat /etc/issue

Should reply:

Raspbian GNU/Linux 8

If it 8 then all you need to do is upgrade it:

$ sudo apt-get update
$ sudo apt-get upgrade

bubblegumpi
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Re: Is it normal for raspberrian to just crash?

Fri Oct 07, 2016 11:20 am

Heater wrote:Before you go downloading and install a whole new OS from scratch it might be wise to check that you really have an old one in the first place.

Open a console and see what the OS version is:

$ cat /etc/issue

Should reply:

Raspbian GNU/Linux 8

If it 8 then all you need to do is upgrade it:

$ sudo apt-get update
$ sudo apt-get upgrade
Thanks for all the reply's I'm doing this now. Thats what I like about linux some one can just tell you what to type in and it's almost impossible to screw up the instructions. Then you can go back and look up the commands and find out what they mean.
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