cjan
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Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:08 am

what a stranger thing, $35 ?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:48 am

Say, what? There is only one Pi2 model and that is the Pi2B. What is this "Pi2+" of which you speak?

cjan
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:00 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:Say, what? There is only one Pi2 model and that is the Pi2B. What is this "Pi2+" of which you speak?
not my spoke

Code: Select all

popcornmix Wrote:
Pi2+ isn't very exciting. It's a Pi2 PCB with underclocked Pi3 CPU (2837). Basically 2836 has become too expensive to produce for the small number of (mostly industrial) customers who still want to buy Pi2. So, there is now a Pi2+ for them for same price as Pi3, without wifi/bluetooth, and clocked at 900MHz.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:36 am

adieu

Asus CS10 Chromebit / HP Envy 4500 Wireless Printer / Raspberry Pi Model 2B v1.1 / RealVNC Software...

10robinho
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:59 pm

This means we will see stop in production of RPI2?

What are actual differences between RPI2 and RPI3 physically so someone would need adopted version of RPI2?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:49 pm

cjan wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:Say, what? There is only one Pi2 model and that is the Pi2B. What is this "Pi2+" of which you speak?
not my spoke

Code: Select all

popcornmix Wrote:
Pi2+ isn't very exciting. It's a Pi2 PCB with underclocked Pi3 CPU (2837). Basically 2836 has become too expensive to produce for the small number of (mostly industrial) customers who still want to buy Pi2. So, there is now a Pi2+ for them for same price as Pi3, without wifi/bluetooth, and clocked at 900MHz.
Aside from suggesting that blockquote would be a better tag choice than code, that's interesting, but it's really more of a Pi3- than a Pi2+. Still, before believing that this is a real product I'd prefer to see it directly from an RPF source. Anything else is either speculation or rumor.

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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:52 pm

10robinho wrote:This means we will see stop in production of RPI2?

What are actual differences between RPI2 and RPI3 physically so someone would need adopted version of RPI2?
Besides the differences between a BCM2836 and a BCM2837 you mean? There is a board layout difference between them. The indicator LEDs were moved to a different corner to accommodate the WiFi/BT chip and antenna. (The official RPF case changed to go along with this.)

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bensimmo
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:38 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
cjan wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:Say, what? There is only one Pi2 model and that is the Pi2B. What is this "Pi2+" of which you speak?
not my spoke

Code: Select all

popcornmix Wrote:
Pi2+ isn't very exciting. It's a Pi2 PCB with underclocked Pi3 CPU (2837). Basically 2836 has become too expensive to produce for the small number of (mostly industrial) customers who still want to buy Pi2. So, there is now a Pi2+ for them for same price as Pi3, without wifi/bluetooth, and clocked at 900MHz.
Aside from suggesting that blockquote would be a better tag choice than code, that's interesting, but it's really more of a Pi3- than a Pi2+. Still, before believing that this is a real product I'd prefer to see it directly from an RPF source. Anything else is either speculation or rumor.
Farnell sell them unless they have a big typo.

They don't call it a plus though.

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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:51 pm

bensimmo wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: Aside from suggesting that blockquote would be a better tag choice than code, that's interesting, but it's really more of a Pi3- than a Pi2+. Still, before believing that this is a real product I'd prefer to see it directly from an RPF source. Anything else is either speculation or rumor.
Farnell sell them unless they have a big typo.

They don't call it a plus though.
What *do* they call it? I checked and I don't see anything I can identify as BCM2837 board without WiFi. (Got a link?)

sneakernets
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:05 pm

Yeah, that it is, a thing. It's already mentioned in the firmware repository. I assumed eventually that certain chips would start becoming more expensive to fabricate as time goes on, but not at this pace!

jdb
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:07 pm

Code: Select all

git diff -u "Raspberry Pi 2 Model B v1.1" "Raspberry Pi 2 Model B v1.2"

- U1: BCM2836
+ U1: BCM2837
The only functional change is that the SoC has been swapped to BCM2837. Default clocks are set to BCM2836 norms. Notionally called a "Pi2+", the only visible hardware change apart from the SoC swap is that the silk-screen has a different point revision number. The model string in /proc/devicetree will also reflect the change.
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milhouse
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:17 pm

@jdb just out of interest, what is the new revision code for the Pi2+?

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bensimmo
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:29 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
bensimmo wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: Aside from suggesting that blockquote would be a better tag choice than code, that's interesting, but it's really more of a Pi3- than a Pi2+. Still, before believing that this is a real product I'd prefer to see it directly from an RPF source. Anything else is either speculation or rumor.
Farnell sell them unless they have a big typo.

They don't call it a plus though.
What *do* they call it? I checked and I don't see anything I can identify as BCM2837 board without WiFi. (Got a link?)
A Pi2 (without the +)
http://uk.farnell.com/raspberrypi-board ... -2-model-b

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Burngate
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:34 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:There is a board layout difference between them. The indicator LEDs were moved to a different corner to accommodate the WiFi/BT chip and antenna. (The official RPF case changed to go along with this.)
Also some things got moved from GPIOs to an extender - camera enable, status LED, USB chip control, for example.

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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:41 pm

bensimmo wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: What *do* they call it? I checked and I don't see anything I can identify as BCM2837 board without WiFi. (Got a link?)
A Pi2 (without the +)
http://uk.farnell.com/raspberrypi-board ... -2-model-b
Interesting. Does rather imply that any such board could probably be overclocked to 1.2GHZ, making it a Pi3B without the WiFi.... I will have to check other sites carefully to see where else it may have turned up so far.

Edit to add... I can't tell from that picture where the status LEDs are located.

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lpsw
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:47 pm

MCM also, currently 97 days out.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-16530
Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is - Isaac Asimov

milhouse
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:00 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: Edit to add... I can't tell from that picture where the status LEDs are located.
"Pi2 PCB" (which is a genuine quote from Dom/popcornmix, btw) - I'd imagine the LEDs are right where they are on a BCM2836 based Pi2.

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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:02 pm

lpsw wrote:MCM also, currently 97 days out.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/83-16530
Nope. That's the original version. In the specs it says:

Processor: ARM7 900Mhz CPU

The '2837 SoC is ARMv8A

So far, the only place I've turned up a '2837-based Pi2B is Newark/Element 14. All others I've found give specs that are still '2836 SoCs. Does make me wonder if finding this (by the OP and others) is actually a leak in advance of an announcement.

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lpsw
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:05 pm

Look closer
The updated Pi 2 Model B design is based around a Broadcom BCM2837 SoC (same as the Pi 3) Quad Core ARMv8 processor running at 900 MHz just like the original Pi 2.
Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is - Isaac Asimov

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:06 pm

milhouse wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: Edit to add... I can't tell from that picture where the status LEDs are located.
"Pi2 PCB" (which is a genuine quote from Dom/popcornmix, btw) - I'd imagine the LEDs are right where they are on a BCM2836 based Pi2.
You may be right. I won't know for sure until I get my hands on one, or better images show up. I can think of advantages and disadvantages to doing that. On the plus side, if someone is using a particular case design, that would stay the same. On the other hand, it complicates manufacturing inventory to stock two different PCBs for what is, essentially, the same board.

jdb
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:11 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: Nope. That's the original version. In the specs it says:

Processor: ARM7 900Mhz CPU

The '2837 SoC is ARMv8A

So far, the only place I've turned up a '2837-based Pi2B is Newark/Element 14. All others I've found give specs that are still '2836 SoCs. Does make me wonder if finding this (by the OP and others) is actually a leak in advance of an announcement.
It's a point release of an earlier-generation product that allows us to drop BCM2836, given that the relative economies of scale that apply to BCM2835 and BCM2837 SoC production no longer apply to BCM2836.

That's not to say that there's zero demand for Pi2 - industrial customers still want Pi2, because putting a Pi3 in the same aggregate product as Pi2 is substantially different from a compliance perspective - Pi3 is an intentional RF radiator whereas Pi2 is has no on-board RF. Plus [email protected] is more power-hungry which has implications for designed-in thermal solutions if the Pi2 was being used in a confined or high-temperature environment.
Rockets are loud.
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:34 pm

jdb wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote: Nope. That's the original version. In the specs it says:

Processor: ARM7 900Mhz CPU

The '2837 SoC is ARMv8A

So far, the only place I've turned up a '2837-based Pi2B is Newark/Element 14. All others I've found give specs that are still '2836 SoCs. Does make me wonder if finding this (by the OP and others) is actually a leak in advance of an announcement.
It's a point release of an earlier-generation product that allows us to drop BCM2836, given that the relative economies of scale that apply to BCM2835 and BCM2837 SoC production no longer apply to BCM2836.

That's not to say that there's zero demand for Pi2 - industrial customers still want Pi2, because putting a Pi3 in the same aggregate product as Pi2 is substantially different from a compliance perspective - Pi3 is an intentional RF radiator whereas Pi2 is has no on-board RF. Plus [email protected] is more power-hungry which has implications for designed-in thermal solutions if the Pi2 was being used in a confined or high-temperature environment.
All good reasons. I suppose I shouldn't be at all startled by it coming out this way, though it makes ordering boards a bit chancy, since if one doesn't check the specs carefully *every* time, one might not get what one expected (as witness the link a few posts up on the MCM listing). Still one would expect a 900MHz '2837 to be a little bit faster than a 900MHz '2836, so this is--in a way--a modest upgrade....plus it means that a Pi2B could run a 64-bit OS if someone wanted to do that. It's enough to make one wonder if the Pi Zero will--someday--get the same treatment as '2835 usage wanes.

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lpsw
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 6:41 pm

MCM clearly messed up their new page. If you read the details (below above what you quoted) it seems they are planning to sell the version with the Pi3 SOC in ~97 days.
Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is - Isaac Asimov

ejolson
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:08 pm

lpsw wrote:MCM clearly messed up their new page. If you read the details (below above what you quoted) it seems they are planning to sell the version with the Pi3 SOC in ~97 days.
Underclocking and undervolting a Pi 3 to obtain a comparable power requirements as Pi 2 is a natural idea that has been mentioned by myself and others from time to time. Building an updated SBC without the WiFi and Bluetooth should further help reach the same power efficiency. It would be interesting to know if any testing is done to separate the slower SOC's from the faster ones when choosing which go into the revised Pi 2.

laurent
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Re: Rpi2+

Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:20 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
cjan wrote:
W. H. Heydt wrote:Say, what? There is only one Pi2 model and that is the Pi2B. What is this "Pi2+" of which you speak?
not my spoke

Code: Select all

popcornmix Wrote:
Pi2+ isn't very exciting. It's a Pi2 PCB with underclocked Pi3 CPU (2837). Basically 2836 has become too expensive to produce for the small number of (mostly industrial) customers who still want to buy Pi2. So, there is now a Pi2+ for them for same price as Pi3, without wifi/bluetooth, and clocked at 900MHz.
Aside from suggesting that blockquote would be a better tag choice than code, that's interesting, but it's really more of a Pi3- than a Pi2+. Still, before believing that this is a real product I'd prefer to see it directly from an RPF source. Anything else is either speculation or rumor.
Changes from Pi3 :
- BCM2837 frequencies
- LED position
- SDIO
- UART
- WIFI and BT removal

(Only) Change from Pi2 :
- BCM2837

From my point of view, it's likely more a Pi2+ than a Pi3- ;)

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