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raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:09 am
by daveyman123
I know its only been a few months since the release of the zero but..
is there any news on what the specs will be like for the raspberry pi 4?

I would love to see something capable of better video game emulation
a reset button would be nice also

what would you like to see in the RPi 4?

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:58 am
by DavidS
WOW, and I thought they were moving forward to fast :) .

What video game systems are you attempting to emulate?

I ask as the RPi 2 is more than powerful enough to emulate most of them (anything up through a PlayStation/Nintendo 64/Atari Jaguar/etc) anyjway.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:57 am
by W. H. Heydt
Okay... First off, this is a frequent topic. You will find many, many threads speculating about or requesting features for the "next Pi". You will also find that all, or nearly all, of them are locked.

It has been about 9 months since the Pi Zero was launched and a bit over 5 months since the Pi3B was launched. During the flurry of public statements and news coverage of the Pi3B launch, there were comments about what comes next, specifically a CM3 ("this year") and a Pi3A ("later this year"). At this point, it is unlikely that we will see the CM3 until at least September and it could be later than that. My personal opinion is that the Pi3A won't actually be launched until the first quarter of 2017--especially since the A+512MB boards are just starting to show up.

The other major--and relevant to this thread--"announcement" was "don't expect the next version of the Pi for 2 to 3 years." The issue is that not only does a new SoC have to be designed, tested and gotten into production, but Broadcom appears to be planning to shift from 40nm process node to 28nm, so this is NOT going to be a "drop new CPUs in and roll" like the 2836 and 2837 were.

I would say that this is a good time to--cautiously--express wishes for new features. (I say "cautiously" because many people go way overboard on what they think is reasonable, desirable and possible. They are often wrong on all three, hence the locking of threads.)

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:12 am
by CarlRJ
Everything W. H. Heydt said is right on the money.

Don't expect anything this year except a revised Compute Module, and an A+ variant in the Pi 3 family, and don't hold your breath for either one of those. When speculating, keep in mind that the Foundations's goals revolve around education, and keeping the same price points so that the devices remain widely affordable (so add-ons need to work really hard to justify themselves).

And it's taking every ounce of my self-control to not play a lightning round of "thread lock bingo", with mentions of outlandish upgrades and free mythical beasts in specially marked packages. ;) I'm hoping others can show the same self-restraint.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:14 am
by Jessie
I would happily settle for die shrinks of what is available optimized for lower power consumption and heat. I know not all features shrink evenly with new process nodes, but if a new product came out with the same specs and better power consumption I would replace the two Pi I still use.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:20 am
by W. H. Heydt
CarlRJ wrote:...with mentions of outlandish upgrades ...
There is a thread just for that sort of speculation. It's here: viewtopic.php?f=62&t=155777

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:25 am
by W. H. Heydt
Jessie wrote:I would happily settle for die shrinks of what is available optimized for lower power consumption and heat. I know not all features shrink evenly with new process nodes, but if a new product came out with the same specs and better power consumption I would replace the two Pi I still use.
I am given to understand, by those who know from experience, that shrinking an existing design is about the same difficulty as making a new design for a chip. That said, with one exception I agree with you as to what would make a perfectly good "Pi4B". The exception is the one area in which I think the Pi could be improved now that we are using 4-core designs (and inherently faster cores) at higher clock speeds. That is: faster external I/O in the form of USB 3.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:17 am
by ejolson
daveyman123 wrote:I would love to see something capable of better video game emulation
In order to distinguish this thread from all the other threads about the future of Raspberry Pi, it would be interesting to know what video game emulators are working on Intel PC's that the current crop of Pi's don't have enough power to emulate. Maybe addition optimization at the software level would be enough.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:37 am
by DavidS
ejolson wrote:
daveyman123 wrote:I would love to see something capable of better video game emulation
In order to distinguish this thread from all the other threads about the future of Raspberry Pi, it would be interesting to know what video game emulators are working on Intel PC's that the current crop of Pi's don't have enough power to emulate. Maybe addition optimization at the software level would be enough.
+1. Or at least port more of them.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:29 am
by fruitoftheloom
daveyman123 wrote:I know its only been a few months since the release of the zero but..
is there any news on what the specs will be like for the raspberry pi 4?

I would love to see something capable of better video game emulation
a reset button would be nice also

what would you like to see in the RPi 4?
Been asked, been answered, been asked, been answered ad-infinitum.

RPT do not give out Roadmaps waste of speculation...

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:43 am
by DavidS
Lets simplify it. The things I would like to see for the RPi are:
1: Maybe a bit more RAM, maybe.
2: A bit faster single core ARMv7.
3: A good set of tutorials for programing the VideoCore IV, down to bare metal.
4: Completely opensource the firmware.
5: An official Broadcom accelerated video module for RISC OS.
6: PS/2 keyboard and mouse ports, real ones not USB converters.

And three of those are already possible without any new HW. The others are not overly difficult. I would expect that we will never see number 6.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 7:57 am
by nautilus27
I think if they want to improve upon the RPi3, they should look what they can do about these hardware limitations before adding a few Ghz faster processor or a few hundred Mibs of RAM. I'm no developer so I'm not aware whether this is viable in terms of cost or not.

The most important upgrade would be replacing that stupid bridge chip that confines both LAN and USB data traffic in the same bus and thus crippling both. One day I wanted to make a RPi based file server using Owncloud. My clients (up to 5 users simultaniously, realistically 2) needed to upload, download or watch some MP4 video files from the server. But the read/write speeds were so bad that I had to abondon the project altogether.

The sd card controller is also a huge limiting factor of I/O speed. Even the fastest card out there can't reach above 40MB/s sequential read speeds. (That is with overclock, I remind you) They could bring some eMMC awesomeness in 8 and 16 GB flavours. They are a lot faster and reliable.

After the aforementioned improvements, another GiG of RAM and a small bump in the CPU speed (up to 1.5Ghz) would be good. Because anything other than LXDE desktop is choking the CPU as of now. Try Ubuntu MATE on RPi 3 and you would understand what I mean.

I think the foundation might as well start adopting "new" technologies that has been around half a decade or so because it got cheaper to integrate them over the years. I'm talking about USB 3.0 and Gigabit Ethernet, well the latter is not that important but still a welcomed impovement. A faster wireless network option would be great as well, all nano wi-fi adapters come with 150Mbps support these days.

Let me tell you what they won't add: AC wi-fi, eSATA port, 4K video output. Because these are relatively new features and cost way more to implement.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:14 am
by fruitoftheloom
What I love about these type of threads is that most people do not understand what is involved in creating a product, but as long as I get a Free Unicorn, I will be more than happy..

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:22 am
by Heater
nautilus27,
...another GiG of RAM and a small bump in the CPU speed (up to 1.5Ghz) would be good. Because anything other than LXDE desktop is choking the CPU as of now. Try Ubuntu MATE on RPi 3 and you would understand what I mean.
Which is odd because the other day I installed the KDE Plasma Desktop onto my Pi 3 thinking it would be painfully slow.

I was surprised to find it is plenty fast enough and very usable.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:32 am
by mfa298
nautilus27 wrote:I think if they want to improve upon the RPi3, they should look what they can do about these hardware limitations before adding a few Ghz faster processor or a few hundred Mibs of RAM. I'm no developer so I'm not aware whether this is viable in terms of cost or not.

The most important upgrade would be replacing that stupid bridge chip that confines both LAN and USB data traffic in the same bus and thus crippling both. ...

After the aforementioned improvements, another GiG of RAM and a small bump in the CPU speed (up to 1.5Ghz) would be good. Because anything other than LXDE desktop is choking the CPU as of now. Try Ubuntu MATE on RPi 3 and you would understand what I mean.

I think the foundation might as well start adopting "new" technologies that has been around half a decade or so because it got cheaper to integrate them over the years. I'm talking about USB 3.0 and Gigabit Ethernet, well the latter is not that important but still a welcomed impovement.
The current hardware is limited by the videocore on the SoC which is what limits the Pi2/3 SoC to 1GB ram and a single USB2 port. The arm cores are just an add on to the SoC. Even introducing the likes of USB3 or more ram is a major change to the SoC.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:41 am
by fruitoftheloom
mfa298 wrote:The current hardware is limited by the videocore on the SoC which is what limits the Pi2/3 SoC to 1GB ram and a single USB2 port. The arm cores are just an add on to the SoC. Even introducing the likes of USB3 or more ram is a major change to the SoC.
Yes quite so, but remember everyone knows better than RPT, the wanters do not understand or want to understand VC4 and even if it is feasible to complete the VC5 project.

They just want all the features at whatever cost, even if it means that the RPF gets flushed down the toilet and consigned to the Computer Landmark History Footnote.

I want it now and do not see why you do not supply a OctaCore Raspberry Pi with eSATA, USB3, USB OTG, 128GB eMMC, 4K Graphics for $35.00

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:46 am
by Jednorozec
fruitoftheloom wrote:I want it now and do not see why you do not supply a OctaCore Raspberry Pi with eSATA, USB3, USB OTG, 128GB eMMC, 4K Graphics for $35.00
$35 is too much. I want all of the above plus a breeding pair of Unicorns for $3.50.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:04 am
by bensimmo
fruitoftheloom wrote:
mfa298 wrote:The current hardware is limited by the videocore on the SoC which is what limits the Pi2/3 SoC to 1GB ram and a single USB2 port. The arm cores are just an add on to the SoC. Even introducing the likes of USB3 or more ram is a major change to the SoC.
Yes quite so, but remember everyone knows better than RPT, the wanters do not understand or want to understand VC4 and even if it is feasible to complete the VC5 project.

They just want all the features at whatever cost, even if it means that the RPF gets flushed down the toilet and consigned to the Computer Landmark History Footnote.

I want it now and do not see why you do not supply a OctaCore Raspberry Pi with eSATA, USB3, USB OTG, 128GB eMMC, 4K Graphics for $35.00

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
And a touch screen for an extra fiver all in a nice compact case, please
An RPI Tablet as such with all the gpio ports. I'd be happy then.


I'd be happy with reduced power consumption and a better BT/WiFi/UART implementation.

Re: raspberry pi 4

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:18 am
by texy
I think we will stop there :roll: