fanoush
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:42 am

jamesh wrote: There is a huge difference between sending a Pi, personally, to an acquaintance, and sending from a company to an anonymous individual.

Most acquaintances don't try to rip each other off, whereas individuals ripping off companies is more likely.
Well the acceptable theory could be that they don't ship there because the postal service in such country is not reliable enough. In such case any package will get lost, there should be no difference.

You can't seriously suggest they would discriminate whole country as a 'country of thieves'. Such discrimination by nationality would be very unfortunate (and illegal).

surfparadise
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:03 pm

The problem is not the postal service.
I received more or less 100 packages untracked from china to barcelona (only 1 lost).
The problem is the people. There are some persons in Italy/Spain that once the untracked package arrive, they declare that it is lost, and ask a refund.
There are no problem with tracked packages of course...

The solution is not provide a refund for untracked packages but offer the possibility to choose this cheap shipment.
The pi zero could be shipped as envelope, not package.... So the shipment costs could be 1£ or 2£ max.

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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:30 pm

surfparadise wrote:The problem is not the postal service.
I received more or less 100 packages untracked from china to barcelona (only 1 lost).
The problem is the people. There are some persons in Italy/Spain that once the untracked package arrive, they declare that it is lost, and ask a refund.
There are no problem with tracked packages of course...

The solution is not provide a refund for untracked packages but offer the possibility to choose this cheap shipment.
The pi zero could be shipped as envelope, not package.... So the shipment costs could be 1£ or 2£ max.

Even shipping a zero within the UK as 2nd class will cost £0.75. The cost from the UK to Europe is £2.40 economy airmail.

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surfparadise
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:56 pm

Deal!

I buy 2 please!

2.4£ it's ok for me!

It's easy, isn't it?

jamesh
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:28 pm

surfparadise wrote:Deal!

I buy 2 please!

2.4£ it's ok for me!

It's easy, isn't it?
Hypothetically, then you claim it didn't arrive, and claim the money back from Pimoroni or Pihut or whoever under European distance selling regulations. Even without those, you then go on social media, slagging off the supplier as not sending you the article and then refusing a refund; the supplier gets a load of bad press and lose money.

The only way round the problem is tracked deliveries. Which is what people like Pimoroni and Pihut offer.

Anything else is asking for trouble, and with the limited profit margins on the Zero there is no possibility of 'just taking the hit' without losing money.
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Massi
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:35 pm

jamesh wrote: Hypothetically, then you claim it didn't arrive, and claim the money back from Pimoroni or Pihut or whoever under European distance selling regulations. Even without those, you then go on social media, slagging off the supplier as not sending you the article and then refusing a refund; the supplier gets a load of bad press and lose money.
And we have to remember that this is possible (or better, everyone do this!) only in italy and spain
:lol:
The only way round the problem is racked deliveries. Which is what people like Pimoroni and Pihut offer.
last time this "issue" was discussed, i was also told that "people (in italy and spain) receive packages and then deny they signed for it"
:lol:

isn't it better to simply stop talking about this?
I hope this ridiculous politic will end with the GA of zeros..

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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:50 pm

yes
1) find out from the foundation how to become a registered supplier of PI0
2) do so
3) supply RPi0 locally
4) profit

please stop before I report it
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Massi
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:21 pm

RaTTuS wrote:please stop before I report it
feel free to report my post to who you consider appropriate.
I'm taking the responsability for what i wrote, if i wrote anything offensive for people of some specific country.
Oh, wait, it wasn't me

as said, this has already been discussed and this sort of.. "racism".. has already shown itself.
This is a useless discussion, in italy we are all thiefs and we only have to wait for the 1-zero-limit to end to lower the shipment cost for unit.

Over.

(i had to buy my Zero on the other side of the French frontier. Curiously, i was no longer a thief on the other side.)

Heater
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 3:45 pm

Massi,
... this sort of.. "racism".. has already shown itself.
That is totally unfounded and uncalled for.
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ajlenze
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:05 pm

I predict that when the one-per-customer limit is eliminated, there will "suddenly" be another shortage, and this shortage will make the after release shortage look like no big deal. For instance, Adafruit has free shipping on $200, and I'm sure many would order 40 pi zeros if they could. I'm sure the foundation is aware of this, but the only solution is more/faster production, and I'm not sure that's an option right now.

surfparadise
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:15 pm

I'd like to think that the majority of people are honest (in italy as in England as in Australia etc etc) and a lot of person speak for 'cliché '. I buy a lot of from china with untracked method (free and slow...1 month min.) ...and I don't think that chinese sellers lose money sending to Italy or Spain....

fanoush
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:28 pm

ajlenze wrote:I predict that when the one-per-customer limit is eliminated, there will "suddenly" be another shortage, and this shortage will make the after release shortage look like no big deal.
Like I already suggested this could be solved by selling another item (Zero twinpack for a start) and allocating only some part of stock to it (half?) and stil have one per customer limit for both such items. Yo can tune the stock alocation and multipack item quantity according to demand/stock.

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alexeames
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:29 pm

surfparadise wrote:I'd like to think that the majority of people are honest (in italy as in England as in Australia etc etc) and a lot of person speak for 'cliché '. I buy a lot of from china with untracked method (free and slow...1 month min.) ...and I don't think that chinese sellers lose money sending to Italy or Spain....
The thing is, both Pimoroni and ThePiHut are businesses. They both got started in Pi stuff about 3.5-4 years ago and have both, independently come to the conclusion - through hard-learned lessons - that shipping regular mail to certain countries is more risky than it is worth to them.

It is absolutely their right to make that judgment call based on their own experience. Both of those businesses send out thousands of items per month. So it is likely they have shipped enough items to have spotted trends. This is nothing to do with gossip and hearsay or cliché. It's decisions made on the basis of experience.

Personally, I've only shipped a few thousand items in the last 12 months. Off the top of my head, I think only about three have gone missing. One was Spain, one was Poland and the other I can't remember. When it comes to damaged shipments though, Germany tops the league.

You only have to get stiffed a few times before you take steps to prevent it happening again. That's just commercial reality. You may not like it, but it's unlikely to change no matter how hard you whinge in here. :D
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surfparadise
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:57 pm

I agree with you Alex. (And I love your blog)

I'm only saying that these companies can introduce a regular mail option with the advice to not refund it in case of lost/damage ítem etc etc....

jamesh
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Re: Zero pi in Italy/Spain

Fri Aug 05, 2016 8:51 am

surfparadise wrote:I agree with you Alex. (And I love your blog)

I'm only saying that these companies can introduce a regular mail option with the advice to not refund it in case of lost/damage ítem etc etc....
They cannot do that, European distance selling regulations I think mean they have to refund. (and of course, as I said above, there is also the social media bad review aspect to look at).

As Alex says, it's a business decision. Think about it - the suppliers WANT to sell you stuff. That's what makes them money. They are not thinking "I bloody hate people from <insert country here> so I am not going to supply to them". It's not racism, it's business, and if they could find a way round it they would. But the only way they have found is tracked parcels, which cost. If it was as simple as 'no refunds on untracked', don't you think they would have done it by now?
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