mattmiller
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Information and Customer Respect

Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:59 am

I don't know about anyone else but I simply don't believe anymore that not giving out some sort of reliable information on stuff like A+ availability is being done for commercial reasons.

Is it too much trouble/really breaches a massive commercial secret for RaspberryPi to start treating customers with a better level of information?

If this post is deemed wrong then please just delete it without resorting to a "let then eat cake" type comment please - treat us with some respect please

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bensimmo
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:13 am

I think the problem is, they do not make them ?
So it would be down to the people actually putting orders in (RS and Farnell for all Pis apart from the Zero iirc and maybe the addons?) to make them at the moment to work it out and give the information correctly.
I guess they don't need/want anymore capacity (or not willing to pay for it from elsewhere) to increase production.
etc...

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:04 am

While I share your frustration over the availability of the A+ (specifically, the A+512MB, which I've had on order since launch on 19 April), beating on the RPF won't do anything to alleviate the pain. You need to contact Premier-Farnell (or their local affiliate) or RS Components (ditto) and ask when the boards will be in. If you want to follow that up with complaints to them, go right ahead. It won't affect the supply, but you might feel better.

It has come out in the last couple of days that some suppliers in the UK have A+512MB boards in, while the US suppliers don't. Indeed, MCM seems to be confused about when they're expecting them in. On the index page when you search on "Pi A+" it says "21 days", but on the specific item page linked from the index, it says "75 days".

IF you really need an A+ as soon as possible, try ordering from one of the UK suppliers that has them in stock.

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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:42 am

mattmiller wrote:Is it too much trouble/really breaches a massive commercial secret for RaspberryPi to start treating customers with a better level of information?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

If you don't keep new products secret until general availability you'll shoot your company dead. The RPF got their fingers burned with the "official" RPF 7" display will was desperately late (nearly three years from announcement to availability). If you don't shoot the company dead you end up looking like a right "bunch of Charlies [1]" when you fail to deliver.


[1] http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dict ... sh/charlie
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:32 am

http://cpc.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/ras ... dp/SC14138 489 in stock
my betting is as they use the same SOC as the Pi0 , and the same factory space as the PI3
it is all a matter of space + time + logistics ... and getting the right ones built at the right time.

Model A+ production is not done by the Foundation but by Sony Pencoed.... for both RS and Farnell.
there may be some made in the PRC but WCT ?
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:47 am

Model A+ production is not done by the Foundation but by Sony Pencoed.... for both RS and Farnell.
there may be some made in the PRC but WCT ?
My last batch of A+ from farnell UK were all made in china (PRC)
This was a few months ago just before the stock drought.
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:54 am

I'll see if I can prod the RPF to release some information, but I suspect the demand for the Zero has completely knackered the production runs for the A+ (as above, they use the same SoC, and they can only be made at a particular rate). Since the information on production is actually RS/Farnells, the RPF may not be legally allowed to release anything anyway. They also have minimal influence over production quantities as they licence the design to RS/Farnell. The Zero is the only board they actually make themselves.
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:23 am

mikerr wrote:
Model A+ production is not done by the Foundation but by Sony Pencoed.... for both RS and Farnell.
there may be some made in the PRC but WCT ?
My last batch of A+ from farnell UK were all made in china (PRC)
This was a few months ago just before the stock drought.
the current stock at CPC says made in China

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bensimmo
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:41 am

jamesh wrote:I'll see if I can prod the RPF to release some information, but I suspect the demand for the Zero has completely knackered the production runs for the A+ (as above, they use the same SoC, and they can only be made at a particular rate). Since the information on production is actually RS/Farnells, the RPF may not be legally allowed to release anything anyway. They also have minimal influence over production quantities as they licence the design to RS/Farnell. The Zero is the only board they actually make themselves.
Who 'makes' the Camera & SenseHAT

'makes' as in; puts the order in for them to be produced.

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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:20 am

bensimmo wrote:
jamesh wrote:I'll see if I can prod the RPF to release some information, but I suspect the demand for the Zero has completely knackered the production runs for the A+ (as above, they use the same SoC, and they can only be made at a particular rate). Since the information on production is actually RS/Farnells, the RPF may not be legally allowed to release anything anyway. They also have minimal influence over production quantities as they licence the design to RS/Farnell. The Zero is the only board they actually make themselves.
Who 'makes' the Camera & SenseHAT

'makes' as in; puts the order in for them to be produced.
I was talking specifically about SBC's (ie, devices with the SoC on them), not ancillaries. As for the second point, yes, puts the order in, but also PAYS for the order. (Just like Apple, Google etc, who do not have their own manufacturing capacity)
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bensimmo
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:31 am

jamesh wrote:
bensimmo wrote:
jamesh wrote:I'll see if I can prod the RPF to release some information, but I suspect the demand for the Zero has completely knackered the production runs for the A+ (as above, they use the same SoC, and they can only be made at a particular rate). Since the information on production is actually RS/Farnells, the RPF may not be legally allowed to release anything anyway. They also have minimal influence over production quantities as they licence the design to RS/Farnell. The Zero is the only board they actually make themselves.
Who 'makes' the Camera & SenseHAT

'makes' as in; puts the order in for them to be produced.
I was talking specifically about SBC's (ie, devices with the SoC on them), not ancillaries. As for the second point, yes, puts the order in, but also PAYS for the order. (Just like Apple, Google etc, who do not have their own manufacturing capacity)
I was just curious who orders them to be made. RPF, RS, Farnell or somebody else.

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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:21 pm

bensimmo wrote:
jamesh wrote:
bensimmo wrote: Who 'makes' the Camera & SenseHAT

'makes' as in; puts the order in for them to be produced.
I was talking specifically about SBC's (ie, devices with the SoC on them), not ancillaries. As for the second point, yes, puts the order in, but also PAYS for the order. (Just like Apple, Google etc, who do not have their own manufacturing capacity)
I was just curious who orders them to be made. RPF, RS, Farnell or somebody else.
Ah, Ok, I dunno specifics.
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Heater
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:54 pm

What's all this "customer respect" thing?

Do you want the same level of respect as you get from MS, Oracle, many other software and hardware providers? God forbid the Raspi Foundation gets anywhere close to that level of customer abuse and manipulation.
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:41 pm

RaTTuS wrote:http://cpc.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/ras ... dp/SC14138 489 in stock
my betting is as they use the same SOC as the Pi0 , and the same factory space as the PI3
it is all a matter of space + time + logistics ... and getting the right ones built at the right time.

Model A+ production is not done by the Foundation but by Sony Pencoed.... for both RS and Farnell.
there may be some made in the PRC but WCT ?
Yes, the Model A+ uses the same BCM2835 as the Pi Zero, CM, and Model B+. At some point--officially "later this year", but probably early next year--there will be a Pi3A that will use the BCM2837 that is found on the Pi3B. Between then and now, there is supposed to be a CM3 that uses the BCM2837.

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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 4:54 pm

Goodness me, if I had £1 for every time the Osbourne effect was mentioned on this board I think I could retire.

Of course, it could be because the official display just isn't much good when compared to the competition?
DougieLawson wrote:
mattmiller wrote:Is it too much trouble/really breaches a massive commercial secret for RaspberryPi to start treating customers with a better level of information?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

If you don't keep new products secret until general availability you'll shoot your company dead. The RPF got their fingers burned with the "official" RPF 7" display will was desperately late (nearly three years from announcement to availability). If you don't shoot the company dead you end up looking like a right "bunch of Charlies [1]" when you fail to deliver.


[1] http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dict ... sh/charlie

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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:17 pm

Napier wrote:Of course, it could be because the official display just isn't much good when compared to the competition?
What leads you to that conclusion? It was delivered late. Presumably there was a problem with some aspect of the original design -- EMC, component supply, reliability, manufacturability or whatever (I'm not aware of any authoritative statements, and wouldn't expect any). That does not imply that the final product is inferior to its competition. Mine is entirely satisfactory, though I don't have the budget (or need) to compare it with other 7" touchscreens.
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Napier wrote:Goodness me, if I had £1 for every time the Osbourne effect was mentioned on this board I think I could retire.

Of course, it could be because the official display just isn't much good when compared to the competition?
DougieLawson wrote:
mattmiller wrote:Is it too much trouble/really breaches a massive commercial secret for RaspberryPi to start treating customers with a better level of information?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

If you don't keep new products secret until general availability you'll shoot your company dead. The RPF got their fingers burned with the "official" RPF 7" display will was desperately late (nearly three years from announcement to availability). If you don't shoot the company dead you end up looking like a right "bunch of Charlies [1]" when you fail to deliver.


[1] http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dict ... sh/charlie
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:43 pm

As an aside, http://whereismypizero.com/ has gone nuts and thinks everyone has the zeros in stock.

gordon77
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:03 pm

stderr wrote:As an aside, http://whereismypizero.com/ has gone nuts and thinks everyone has the zeros in stock.
Wow! Most do :)

ejolson
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:48 pm

DougieLawson wrote:If you don't keep new products secret until general availability you'll shoot your company dead.
Lots of successful tech companies produce product road maps including IBM, Intel and Oracle. Lack of a planned upgrade path can hurt sales of current hardware. For example, the development of EV8 was cancelled by Compaq after acquiring DEC and sales of EV7 based systems plummeted, even though the current hardware was still years ahead of anything Intel or IBM would produce.

Individual buyers who view the Pi as a toy for children to learn programming don't care whether it has an upgrade path or not. School systems and corporate partners may need official product road maps to justify investment of time, expertise and money.

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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:39 pm

Those companies have thousands of workers and almost unlimited access to money.

Slightly different for those guys!

If the RPF announces a roadmap, they cannot get a load of people to work on product that is late for some reason.

If the RPF announces, right now, an Octocore 2GB device with SATA and gig ethernet, for sale in 1 years time, how do you think sales of the current device would go? Up or down? My guess, down, which means less money to develop the announced device, less money for education, which means longer dev times, which means less income which means a dead RPF. A big company could simply throw more people at the new product, get it out on time, or sooner, meaning they stay in business.

A small company is much more exposed to the Osbourne effect than a large one.

We could of course, also invoke the Nokia Burning Bridges effect. One statement from the CEO that broke a very large company. Or Gerald Ratner's rather foolish statements about his jewelry. Even big companies can fail through foolish statements.
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:50 pm

What's the effect called when you do launch a new, unheralded item but then can't fulfil demand for several months?

Even though your previous product had been a worldwide success? :D

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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:53 pm

Napier wrote:What's the effect called when you do launch a new, unheralded item but then can't fulfil demand for several months?

Even though your previous product had been a worldwide success? :D
The Raspberry Pi Effect.
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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:53 pm

Napier wrote:What's the effect called when you do launch a new, unheralded item but then can't fulfil demand for several months?

Even though your previous product had been a worldwide success? :D
Caution. :lol:

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Re: Information and Customer Respect

Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:59 pm

ejolson,
Lots of successful tech companies produce product road maps including IBM, Intel and Oracle.
Road maps are not worth the paper they are written on.

Let's take Intel as an example:

1) The iAPX 432 was the road map back in 1981. That went nowhere and was finally discontinued in 1986.

2) The i860 was the road map in 1989. That went nowhere and was finally canned in the mid 1990's

3) Itanium. Well, that's recent enough that I need not say more.

Meanwhile, the 64 bit x86 architecture we all use today was totally off their road map. Until AMD introduced it and it became a big hit.

What about IBM?

MCA ring a bell?
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