dabonetn
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:55 pm

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:44 am

I've tried this on both my pi3's and both only see 128meg of ram with the BRANCH=next kernel.

Currently usb booting does boot, but is leaving us with barely usable machines.. 1/8 the memory... not a good trade for usb booting.

One of my pi3's was bought from mcm electronics on launch day, and the other I just received from canakit yesterday.

Later,
dabone

CaptManiac
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:55 pm

Just a general notice to others looking into this USB booting. Once I forced another BRANCH=next rpi-update everything worked perfectly (using a SanDisk Ultra Fit USB 3.0 Flash Drive, 64 GB). I'm using my RPi3 normally without any need for an SD card. Further, other distributions besides Raspbian have also worked for me, including RetroPie and Ubuntu-MATE. I am not seeing any issues with memory, as 'free' shows over 432K free, on Ubuntu-MATE.

Thanks to the developers!

dabonetn
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:55 pm

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:58 pm

Ok, just to clarify my testing.

Installing the Next branch using a new copy of raspian results in 128M total ram booting from either sd card or usb.

""'free' shows over 432K free""

423k free is a very tiny amount of free ram.

What does free -m show?

Here's mine in meg on a standard install with 256M Gpu Memory.
The total Ram shows 128 with I used the next branch.

total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 735 176 558 5 18 94

dabonetn
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:55 pm

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:02 pm

Ok, I went home and tried again.

Current raspbian Jessie dated 2016-05-27

I booted the fresh copy on sd, then ran raspi-config and made the following changes.
B2 - "Text console, automatically logged in as 'pi' user"

I3 - I changed keymap to US.
I4 - I changed Wifi Country to US.

I then rebooted and ran free -m

Before

total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 925 196 729 6 9 145
-/+ buffers/cache: 41 884
Swap: 99 0 99

Then I ran

sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get install rpi-update
(rpi-update was already installed)

and then

sudo BRANCH=next rpi-update

It then installed the new kernel and request I reboot. After rebooting, and running free -m again, these are the results.
Something is wrong........

After

total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 117 84 33 4 7 41
-/+ buffers/cache: 35 81
Swap: 99 0 99

CaptManiac
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:02 am

I wouldn't say 432K is a very tiny amount - it 43.2% of the total memory! Anyway, again that's running Ubuntu-MATE, a very graphical intensive and memory-hogging OS, plus I was also running variety, a python script to change backgrounds that was also using up a lot of memory.

Currently this is what 'free -m' shows for me:

total used free shared buff/cache available
Mem: 925 491 190 12 242 392
Swap: 999 120 879

Note my swap is a 1 GB partition.

Good luck!

asandford
Posts: 1998
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:54 pm
Location: Waterlooville

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:40 am

CaptManiac wrote:I wouldn't say 432K is a very tiny amount - it 43.2% of the total memory!
432MB would be about 43.2% of 1GB RAM, and 1024 times the size of 432KB (which is less than half a megabyte).

CaptManiac
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:24 pm

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Fri Aug 26, 2016 12:46 am

My bad; you are correct. I meant 432 MB free.

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 38830
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:05 am

There's an unresolved bug in USB booting that means your RPi3 doesn't get the full 1GB of memory available. The RPF folks are aware of it.

I'm going to have some play time on Monday (Bank Hol in the UK) when I'm back from Australia to see if I can find a work-around for it (with some of the config.txt settings). It left my RPi3 (that I brought on hols) with not enough RAM to be useful, so it's back on an SDCard until I get home.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

peterlite
Posts: 720
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2016 4:00 am

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Fri Aug 26, 2016 2:47 am

Will booting from an external device possibly improve file system corruption issues currently experienced using an SD card when power is interrupted?
One fault in Linux is the delayed write problem. You will always have corruption due to delayed writes. Ext4 and NTFS have journalling to ensure file index entries are correct. The delayed write will still damage file contents.

You can reduce the write delay. There are other threads covering the change. Once a write is started, on any device, a faster device will increase the chance of the write being completed before the power drops. My fastest microSD card has a better random write speed than my older magnetic disks and SSDs.

masterluke
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:40 pm

Is there any update on this? Is USB boot ready to use without memory or wifi issues on Pi3's?

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 38830
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:14 pm

masterluke wrote:Is there any update on this? Is USB boot ready to use without memory or wifi issues on Pi3's?
The memory issue is fixed. Run sudo BRANCH=next rpi-update to get the new bootcode. Don't know squat about any WiFi issues. The onboard WiFi on my RPi3B is working perfectly.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

malvcr
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:31 am

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:42 pm

I noticed a new version in the next branch (Aug 30th), so I made a new test today.

Memory issue : fixed.

5 boots ... zero problem
1 boot ... colored frozen screen
1 boot ... zero problem

Is there something in the RPI3 (the machine itself) that becomes unstable after some continuous reboots?

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 38830
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Thu Sep 01, 2016 5:08 pm

The most common problem with RPi3s is folks trying to run them with weedy power supplies or weedy cables between their power supply and their RPi. Then complaining that they're not getting consistent results.

Boot from a SDCard and compare your results.

Re-copy the contents of your SDCard (updated with the latest BRANCH=next rpi-update) back to your USB device.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

timrowledge
Posts: 1345
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:12 pm
Location: Vancouver Island
Contact: Website

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:35 pm

I've just updated my usb disc setup wit the latest stuff and can confirm that it seems to fix the limited memory issue for me. I had lot of trouble getting it to boot though and it seems like maybe once in three tries it will work. It took fiddling and many tries to get it to boot and then connect via xrdp.

It's not a weak PSU either; I have a 60W Anker usb supply with nice heavy conductor 12" usb cables, and the disc (actually both of the ones I tried) are self-powered anyway.

So I'd say we are doing much better but could do more.

For people wanting to make a nice desktop setup with SSD etc this might be good time to look at http://www.suptronics.com/miniPCkits/x3000.html - seems like a nice power management board, SATA interface etc so you can stick in an mSATA SSD card, a built in fan for those warm Pi3's, and an SPDIF audio out. I've had several of their add-ons for a year or more now and they do their job well.
Making Smalltalk on ARM since 1986; making your Scratch better since 2012

malvcr
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:31 am

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:16 am

About weak power sources.

I am using a 2.5A dedicated Canakit adaptor (I have around 7 of them and other power options and all my RPI machines work according with their specifications). When booting from the SSD disk on the RPI3 modified to boot from USB, I have mixed results.

When booting from the SD card on the same machine (with normal /boot partition there), 100% of the time it works, using the same adaptor.

Conclusion 1: Power supply it is not the issue.

In any moment the system boots, the SSD works without any issue for days, so this is not about the SSD or even the USB bridge.

Conclusion 2: The SSD works without any issue.

The general conclusion here is that booting from a SSD disk on the USB it is not ready for production, although it have been improving all these weeks (I know it is not easy task to do that). However, to boot from the SD with the root on the SSD has rock solid behaviour (after around 4.4.13).

One question: could be possible to have a "debug" version of the "next" boot programs? We could be more useful if instead of just looking at a nice color screen we could see some messages there.

asandford
Posts: 1998
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:54 pm
Location: Waterlooville

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:27 am

Does the latest bootcode fix / add anything to the 'pxe' boot or is it just disk boot fixes?

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 38830
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:05 am

asandford wrote:Does the latest bootcode fix / add anything to the 'pxe' boot or is it just disk boot fixes?
I don't know, I'm thinking about trying the PXE boot this weekend.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

User avatar
johnb_summers
Posts: 285
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:48 pm
Location: Bushey UK

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Sat Sep 03, 2016 11:59 am

so SD cards are a problem? jessy by chance, never noticed a thing with wheezy, but I was new to it then, just noticed the huge change in the SD cards blowing when I updated all my Pi's to jessy. did jessy r/w more to the cards than wheezy?
MyPi Developer
http://mypiworld.com/
http://mypi.tech/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US2nyRgg-SY&nohtml5=False

gordon77
Posts: 4986
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:12 pm

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:20 pm

I finally got it to boot from the usb but if l then plug an Sd card, in an adaptor, into another usb slot file manager sees the card but l can't see the card in the tree, is this normal?

User avatar
DougieLawson
Posts: 38830
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:19 pm
Location: A small cave in deepest darkest Basingstoke, UK
Contact: Website Twitter

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:22 pm

I got PXE working today. The tftp, bootp and dhcp server is running a my RPi B+. The root filesystem is on my home NAS.

I'm using a funky command line to give my RPi a static IP address and the rootfs needs to be mounted as rw (by adding "rw" to the end of the cmdline.txt). Other than that it's quite interesting to boot a machine that doesn't have a floppy, cd-rom or any USB storage device connected to it.
Note: Any requirement to use a crystal ball or mind reading will result in me ignoring your question.

Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.
All non-medical doctors are on my foes list.

chas123
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:32 am

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:57 am

I have been experimenting with the usb boot for a few days now. Initially I had the same problems as mentioned by other members above. I have an ssd hooked up which booted or failed to boot randomly until I took the advice from Dougie regarding power supplies. Although my power supply is rated at 5v 5amps obviously the usb power from the pi is a maximum 1amp. After reconnecting the ssd through a separately powered usb hub I now get no failures whatsoever. I then read somewhere on the internet that the 5volt pins 2 and 4 supply 5volts at full current minus whatever the pie is using so I reconnected the ssd directly to the pi usb and connected the extra power cable from the ssd to the 5v (pin4) and ground (pin6) therefore eliminating the need for the independently powered hub. This also works a treat, has never failed to boot, seems very robust, no sd card read issues, no wifi problems etc. I am now dual booting from the ssd with Raspbian and a Raspbian image with KDE Plasma desktop. No issues at all and has never failed since.
Hope this info helps.

Chas123

malvcr
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:31 am

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:04 pm

Interesting finding, Chas123.

Let me see, you used a 5A power adaptor (twice the recommended capacity for the RPI). Although I don't have so powerful adaptor per port at hand, I made another test with 12A power adaptor (this provides 2A on each of its 6 USB ports). The same result as before. Then, I put a 2A powered USB hub "for power" ... it worked once and that's all ... no more. But when booting on the USB hub, I noticed the color square on the upper right side. Even I had problems connecting only the USB disk on the hub and providing a 2.5A independent power supply to the RPI3. As usual, the machine works flawlessly booting from a SD card having the root partition on the SSD.

Some time ago I had some configuration where I put my root partition on an external hard disk and a SSD, and always the RPI corrupted the disks because the machine disabled the power on the USB ports just before the last flush on the external disks was performed. That was fixed with an external USB hub (in fact, that was the only difference). I am talking about different RPI2 and RPI3 machines (I made many tests), and different (although equivalent) power supplies that the ones I am using for the USB boot tests.

It seems that some of the following issues are happening:

1) 2.5 Amps is not enough for booting the RPI3 from a USB external disk connected only to the RPI3 (and 2Amps is even worse). But that power is enough to keep the external USB disk working without issues when the booting process is complete.

2) The way the USB ports on the RPI3 manages the power is not completely compatible with power demanding external devices as a Hard Disk or SSD. Could be possible that not always the needed power is at hand in the precise moment the external disk needs it.

3) -- according with your tests -- the 5V offered on the 2 and 4 pins is stable enough for having complete booting on RPI3 machines.


Marco

chas123
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:32 am

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:51 pm

In answer to your reply:
1. You could hook up a 5v 20amp supply to the pi If one was available - it will only draw the current it needs to operate.
2. I believe that the max power supplied to the usb ports is just over 1 amp shared by the ports. So If you insert a device into one of the ports and it demands 0.25 amp, there will only be just over 0.75 amp left between the remaining unused ports.
3. My usb cable to the drive caddy has an extra USB plug to provide alternative USB power (this is connected to pins 4 and 8 on the pi).
4.I can endlessly boot up and shutdown the pi with no failures whatsoever.

User avatar
davidcoton
Posts: 4898
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:37 pm
Location: Cambridge, UK
Contact: Website

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:22 pm

chas123 wrote:In answer to your reply:
1. You could hook up a 5v 20amp supply to the pi If one was available - it will only draw the current it needs to operate.
2. I believe that the max power supplied to the usb ports is just over 1 amp shared by the ports. So If you insert a device into one of the ports and it demands 0.25 amp, there will only be just over 0.75 amp left between the remaining unused ports.
3. My usb cable to the drive caddy has an extra USB plug to provide alternative USB power (this is connected to pins 4 and 8 6 on the pi).
4.I can endlessly boot up and shutdown the pi with no failures whatsoever.
Fixed the pin number, as in your earlier post.
You are right that you can power the Pi with a supply capable of higher current. You are right that the 1.2A limit applies to the four USB sockets on a Pi3 (on older 4-port Pis the limit must be set in config.txt). But remember that power supplied out through the GPIO connector is still going through the polyfuse, so your total power draw is limited to 2.5A (continuous) -- the overload characteristic of a polyfuse is similar to a slow blow fuse, so it probably survives short term small overloads well, longer term overloads or short circuits are a different matter. If it works long term, you're fine -- but someone will find a power hungry drive and complain when the polyfuse cuts out :o
Signature retired

chas123
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:32 am

Re: USB boot now working on Pi3

Sun Sep 04, 2016 9:16 pm

Hi thanks for correcting the pin number.
My intention of the initial post was to clarify that usb boot works. It works on my setup and is flawless. The fact that i hooked up the external power from ssd to the pi power pins was based on the fact that i could do without causing damage. If you have a drive that uses more current then you need to supply the power via an externally powered hub.
Conclusion is that usb boot works or maybe I have a different pi than everyone else.
B.T.W shall not bother posting anymore. Thought I was helping but just get hastle.

Return to “General discussion”