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davidcoton
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:27 pm

Heater wrote:davidcoton,

Well, I think it's rude to ask people when you meet them, face to face, "How old are you?" and "What is you gender?"

On a forum like this, answering any technical question does not need that information. If we get into a discussion and they want to say such things that's another matter.

My "73 OM" thing was tongue in cheek. A reflection on the fact that such slang, shorthand and acronyms come and go all the time. If you are from the wrong place or the wrong time you have no chance to know what they mean.
I agree entirely. I just like the irony that you selected a particular slang example that is not gender neutral, while saying (correctly) that you don't need to know.
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kusti8
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:47 pm

FlexibleSigmoid wrote:
kusti8 wrote:+1

As long as the question is articulate it does not matter the users background.
That wasn't even the point I was trying to make. Forget it... Have fun storming the castle boys... (Joan's a man right?)
I was responding to a post saying the same thing. That's all.
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tausciam
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:59 pm

Heater wrote:tausciam,

You'd ask ASL? when you met someone

Well, how weird is that? Normally when I meet people I can have a good guess at their age and gender. And normally I have a good idea of our location.

On the otherhand meeting on the internet they have no need to know any of that.

73 OM
Well, in the early days of the internet and before that, in BBS days, you were identified only by a handle. So, the first question you'd ask when you met someone online was ASL? so you'd have SOME idea who you were actually speaking to. This was before all the privacy concerns and such. People would, at least, give first name, gender and city.

Of course, HAM radio bled into it a little bit and some people would keep track of all the locations of the people they had spoken to.

stderr
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:10 pm

tausciam wrote:Well, in the early days of the internet and before that, in BBS days, you were identified only by a handle.
On the internet, which was basically your connection to usenet at the time, that was why people signed up, you would generally be required to use your real name by your ISP. User login IDs and email addresses might also be formed from real names, either the first initial and the last name or the first name and the last initial or something like that. GEnie network, as I recall, liked the first initial and the last name. This *all* changed when AOL allowed its users to use nyms on usenet and to change them at will, having something like up to six active at any one time. This instantly made fraud not only possible but very easy. This was going into a culture where people would send personal checks to each other to buy things. It is true that BBS systems often used nyms and some time after AOL destroyed the internet, the use of nyms or fake names on usenet became common. But that's not how it was.

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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:43 pm

stderr wrote:
tausciam wrote:Well, in the early days of the internet and before that, in BBS days, you were identified only by a handle.
On the internet, which was basically your connection to usenet at the time, that was why people signed up, you would generally be required to use your real name by your ISP. User login IDs and email addresses might also be formed from real names, either the first initial and the last name or the first name and the last initial or something like that. GEnie network, as I recall, liked the first initial and the last name. This *all* changed when AOL allowed its users to use nyms on usenet and to change them at will, having something like up to six active at any one time. This instantly made fraud not only possible but very easy. This was going into a culture where people would send personal checks to each other to buy things. It is true that BBS systems often used nyms and some time after AOL destroyed the internet, the use of nyms or fake names on usenet became common. But that's not how it was.
Some of us have very old habits....

tausciam
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:49 pm

stderr wrote: On the internet, which was basically your connection to usenet at the time, that was why people signed up, you would generally be required to use your real name by your ISP.
I used usenet mainly back in the BBS days. By the time I got online, we gravitated towards EFNet and then Undernet..... where handles were the norm there as well. IIRC, the first ISP, Compuserve, did not use real names.

Here's a fun little tidbit too.... In the BBS days, I got my USENET and FIDOnet feeds from a 4 line PCBoard BBS in Birmingham, Alabama named America Online. The owner had, luckily, trademarked the name and they had to buy it from him when they started the America Online we all know today. He changed the name to The Matrix....again....years before the movies were even thought of

canyon
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:49 am

Just in case there is anybody out there who still doesn't know what ASL stands for, here is a list:
http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ASL.
Take your pick...

The only ones that I recognised are Above Sea Level and American Sign Language

jamesh
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:58 pm

Keep it polite people.

And as someone who has had a sigmoidoscopy, the more flexible the better.
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DougieLawson
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:15 pm

When it comes to Age, sex (gender) and location; the first two don't matter on a technical forum, we let young girls, ladies and older women play with our computers these days (it's no longer kept in the darkened basement and exclusively tended by the predominantly male operations department).

Sex or gender becomes a puzzle with the latest non-binary choices and it doesn't matter anyway.

For location, it would be interesting to force new subscribers to add their location to their profile (I don't mean setting 127.0.0.1, localhost or other banal noise and I don't expect lat/long to five decimal places) so we know where in the World they are, can guess their timezone and can find local component suppliers for the components they may need for their project.

So I'd decline the idea of ASL and plump for L only.

BTW, don't ban "poppycock & balderdash" it's a lot more polite than having folks use "b**ls**t" without the asterisks.
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tausciam
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Fri Jul 08, 2016 2:20 pm

No one is saying use ASL now. He said people under 30 wouldn't recognize it....precisely because it fell out of use when the dynamics of the internet changed.

Koeshi
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Mon Jul 11, 2016 11:38 am

tausciam wrote:No one is saying use ASL now. He said people under 30 wouldn't recognize it....precisely because it fell out of use when the dynamics of the internet changed.
It didn't really fall out of use, it just moved from forums to places like omegle.

ejolson
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:40 pm

Another first post locked. In the above example the post was apparently locked before the new member even had an opportunity to make a second post. If a first post has already been checked as spam for appropriateness, maybe it does not need locked immediately. While locking the thread avoided any discussion of ponies or unicorns, in my opinion it still appears unwelcoming to the new member who doesn't have an opportunity to make a second post.

Heater
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:02 pm

Quite a reasonable lockage.

It would be nice though if a reason for locking were given. Like "Sorry this has been discussed many times here before already". Else it's kind of heavy handed and rude.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:10 pm

Heater wrote:Quite a reasonable lockage.

It would be nice though if a reason for locking were given. Like "Sorry this has been discussed many times here before already". Else it's kind of heavy handed and rude.
Well...it does contain some explanation of why it was locked.

Heater
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:22 pm

Yes it does.

I can image how it might seem a bit curt to a newcomer asking an innocent question though.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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Burngate
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:46 pm

Since that post didn't appear to be from your standard noob, but rather from someone in industry, I don't think your standard "welcome" message is necessary - in fact a rather curt "Try researching before asking" would have sufficed in this case, and the mod was quite laid back.

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scruss
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:37 pm

jamesh wrote:Veterans … Try to consider what you were like as a beginner - would you be happy receiving what you are about to write? If not, DON'T write it.
Getting the balance of correctness without unkindness is always a struggle. Since the online world rewards speed and accuracy over sociability, online forums can be a tiring place to moderate, but fall apart without moderation.
Massi wrote:can we say that the level of "askers" is getting lower and lower?
Could just be confirmation bias. The more one learns, the less patience one tends to have with learners.
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SonOfAMotherlessGoat
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Sat Jul 16, 2016 6:02 pm

scruss wrote:Could just be confirmation bias. The more one learns, the less patience one tends to have with learners.
I don't think I agree with that. I think the more one learns, the more one understands the effort required to truly learn a topic, and the less one abides a "Do it for me, and do it now" demand. I see less "show me how" posts and more "just give me the answers" posts, and that just leads to posters asking repeatedly for others to do the work for them as they didn't take the time to learn the topic in the first place.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:29 am

SonOfAMotherlessGoat wrote:
scruss wrote:Could just be confirmation bias. The more one learns, the less patience one tends to have with learners.
I don't think I agree with that. I think the more one learns, the more one understands the effort required to truly learn a topic, and the less one abides a "Do it for me, and do it now" demand. I see less "show me how" posts and more "just give me the answers" posts, and that just leads to posters asking repeatedly for others to do the work for them as they didn't take the time to learn the topic in the first place.
Well...I just responded to a first post from someone asking if what he wanted to do would work (the short answer is "no"). He doesn't want to be told how, he just wants to know if it's feasible. So I told him several reasons why the answer is "no", then told him to go ahead and do what he wants to build because it'll be a learning experience.

Massi
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:20 am

scruss wrote:
Massi wrote:can we say that the level of "askers" is getting lower and lower?
Could just be confirmation bias. The more one learns, the less patience one tends to have with learners.
ok, we can say i'm a bad guy, but i never asked anything like this:
Asher100 wrote:I'm using Raspbian, I tried one that Made me edit a file and put in bash commands but it did not work, (sorry, it was a while ago so I've no idea what file it was) if you know any links you think should work to execute a python3 script ons startup I'd be gracious.
(the post before was "I have looked around but almost none of the solutions works.")

ejolson
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:10 pm

Massi wrote:ok, we can say i'm a bad guy, but i never asked anything like this
Asher100 wrote:I'm using Raspbian, I tried one that Made me edit a file and put in bash commands but it did not work, (sorry, it was a while ago so I've no idea what file it was) if you know any links you think should work to execute a python3 script ons startup I'd be gracious.
For reference, the above quotes come from this thread, which wasn't locked and in which the new member thanks the forum for the help as the last post. Except for one post in that thread as mentioned above, it could serve as a good example of how to welcome new members.

ejolson
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Fri Sep 02, 2016 5:02 am

Another new forum member with a post concerning ideas for new Pi features. The post states that a thread about ideas for new features could not be found so a new one is being started. This supports the idea of making a sticky thread rather than locking posts about new features.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:30 am

Nobody read the sticky posts, they sign-up, accept the email confirmation and start posting. They only read the stickies when someone tells them to read the stickies.

How many folks ever bothered to read viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7961 and that one is presented to you on a plate when you first sign up?
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johnb_summers
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:43 am

What puts my of is the quality of the software that runs this forum, if you type a reply and submit when someone else has submitted a reply this program crashes and you lose all that you typed, happen to me a lot and has really stopped me posting reply's.
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DougieLawson
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:04 am

johnb_summers wrote:What puts my of is the quality of the software that runs this forum, if you type a reply and submit when someone else has submitted a reply this program crashes and you lose all that you typed, happen to me a lot and has really stopped me posting reply's.
The [lack of] quality in phpBB3 isn't in dispute, we all know how bad, horrid and ugly it is. The reason folks run phpBB3 is because it has zero effort required to stand up a LAMP stack and get phpBB3 running (on day one when you're an unknown small board computer manufacturer with an, apparently, "simple" mission).

Nobody looks at the maintenance, the theming, the useless search engine, the number forums and subforums (or should that be fora?) and all the associated stuff you have to do to run a massive forum (when you're a small board computer manufacturer with 10 million units out there).

The foundation (Liz and others) keep promising us that "Raspberry Pi Forum 2.0" with all the badness removed and a better theme is coming, that project has stalled and is running even longer over schedule than the official display screen.
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Criticising any questions is banned on this forum.

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