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Pilosopong Tasyo
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:37 am

Heater wrote:We all have a duty to refute factually incorrect statements.
I agree with this. If it's an absolute factual error, then yes refute it. However, I'm more inclined to say it depends on the context/circumstance. I've been called out before, some veteran member called my advice as nonsense when it turned out my advice was exactly what worked for the user.

Given the facts and proper context, the advice holds true. Go on a tangent so far off that it is not even relevant to the original problem, the same advice can be considered an absolute nonsense.
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Heater
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:15 am

Very true. If one is refuting statements one has a duty to be absolutely sure of ones facts.

So, for example, pointing out that 2 plus 2 is not 5 is OK.

Stridently asserting that all programming languages whose names start with a "P" are rubbish, as I often do, is a bit subjective.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:09 am

Some interesting points, thanks all.

I'll try and update some of the things brought up above.

The forum revamp was underway, and then wasn't, but is still planned. There were, I beleive, problems with the company contracted to do it. Not sure what current progress is, but the mods were all asked what features would improve things, so hopefully the new stuff will be an improvement.

Poppycock and balderdash posts. I'm veering to instant delete of these. There are better ways of putting your point across without being rude or condescending.

General rudeness to new posts. If you see a post that you think is out of order, report it.

Veterans. I often see posts from people who have been here a long time that I think are bordering on the rude/condescending. From people who have commented in this thread. So, can I ask, please think before you post. Try to consider what you were like as a beginner - would you be happy receiving what you are about to write? If not, DON'T write it.
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Pithagoros
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:40 am

Thank goodness.

The poppycock and balderdash thing became trite a long time ago.

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hootie
Posts: 90
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:31 am

Just saw this... good post. I went through absolute "h""e"-double hockey sticks when I first came on here. But ya just got to have thick skin, and the biggest mistake is giving it back. That just fuels the fire. Over time I found myself thinking before I post something. There's a couple of bad apples on the board that are negative allot, but then their also really helpful allot. So the thick skin thing is important. The moderators ARE really good at keeping things under control. If you find yourself really upset, report the post vs responding. The moderators will handle it.

The knowledge on here is off the charts... it's worth what I call the hazing faze. lol

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liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 11:41 am

Not much to add - but I should point out that the five-year-old new poster DEFINITELY wasn't a genuine five-year-old. There were certain tells: language, typing ability, technical knowledge and more. Someone using the same account tried to justify the fact that the original post was pretty idiotic by pretending that a five-year-old relative had made it, and we left them to it because...life's too short.

We have met five-year-olds. They don't work like that.

That's by the bye. On the whole, this is a pretty nice place to hang out, but we COULD do better, and sadly, a lot of the snark comes from veteran posters. Please remember we were all newbies once; and that the person you think is behaving like a twelve-year-old could well be doing so because they are twelve.
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Koeshi
Posts: 228
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:26 pm

tausciam wrote:I'm a new member and didn't realize that, when you post or comment, it doesn't automatically subscribe you to that thread...... They really should do something about that.
I am going to agree with tausciam and say this took me off guard as well. I have used phpBB forums before that did auto subscribe users to threads that they posted in. Not necessarily e-mail notifications but automatically adding them to the user's watched list which is very useful.

As for how new people acted when they were newbies, I can remember when I joined my first forum (which is surprising) I went in acting like an arse without learning the ground and the other members shut me down in response as a result. I'd say I learnt from that a lot more than if people had treated me with kid gloves.

tausciam
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:53 pm

Koeshi wrote: I am going to agree with tausciam and say this took me off guard as well. I have used phpBB forums before that did auto subscribe users to threads that they posted in. Not necessarily e-mail notifications but automatically adding them to the user's watched list which is very useful.
Yep. It should automatically add you and give you a way to opt out....not the other way around. Almost every board out there, when you post something, it emails you replies. If I had just had a problem or question, I would have posted then figured since I didn't get any emails, I didn't get any replies.

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PeterO
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:13 pm

tausciam wrote: Yep. It should automatically add you and give you a way to opt out....not the other way around. Almost every board out there, when you post something, it emails you replies. If I had just had a problem or question, I would have posted then figured since I didn't get any emails, I didn't get any replies.
It might be OK if you mostly ask questions, but if you mostly reply to questions it is better the way it is.

PeterO
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6by9
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:22 pm

PeterO wrote:It might be OK if you mostly ask questions, but if you mostly reply to questions it is better the way it is.
The key word is "default". Anyone can change it for their own profile from User Control Panel / Board preferences / Edit Posting Defaults / Notify me on replies by default.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
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Pithagoros
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 5:15 pm

I have to say that personally speaking, I would not want emails for replies on threads by default. I would forget to switch it off and have to deal with the resulting spam.

I do use a lot of boards, and none of them, zero of them send emails to notify replies by default, thankfully.

It does seem to be an old fashioned way of doing it anyway, the newer board designs have notification captions that appear as a little badge number on the UI so when you log in you can instantly see all replies in a neat list when you click it.

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rpdom
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:19 pm

Pithagoros wrote:I have to say that personally speaking, I would not want emails for replies on threads by default. I would forget to switch it off and have to deal with the resulting spam.
But surely that "spam" would jog your memory and you would then go and switch it off?

I don't see that as being a showstopper, especially if the emails had something reminding you how to unsubscribe from notifications. (It's been so long since I had them turned on that I can't remember what the email contents were).

stderr
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:36 pm

Pithagoros wrote:It does seem to be an old fashioned way of doing it anyway, the newer board designs have notification captions that appear as a little badge number on the UI so when you log in you can instantly see all replies in a neat list when you click it.
The old fashioned way of doing it is to allow you to run your newsreader on the content and then read your new messages in the threads you like offline as you see fit, then later uploading them en masse as you see fit, using or not using scripts, as you see fit. The new way is to present everything as a web page, this is entirely due to it being possible to feed you a screen full of ads this way. In those cases where ads aren't an issue, I don't know why usenet newsreaders aren't being used.

Pithagoros
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:51 pm

rpdom wrote:
Pithagoros wrote:I have to say that personally speaking, I would not want emails for replies on threads by default. I would forget to switch it off and have to deal with the resulting spam.
But surely that "spam" would jog your memory and you would then go and switch it off?
Well I guess you could just as easily switch it on if it were off.

Anything that reduces the amount of unnecessary inbox spam and internet chaff is a good thing in my book.

FlexibleSigmoid
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:13 pm

stderr wrote:I don't know why usenet newsreaders aren't being used.
Because us FIDONet users won't make the upgrade. You can't take SLiMeR away from me!

stderr
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:27 pm

FlexibleSigmoid wrote:
stderr wrote:I don't know why usenet newsreaders aren't being used.
Because us FIDONet users won't make the upgrade. You can't take SLiMeR away from me!
The crazy thing is that all the way back in the 1990s certainly people had programs that downloaded their messages and then uploaded them when they were ready. It existed on the GEnie network with its Aladdin software or I'm sure CompuServe too. I'm not sure about AOL, I think they were the first to focus on being "on line" all the time you were doing something.

What we have now is such a step backwards that I don't know why people don't complain. It has to be that they just don't know how much better it is to run your own software and decide for yourself if you need an internet connection at that point or not.

FlexibleSigmoid
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:54 pm

stderr wrote:The crazy thing is that all the way back in the 1990s certainly people had programs that downloaded their messages and then uploaded them when they were ready. It existed on the GEnie network with its Aladdin software or I'm sure CompuServe too. I'm not sure about AOL, I think they were the first to focus on being "on line" all the time you were doing something.

What we have now is such a step backwards that I don't know why people don't complain. It has to be that they just don't know how much better it is to run your own software and decide for yourself if you need an internet connection at that point or not.
I think you had it exactly with the Always On Line part. When you had dial-up it was easier just to stage things and grab your messages, clear the one POTS line available so somebody picking up an extension didn't kill the connections and process at leisure. (I used to SysOP a Wildcat back in the day, but that was glorious at the time.)

Great memories though so thanks! Forte Agent and NewsLeecher before they turned on their customer base. But getting back to Fido, all of that was batch processed, we ran batch at night so all the messages were only processed once a day anyways.

Heater
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:07 pm

stderr,
It has to be that they just don't know how much better it is to run your own software and decide for yourself if you need an internet connection at that point or not.
I totally appreciate wanting to run software that is under my control That is why everything I do can be moved from cloud provider to cloud provider or hosted on my own servers if need be.

But, when does one not have an internet connection? On my recent travels around the world I find that internet connectivity is everywhere.

If it came to the point that I could not get on line I would be having much bigger problems than collating forums posts!
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

tausciam
Posts: 21
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Wed Jul 06, 2016 9:08 pm

stderr wrote: What we have now is such a step backwards that I don't know why people don't complain. It has to be that they just don't know how much better it is to run your own software and decide for yourself if you need an internet connection at that point or not.
I remember those days and that is nostalgia talking.... Those days were a ripe pain in the rear. Want to see a picture? Ok...spend 10 minutes downloading a bunch of garbled text, run uudecode on it and then....wait....that wasn't the picture you were looking for....ok, try again!

Want to look up some information? Try to gopher it....you may find it...probably won't..but at least you tried! Time to crack open the encyclopedias your parents paid a gajillion dollars for before man landed on the moon and hope the info isn't too outdated....and where was that piece of paper....the guy at radioshack wrote down a website for me....

Want to get in touch with a friend? Pick up the phone.....they're not on the net. (But wait until after 7pm when long distance doesn't cost an arm and a leg). They didn't answer? Oh well...try calling again tomorrow

Car broke down? Look in the seats for change so you can hitchhike to a pay phone.... and hope whoever picks you up doesn't cut you into a bunch of pieces.....or even two pieces would seriously ruin your day for that matter...

No....you can keep those days. I'm more than happy to be in the here and now.

ejolson
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:14 am

Heater wrote:But, when does one not have an internet connection?
Many airplanes don't have internet. Email is possible offline, but not forums. For me the website could be improved the most by making it more compatible with the original Pi computers. Offline access to the forum would also be nice. However, fears of ponies and unicorns make me hesitant to mention any feature that doesn't already exist.

emma1997
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:44 am

ejolson wrote: 4. The moderator locks the thread which the new member started.
5. The new member never posts again.
Isn't time to lock this thread LONG overdue? LOL
Last edited by emma1997 on Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

FlexibleSigmoid
Posts: 61
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:51 am

Nah, the horse is still breathing...

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:01 am

emma1997 wrote:
ejolson wrote: 4. The moderator locks the thread which the new member started.
5. The new member never posts again.
Isn't time to lock this thread LONG overdue? LOL
Probably not, so long as it stays civil and more or less on topic.

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:47 am

That. It's all interesting, mods are always on the lookout for ways to improve, and everyone is being sane on this thread. So far.
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davidcoton
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Re: Welcoming to new members

Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:03 am

Please accept this post in the spirit it is intended. :lol:

Jamesh is busy rounding up all the ponies and unicorns. He will train them into a cavalry brigade to support the mods by dealing with rogue veteran posters.
I'm not volunteering to be the first sacrificial victim. :evil:
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