Dave_F
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Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:07 pm

You know those cheap sets of three aluminium heatsinks that you can get from several Ebay vendors for £1? They seem to be an obvious choice for a Raspberry Pi 3 since I understand that the CPU can get fairly hot. I bought one and discovered that the adhesive is "3M 9448A Double Coated Tissue Tape 9448A" according to the print on the peel-off layer. This is NOT thermally conductive tape according to this: http://www.masstech.com.sg/pdf/9448A.pdf

According to that spec, it's acrylic, which is normally a fairly good thermal insulator. I expect that the people making those heatsinks got away with it previously because earlier Raspberry Pi's didn't really need a heatsink -- but might this now be a real problem for the Raspberry Pi 3? I don't know if these heatsinks would actually be worse than nothing or what the effect of that might be. Opinions?

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CarlRJ
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive

Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:44 pm

Haha! I had to read your headline twice for it to make sense. Yeah, with insulating tape, it'd make the heatsink just a pretty hat for the CPU, a decoration of sorts. Your suspicion that they were pretty much placebo for earlier Pi's sounds reasonable.

I've noticed that Adafruit (I expect some of the other official/semi-official Pi sellers do similar) sells several different heatsinks for the Pi, while pointing out, gently, that they're pretty much pointless for any Pi other than the Pi 3, and they did do a small bit of testing to show it actually has an effect. They also sell actual 3M "Heat Sink Thermal Tape".

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Douglas6
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive

Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:54 pm

And Lady Ada says that the Adafruit heatsinks use the same 3M thermal tape. Just shows to go you, buying the cheapest item on E-Bay; not always the best economic choice.

cubanrudeboy
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:08 pm

I bought a dual fan mounted to a heat sink and it came with this same 3M tissue tape. I have found that this dual fan sits just fine where it needs to be with no adhesion as the cord going to the gpio pins is quite short. Do I need a thermal conductive means of sticking it on or can i just set it there and call it a day?

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:23 pm

cubanrudeboy wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:08 pm
I bought a dual fan mounted to a heat sink and it came with this same 3M tissue tape. I have found that this dual fan sits just fine where it needs to be with no adhesion as the cord going to the gpio pins is quite short. Do I need a thermal conductive means of sticking it on or can i just set it there and call it a day?
Anything stuck to the SoC to dissipate heat needs thermally conductive adhesive. Just sitting something there is going to have little to no effect. However, a fan moving air over the SoC will help. I state things that way because the actual setup you describe isn't completely clear to me.

PiGraham
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:55 pm

Certainly thermally conductive adhesive tape is a more sensible choice, but tape (0.076mm thick) isn't going to be a thermally impenetrable barrier. Simple tests - does the heatsink get hot? does fitting the heat sink make a difference to CPU temperature?

QMESAR
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:19 pm

PiGraham wrote:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:55 pm
Certainly thermally conductive adhesive tape is a more sensible choice, but tape (0.076mm thick) isn't going to be a thermally impenetrable barrier. Simple tests - does the heatsink get hot? does fitting the heat sink make a difference to CPU temperature?
This was my thought too and then placed the PI with heat sink under my Fluke thermal camera ,The heat does get transferred from the chip into the heat sink :D

mlepage
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Sat Sep 30, 2017 4:31 pm

The "tape" I've seen used is a kind of light blue, more like semi-solid. It's expensive, but it's the correct "tape" to use. It looks like two-side tape, thinner, but it's more like a gunky thick foam. Do not use regular tape that is not made for thermal applications such as applying a heat sink.

ethanmlego
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:16 pm

What happens if I use this tape? Will it bee better for me to not put them on?

broe23
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:32 am

ethanmlego wrote:
Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:16 pm
What happens if I use this tape? Will it bee better for me to not put them on?
The thermal tape that takes the place of paste, is not much. It is up to you for which that you want to use.
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SurferTim
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:40 am

You may want to consider the T412 here. It isn't cheap, but it conducts well.
https://www.micforg.co.jp/en/cat_tapee.html#t_t412

On one of my RPi3s, I use this:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silv ... hesive.htm
I know what it says about NOT using it with a CPU, but I think they mean a CPU with mechanical attachment points. Once you install a heatsink with this, it is attached FOREVER.

I used it with this heatsink (W30-20W).
https://www.micforg.co.jp/en/c_w30e.html

Edit: Just a warning. The W30 heatsink must placed so as to clear mounted electronic components. The placement position is very limited with no room for error.

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mahjongg
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:36 pm

[pedantic mode] anything that fills up the gap between a chip and its heatsink will be a better heat conductor than just air, whether its some kind of plastic, paste or metal its always better than an air gap. [/pedantic mode] ;)

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scruss
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:06 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:36 pm
[pedantic mode] anything that fills up the gap between a chip and its heatsink will be a better heat conductor than just air, whether its some kind of plastic, paste or metal its always better than an air gap. [/pedantic mode] ;)
Amen to that.

It's not as if the Raspberry Pi isn't powerful enough to run a simple finite element model to show heat transfer through the tape. As long as the adhesive is rated for temperature and it's filling any voids, it's better than air.
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SurferTim
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:16 pm

While it is true that something is better than nothing, my goal was to keep the little thermometer from appearing in the upper right corner of the GUI under a heavy CPU load
Tried the Adafruit heatsink/tape. Still got it.

Used the W30 heatsink above with the silver adhesive. Didn't get it.
Used the W30 heatsink above with a 30mm fan, and even in a stress test at 100% CPU load, mine never climbs above 40 degrees C.

broe23
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:50 am

SurferTim wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:40 am
You may want to consider the T412 here. It isn't cheap, but it conducts well.
https://www.micforg.co.jp/en/cat_tapee.html#t_t412

On one of my RPi3s, I use this:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silv ... hesive.htm
I know what it says about NOT using it with a CPU, but I think they mean a CPU with mechanical attachment points. Once you install a heatsink with this, it is attached FOREVER.

I used it with this heatsink (W30-20W).
https://www.micforg.co.jp/en/c_w30e.html

Edit: Just a warning. The W30 heatsink must placed so as to clear mounted electronic components. The placement position is very limited with no room for error.
This is what I used for a Core 2 Quad Core and have not had any issues. Actually works better than the paste. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009 ... UTF8&psc=1
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

broe23
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:56 am

SurferTim wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:16 pm
While it is true that something is better than nothing, my goal was to keep the little thermometer from appearing in the upper right corner of the GUI under a heavy CPU load
Tried the Adafruit heatsink/tape. Still got it.

Used the W30 heatsink above with the silver adhesive. Didn't get it.
Used the W30 heatsink above with a 30mm fan, and even in a stress test at 100% CPU load, mine never climbs above 40 degrees C.
Try this. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009 ... UTF8&psc=1 You may want to get some of the sensors that you can attach to see what the temps are or use a thermal thermometer to see what is going on. Used to be that we just used Thermal Crayons and paint for those items we needed to know which item was going too hot. The Markal Thermomelt Crayons do come in various temps and are great in knowing which chip is overheating.
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

SurferTim
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:01 pm

broe23 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:56 am
SurferTim wrote:
Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:16 pm
While it is true that something is better than nothing, my goal was to keep the little thermometer from appearing in the upper right corner of the GUI under a heavy CPU load
Tried the Adafruit heatsink/tape. Still got it.

Used the W30 heatsink above with the silver adhesive. Didn't get it.
Used the W30 heatsink above with a 30mm fan, and even in a stress test at 100% CPU load, mine never climbs above 40 degrees C.
Try this. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009 ... UTF8&psc=1 You may want to get some of the sensors that you can attach to see what the temps are or use a thermal thermometer to see what is going on. Used to be that we just used Thermal Crayons and paint for those items we needed to know which item was going too hot. The Markal Thermomelt Crayons do come in various temps and are great in knowing which chip is overheating.
I'm using the onboard temperature sensor. Thanks for the link to the thermal adhesive. I'll give it a try on my next project.

AJB2K3
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:08 pm

Wow, shows how out of touch I am, I didn't know Artic silver made an adhesive version.
I am going to have to buy some for my 3d printer as the stepper drivers had no adhesive with the heatsinks!
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Nowadays technology makes us look like villages fools in front of the children!

broe23
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Re: Alumininium heatsinks with thermally insulating adhesive.

Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:22 am

AJB2K3 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:08 pm
Wow, shows how out of touch I am, I didn't know Artic silver made an adhesive version.
I am going to have to buy some for my 3d printer as the stepper drivers had no adhesive with the heatsinks!
Yep. If you need to know temps, get the crayons that are out there. They start around 105 deg's F.
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good.

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