User avatar
varkey
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:56 am
Location: Kerala, India
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:07 am

^ True.

In my case, the actual duty was about 12.5 USD and 7.5 USD was DHL's Handling fee! :evil:

jamesh
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Posts: 26032
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:41 pm

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:11 pm

I can see where the miscommunication has arisen, but as I understand it, standard delivery for RS is courier, as is stated somewhere in their T&C's/delivery section of their website.

As to the tax situations and DHL's rather high fees, I agree, they are exorbitant, but nothing to do with the Foundation.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
“My wife said to me `...you’re not even listening`.
I thought, that’s an odd way to start a conversation.."

User avatar
emercer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:54 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:22 pm

jamesh wrote:I can see where the miscommunication has arisen, but as I understand it, standard delivery for RS is courier, as is stated somewhere in their T&C's/delivery section of their website.
Whenever I do business with RS I use the even-more-rational "pick order up at local representative", they'll actually ship internally from wherever in the world they have your parts and the parts are delivered to you by local mail (or courier, or donkey express, or you just drive there - whatever). Since they import/export in bulk, the taxes are infinitesimally small compared to the 60% private import tax. For some reason that is not an option with the R-Pi (actually, for some reason there are no options whatsoever with the Pi, it's "standard shipping" or bust :evil:).

Phil Spiegel
Posts: 210
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:17 am
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:38 pm

As a change 8-) , and based on the subject title of this thread ... since the most expensive Pi was the first Pi auctioned and which was then gifted by the anonymous purchaser to the new Computing Museum ...... how about some news on that and its exhibits????
It would make a change from trying to rewrite Tax laws [although in the UK there have recently been claimed to be, or not to be, that is the question; 3 U-turns on taxes .... but only affecting a Raspberry Pi in the seconds after it is out of the solder oven :)
[Changing the Ethernet socket would have incurred an automatic 20% VAT rating?????, as it involved re-heating.]

[Non-UK residents: Whilst 'Hot Take Away Food' has been taxed with VAT for many years, hot Pasties, and the like, fresh out of the oven, and kept warm, often weren't.
The UK government decided to tax them ayway, and there was protest. Now, unless they are kept (artificially) hot or reheated, they will be taxed, otherwise not.
So get them fresh from the oven, and not from the back of the queue 8-)

User avatar
redhawk
Posts: 3465
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:13 pm
Location: ::1

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:32 pm

talking of expensive anyone seen this - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Raspberry-Pi-Mo ... 00883KMZ4/ ?? :lol:

Richard S.

User avatar
emercer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:54 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:17 pm

Phil Spiegel wrote:As a change 8-) , and based on the subject title of this thread ... since the most expensive Pi was the first Pi auctioned and which was then gifted by the anonymous purchaser to the new Computing Museum ...... how about some news on that and its exhibits????
Definitely, maybe on a next edition of the MagPi? We're all curious, I guess.

kromulo
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:31 am

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:55 am

If you buy the A version of the R-Pi the tax won't need to be paid, i guess.

Isenções:Remessas no valor total de até US$ 50.00 (cinqüenta dólares americanos) estão isentas dos impostos , apenas se forem transportadas pelo serviço postal, e que o remetente e o destinatário sejam pessoas físicas;
Exemptions:Shipments totaling up to U.S. $ 50.00 (fifty dollars) shall be exempt from taxes only if they are transported by the postal service, and that the sender and recipient are individuals;
http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/aduana/rts.htm

ps: We need a brazilian reseller or a factory to build/assemble parts inside our country.
pps: if you need a partner here, i'm available.

User avatar
emercer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:54 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:37 am

kromulo wrote: Exemptions:Shipments totaling up to U.S. $ 50.00 (fifty dollars) shall be exempt from taxes only if they are transported by the postal service, and that the sender and recipient are individuals;
That's the point: RS used DHL, which is not, by definition, a postal service; it is a courier. Therefore, anything, no matter how cheap or small, pays 60% tax.

ronanpaixao
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:19 pm

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:38 pm

Just for the record, I received my shipping quote today. I ordered from Farnell, and also live in Brazil, though they didn't charge shipping when I bought it. Now I've been told that the shipping is US$40! That is more than the Raspberry Pi itself! Furthermore, there was no option for "normal" shipping at the time, and I bet that the courier service will charge more when the package gets here (they always charge more).

That is totally unnerving. At least from my point of view, the Raspberry Pi is getting too much expensive, specially from the point of view of a developing nation. If I get charged the taxes outside those U$75 that I have already paid, the Pi will be almost the price of a normal, full-fledged dual-core computer, and that is including the monitor and hard drive! That totally misses the point of getting a cheap computer to developing nations.

Develpers of the Raspberry Pi: if you really wanted to get a cheap computer out to the masses, you really should have dropped the massively expensive UK manufacturers and gotten in touch with the chinese manufacturers. There are some even looking out for independent open source products, like Seeed Studio or Itead Studio. Those ship very cheaply for all around the world and have contact with large scale electronics manufacturers.

User avatar
MadHorseman
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:48 am
Location: Almadena, W Algarve, Portugal
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:19 pm

ronanpaixao wrote: Develpers of the Raspberry Pi: if you really wanted to get a cheap computer out to the masses, you really should have dropped the massively expensive UK manufacturers and gotten in touch with the chinese manufacturers.

er??

sironitomas
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:59 pm

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:26 pm

I couldn't agree more in this thread. Same thing happened to me with my Pi being delivered to Argentina. If RS used a postal service instead of a courier, it would be much, much cheaper!

User avatar
rurwin
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4258
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2012 3:16 pm
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:26 pm

That totally misses the point of getting a cheap computer to developing nations.

Develpers of the Raspberry Pi: if you really wanted to get a cheap computer out to the masses, you really should have dropped the massively expensive UK manufacturers and gotten in touch with the chinese manufacturers.
They did. The Raspberry Pi is made in China. Any inefficiency in shipping is down to the distributors, RS and Farnell, not the developers.

But if I may say so, that totally misses the point of getting a cheap computer to developing nations. If you want to avoid paying tax to the Brazilian government, maybe the Brazilian government has some responsibility here. Why should UK companies go out of their way to avoid a Brazilian tax?

User avatar
emercer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:54 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:12 pm

rurwin wrote:But if I may say so, that totally misses the point of getting a cheap computer to developing nations. If you want to avoid paying tax to the Brazilian government, maybe the Brazilian government has some responsibility here. Why should UK companies go out of their way to avoid a Brazilian tax?
The Brazilian government is using the import tax as a punitive tax on couriers to force Brazilians to use the mail. And we do, and it is one of the best gosh-darn postal services in the world, all things considered.
And so we choose to use Correios (the Brazilian private postal concessionary) for most small international parcels. But RS and Farnell are not giving us the option, are they? We are being punished by their lack of care for the vision of cheap computers for the young masses, as long as they get their money.
How do I know it's lack of care? When I contacted costumer services at RS and told them what was happening, and why, they took their sweet time (if they are not in a hurry, why use a courier?) and six days later they told me they were updating the FAQ to reflect the fact that some people will incur punitive taxes for using a courier.

Not give us the option, but update the FAQ. Sweet. Very caring of them.

User avatar
emercer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:54 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:25 pm

jamesh wrote:As to the tax situations and DHL's rather high fees, I agree, they are exorbitant, but nothing to do with the Foundation.
And since we are on the subject of caring, and of missing the point, may I give my two cents on why this is not at all the Foundation's fault, but it does, indeed, have a lot to do with it?

If I were Eben, or Rob, Jack, Alan, Liz, Pete Lomas, David Braben or any of the others who busted their balls for six years to make an affordable computer for kids around the world to tinker and fall in love with CS as we did back in the seventies and eighties and I managed to bring the price down to a measly 35 dollars by way of blood, sweat and tears, to know they could be getting to people's hands for under 50 bucks (including VAT and shipping) but instead they were costing some people in India, Brazil, Argentina etc (the very places where computer equipment and education is most expensive, and lacking) upwards of 100 dollars would make me plenty pissed.

It is not the Foundations fault, but they can and should do something about it.

And we can do something about it as well: we can refuse. We can tell the DHL man "no, thank you, that is abusive" and make them ship those Pis back to RS and Farnell and ask for a full refund. When they pay for a few international round-trips on DHL, they'll start to care.

ronanpaixao
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:19 pm

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:52 pm

rurwin wrote:
But if I may say so, that totally misses the point of getting a cheap computer to developing nations. If you want to avoid paying tax to the Brazilian government, maybe the Brazilian government has some responsibility here. Why should UK companies go out of their way to avoid a Brazilian tax?
Even though some people made references to circunventing Brazillian tax (which is by itself quite high), what I was referring to was actual shipping charges. I don't see much problem paying import taxes on $35. But charging $40 (more than the Raspberry Pi itself), and then paying 60% over the full $75 makes over for $85 added to the value of the product, getting to the total of US$120, which is the same as saying that we are adding 242% over the value of the Pi just to get the board to our homes.

In contrast, if the Pis were shipped straight from China, with some sites like Seeed Studio charging $3.77 for shipping under $50 (yes, it's free if it's over $50), then we would be adding almost just the import taxes. For comparison, from 242% we get down to 77%, including import duties (if applicable, since it would be under $50 and shipping through normal postal service).

MendelGusmao
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:07 pm

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:37 pm

Hi pc77!

I think your RasPi wasn't the most expensive in the world.

No! Mine was! (at least in Brazil)

I paid USD 35 (BRL 70) for the RasPi through Newark/Element14.
I paid USD 40 (BRL 80) for the freight.

OK, USD 75. For me it's fine.

But when the UPS guy arrived at my floor to deliver it to me, it asked for...

BRL 193,51 or USD 95.91

total is

BRL 343.51 or USD 170.25

Our customhouse is very weird and there is nothing to do. There is a law that includes the freight tax in calculation and including the so called "administrative taxes" and other silly taxes.

So, at the end, I paid only on the taxes 129% of what I already paid for the Raspi+freight. To make the calculations even worse and sad, the final price is 276% of the worldwide announced price of RasPi.

Sadly, I don't think it's worth the price to stay with the unit, so I began selling it. Fortunately, I selled it to a friend who doesn't care that much about money and there is another one coming from RS, whose freight price is 8 USD. As I ordered a power supply too, the total price is about 50 USD and I expect the price after the taxes to be more affordable.

I learned that I should have asked an aunt who lives in USA to buy it to me and send as a gift... It's the only way to have the cheapest computer in the world according to its purposes: to be cheap.

Brazil and Receita Federal are a real pain for taxes.

MendelGusmao
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:07 pm

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:18 pm

Sorry, just a correction: the final price is 490% of the RasPi's announced price.

akhilpo
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 7:17 pm

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:09 pm

I was really excited about rpi and was hopping to buy one as soon as it will be available. But after reading this thread, I am kind of disillusioned.

User avatar
emercer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:54 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:17 pm

akhilpo wrote:I was really excited about rpi and was hopping to buy one as soon as it will be available. But after reading this thread, I am kind of disillusioned.
Don't be. The gadget is real, the vision is real. Capitalism sometimes sucks, but the good will prevail. Hold on tight, it will be sorted out ;)

nahuel
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:15 pm
Location: Tandil, Argentina

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:20 pm

sironitomas wrote:I couldn't agree more in this thread. Same thing happened to me with my Pi being delivered to Argentina. If RS used a postal service instead of a courier, it would be much, much cheaper!
How much did you end up paying? I've ordered from Argentina too, but after seeing all these comments I'm thinking about cancelling my order before they ship it out.

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Fri Jun 08, 2012 10:42 pm

I'm very limited in what clout I have with the individual distribution decisions each company is making in each country, but out of interest, Brazilians: does your national postal service have a signed-for delivery option?
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

User avatar
emercer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:54 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:08 am

Yep, the SEDEX (Correio's parcel service) has, as options, "Aviso de Recebimento" (delivery notification) and "Mão Própria" (delivered only to the addressee). Even without such options, parcels must be signed on delivery.

ronanpaixao
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:19 pm

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:34 am

I have just received the UPS quote for the import duties here in Brazil. The duties will be around BRL 150, which is pretty much 100% of the Pi + shipping.

If counting that the shipping was not included when I bought the Pi (it was included and charged later by E14, and they shipped before asking me if that was right), and that 1USD ~= 2BRL, I'm paying approximately 428% of the announced cost of the Pi.

User avatar
emercer
Posts: 165
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:54 am
Location: Sao Paulo, Brazil
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:59 am

Just stirring the pot a little:

Last Friday marked a month since I refused delivery of my Raspberry Pi and three weeks since the last time I heard anything from RS about it. They never sent me a tracking e-mail in the first place, took a whole week to answer my e-mail about the subject and haven't even had the decency of contacting me about my situation since (though I did poke them on the subject when it grew two weeks old). No mention of a solution, be it a better shipping solution or a refund.

RS is really handling this situation like a doozy. Think I'll be forced to issue a chargeback.

User avatar
liz
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Foundation Employee & Forum Moderator
Posts: 5212
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:22 pm
Contact: Website

Re: The most expensive R-Pi of the world!

Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:49 pm

I spoke to Mike this morning, and apparently Brazilian orders are now being sent via local parcel post to avoid liability for that massive courier tax. It's meant that some orders in that country have been held up (they held them back until the new shipping method was available), but I understand that Brazilian customers should have had email about this now.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

Return to “General discussion”