chairmanmao
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Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:04 pm

Okay, so I'm a slow learner, currently stuck waiting, for the second time, for my wheezy to jessie upgrade to crash because I don't have enough space left on my SD card to install the new wolfram-engine.

Once I get back control of my pi -- the disk is showing as 100% full, but the upgrade is still doing something -- I'll try to use apt-mark to keep wolfram at bay the next time.

But the real question, to me, is why is wolfram-engine included in the default distribution anyway? It's such a huge package, that I suspect isn't widely used. Is there some relationship between wolfram and the Pi foundation?

Just curious.

- Mark

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Jednorozec
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:16 pm

If you don't like it why not just remove it?
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PeterO
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:23 pm

How big is your SD card , and have you expanded the file system with raspi-config ?

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chairmanmao
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:23 pm

Because I didn't realize how honking HUGE it was going to be before I started the upgrade.

And that's not my question. Which is, to repeat, >>why is it in the core distro in the first place<<? There are >>tons<< of packages that are not in the core distro. Why this one, which many people have complained about online?

mi7chy
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:24 pm

Did you expand the storage with Raspberry Pi Configuration to use all available space?

mathboy4life
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:28 pm

Some people like to do math equations, so i am guessing that's why wolfram is included?

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lpsw
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:33 pm

The Pi's primary mission is education. Makes sense to include it. It's a great package for math students. I have it installed on 2 Pis my kids use, on 8GB SD cards running Jessie Light. You will need to make sure you are using all of your SD card (as others have noted). Then just remove it.
Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is - Isaac Asimov

Pithagoros
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:34 pm

The mission of Raspberry Pi is education and Wolfram is about education. I don't think the choices for software bundled with Wolfram are geared towards the preferences of any one individual. I would prefer that Raspbian came without all the java cruft, but I understand it's not all about me so I spend a few minutes removing it myself.

I love Wolfram and use it regularly, plus it has never given me a problem with an update. A Raspbian image fits well within an 8GB SD card with bags of room to spare.
Last edited by Pithagoros on Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chairmanmao
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:36 pm

That almost makes sense, although I'm not sure about the basic mission argument. I was under the impression the Foundation's mission was much broader than just education.

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alexeames
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:37 pm

chairmanmao wrote:Because I didn't realize how honking HUGE it was going to be before I started the upgrade.

And that's not my question. Which is, to repeat, >>why is it in the core distro in the first place<<? There are >>tons<< of packages that are not in the core distro. Why this one, which many people have complained about online?
It has never been announced, [speculation on]but I suspect there may have been an agreement to include it.[speculation off] It was quite a coup to get that software freely available on Pi. I believe it's a paid-for package on all other platforms.

It's not hard to remove though if you want the space back

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get purge wolfram-engine
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lpsw
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:39 pm

Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is - Isaac Asimov

Pithagoros
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:39 pm

chairmanmao wrote:That almost makes sense, although I'm not sure about the basic mission argument. I was under the impression the Foundation's mission was much broader than just education.

Raspberry Pi Foundation

The Raspberry Pi Foundation is a registered educational charity (registration number 1129409) based in the UK. Our Foundation’s goal is to advance the education of adults and children, particularly in the field of computers, computer science and related subjects. See our stories page for more information about the Foundation’s charitable work.


https://www.raspberrypi.org/about/

chairmanmao
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:41 pm

That makes the most sense, even if it's speculation :). Particularly since, as you point out, it's not available for free on all platforms.

Oh well, most learning takes place by beating one's head bloody against previously-unseen walls :)

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Cancelor
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:41 pm

If you get the chance:-

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get purge wolfram-engine
sudo apt-get autoremove
You might also like:-

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get purge libreoffice sonic-pi scratch
sudo apt-get autoremove
:D
Can't find the thread you want? Try googling : YourSearchHere site:raspberrypi.org

chairmanmao
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:44 pm

Fair point, pythagoras, but when I read the entirety of the linked page it's pretty clear "education" is much more than "mathematics". In fact, I could use that charter to require every single package on the planet be included in the standard distro, since they all help educate people, by enabling new activities or creating opportunities to learn. So "education" alone isn't enough to decide what goes into the core distro and what doesn't.

Pithagoros
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:58 pm

chairmanmao wrote:Fair point, pythagoras, but when I read the entirety of the linked page it's pretty clear "education" is much more than "mathematics". In fact, I could use that charter to require every single package on the planet be included in the standard distro, since they all help educate people, by enabling new activities or creating opportunities to learn. So "education" alone isn't enough to decide what goes into the core distro and what doesn't.
I think the main point I am trying to make is that it is not possible to make a custom distribution for each individual and we all have our preferences - which we can indulge using apt-get.

Wolfram is a really very good piece of educational software and a main reason I choose Raspbian rather than other distributions. But as I said in an earlier comment, it's not all about me.

(btw, the reason for the apparent misspelling pithagoros is because the correct spelling was taken, as was pithagoras).

chairmanmao
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:02 pm

Understood. But, personally, I would prefer "big things not needed for general purposes" not be installed by default.

Apologies about your name. I missed the subtle distinction :)

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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 7:55 pm

chairmanmao wrote:Understood. But, personally, I would prefer "big things not needed for general purposes" not be installed by default.
Don't you think that they should decide what they want to install by default in their main distribution? If you prefer less, start out with Jessie Lite and add to that. You'll notice that it lacks the hated wolfram-engine.

chairmanmao
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:09 pm

I didn't say that I hated it, just that it's not what I'd call a core capability.

You're right, though, that the Foundation gets to decide what they put in their distro. But I'm also free to suggest ways they could improve it, and to point out where I think they've missed the mark. Contributing to me wasting an hour or more on an upgrade fits in that category :).

I'd prefer a Pi that functioned, but didn't have a lot of gubbage on it (e.g., libre, wolfram, games), along with a utility that let you install stuff that you wanted afterwards. Which already exists, in the form of apt-get or aptitude :).

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lpsw
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:27 pm

Install Jessie Light and add what you want.
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Heater
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:00 pm

I think I'm missing a point here. What is this Wolfram thing?

Seems to be giant calculator/plotter/database/programming language.

How does it magically teach maths?

Can it really teach me the fundamental ideas of Pythagoras, Euclid, Newton, Gödel? And all the rest of mathematics?
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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davidcoton
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:14 pm

Heater wrote:I think I'm missing a point here. What is this Wolfram thing?

Seems to be giant calculator/plotter/database/programming language.

How does it magically teach maths?

Can it really teach me the fundamental ideas of Pythagoras, Euclid, Newton, Gödel? And all the rest of mathematics?
How can a pencil (or a word processor) teach creative writing? They are all tools for learning. Try teaching without appropriate tools :o :cry: .
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Heater
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:23 pm

davidcoton,

So all a teacher needs is a blackboard. The students can have pencil and paper.

Tell me again, what is Wolfram for ?
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:38 pm

Heater wrote: So all a teacher needs is a blackboard. The students can have pencil and paper.
Because that works so well for teaching, oh, I dunno, computing?

Schools haven't had blackboards for some years.
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alexeames
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Re: Why Is wolfram-engine included?

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:39 pm

chairmanmao wrote:I didn't say that I hated it, just that it's not what I'd call a core capability.

You're right, though, that the Foundation gets to decide what they put in their distro. But I'm also free to suggest ways they could improve it, and to point out where I think they've missed the mark. Contributing to me wasting an hour or more on an upgrade fits in that category :).
Did you by any chance learn something in this process? :lol:

If so, mission accomplished. :lol:
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