W. H. Heydt
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:25 pm

mi7chy wrote: I hope the RPi foundation can figure it out because it could mean taking over the world and replacing Apple as a household name vs being a niche. And, with wider adoption the cost can be spread out over mass production. RPi3 is getting closer but still hasn't hit the sweet spot as far as user experience.
Consider... The RPF has sold about 9 million Pis over 4 years. Approximately 100 million PCs sell *every* year. Approximately 1 *billion* phones and tablets sell *every* year.

The Pi is a very big frog in a very, very small pond.

The only way the Pi could be more than a trivially minor blip on world computer sales is that it is *possible* that the Pi accounts for a significant fraction of new consumer Linux systems each year.

mi7chy
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:57 pm

Heater wrote:mi7chy,
Where did you get the bizarre idea that charitable organization with an educational mission should be aiming to usurp Apple, or anyone else, as a supplier of general purpose computers and mobile phones?
You do know Apple started out as a low cost alternative and with focus on education? Sound familiar to what RPi is doing? Regardless of non-profit or profit the goal is to get people to know about and use your product. And, the trend with every new Pi release is better performance and usability but it's not quite there to reach wide acceptance but to hit the sweet spot is very doable. Apologizing about doesn't help one bit though.

fsck
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:30 pm

In my humble opinion, the current chip design has run it's course. The A53 cores kick ass, of course, but the rest of the SoC is pretty dated now. It has a 1GB memory limit. The GPU, while being the only one on the market with open source drivers, is getting dated. The single USB lane is an I/O bottleneck.

What I'm hoping is that the Foundation has enough money saved up to look into a new chip design, and that Broadcom is willing/able to provide. My wishlist would include:

28nm
Gigabit PHY
At least two USB2.0 lanes or one USB3.0 lane
An updated Video Core that either comes with open source drivers or is similar enough to VC4 to be mostly compatible with Eric Anholt's existing work (for example, more QPUs?). It took 4 years of work for him and others just to get to where we are now...
2GB RAM

Unless they have already secretly been working on something new, I would also guess that we won't see a new device at the very least until the end of 2017...

Heater
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:49 pm

mi7chy,
You do know Apple started out as a low cost alternative and with focus on education?
Perhaps, maybe. When Woz was designing the first Apple boards. But this was true of the entire micro-computer revolution at the time.

From my perspective Apple was always far too expensive for normal people to buy. That is why us kids had C64's and Sinclair Spectrums etc.
Sound familiar to what RPi is doing?
No. You are going to have to dig pretty hard to find any evidence that Apple has ever been anything other than a money making operation. The Pi Foundation is a charity.
Regardless of non-profit or profit the goal is to get people to know about and use your product.
Except the goal of the Raspberry Pi was to increase the number of applicants to CS degree programs and have the applicants know something about programming before they get there. See any of Eben's early Pi presentations.
And, the trend with every new Pi release is better performance and usability but it's not quite there to reach wide acceptance but to hit the sweet spot is very doable.
There is no way one is going to turn a Pi into an Apple computer or phone in terms of "user experience" without an Apple scale budget to spend on UI and other development.
Apologizing about doesn't help one bit though.
I have no idea what you mean by that.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

mi7chy
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:30 pm

Heater wrote:I have no idea what you mean by that.
Come back when you've sobered up and realize that you're in a thread about progressing the RPi.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:39 pm

This is for the annoying people who buy a RPi and realise they have bought the wrong product
and then decide to post here with demands for a better model to save their blushes:

viewtopic.php?f=62&t=144642
The information is out there....you just have to let it in.

asandford
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Location: Waterlooville

Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:47 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote: I beg to differ. Shutdown is a termination of processes and an orderly cessation of activity. Power off is the removal of electrical power to the system. Now, I will grant you that there are machines that can, as a final step of shutdown signal the power regulation or PSU to drop power, but they're still distinct functions and mistaking one for the other can lead to file system corruption.
So as I said, the Pi can't regulate power, so they are effectively the same (but poweroff is easier to type that shutdown -this -that -theother)

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davidcoton
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:56 pm

mi7chy wrote:...you're in a thread about progressing the RPi.
No, the thread is about "Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models". While there are many things that could, technically, be added, given a large enough development budget, one of the essential criteria is that the addition should further the Foundation's educational aims. Competing with Apple, Microsoft, or any other commercial organisation for the general purpose PC market does not do that. So any suggestions that are intended solely for that market are likely to be low priorities, and will not of themselves justify development expenditure. Of course, many additions that serve the educational aims will be of more general use, and if progress so far is anything to go by, the Pi's general performance and capability is improving far faster than the Big Boy producers' products. And general purpose sales of the Pi fund the educational activities. But so far it has proved difficult to produce enough Pis (especially Pi 3 and Pi Zero) to satisfy current demand. So it is a safe assumption that we will not see any dramatic developments over the next year that will stoke up demand (I can be wrong :shock: :o ). When the Foundation's educational aims require major new features -- there have been hints that any Pi 4 would be in this category -- no doubt some of the other wish list items will be incorporated.
Location: 345th cell on the right of the 210th row of L2 cache

Heater
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Tue Apr 19, 2016 12:15 am

mi7chy,
Come back when you've sobered up and realize that you're in a thread about progressing the RPi.
I see no need for the slanderous abuse.

This thread is not about progressing the Pi. It's just a discussion of a list of features our OP came up with. There have been many such discussions here recently.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

texy
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Re: Things that could be added to future Raspberry Pi models

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:47 am

I think the subject has been discussed enough now and is rapidly turning south, so locking.
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

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