jamesh
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:35 pm

6by9 wrote:
jamesh wrote:As for Zero's didn't have a chance to chat for too long (I'd just got married and apparently you need to mingle with the party goers, who knew?), but they are going to selling in pretty big quantities from next Monday. Eben seemed pretty chilled about it all!
You invited Eben but not me :(
Then again that means I escaped listening to your guitar playing :lol: (and then someone put it on Facebook....)
Soz Dave! Was quite crowded as it was! Apart from the bit in front of the stage - strangely, people seemed to vacate that bit when we started playing....
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:09 pm

jamesh wrote:I'd just got married and apparently you need to mingle with the party goers, who knew?
Congrats. I hope you do as well as my wife and I have done. We're coming up on 45 years.

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rpdom
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:10 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
jamesh wrote:I'd just got married and apparently you need to mingle with the party goers, who knew?
Congrats. I hope you do as well as my wife and I have done. We're coming up on 45 years.
Just coming up to 4 years here.

My first Pi arrived a few days before our wedding. My wife-to-be wasn't that impressed by the timing.

geoffr
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:28 pm

jamesh wrote:People think about new CPU/RAM need to drop their expectations - those are simply not new features! That's a major product release!

And try to remember the cost of the Zero - it's $5 (I assume it's staying the same price). Big changes are expensive.
Small changes aside, this discussion got me thinking about what is required to get a Pi Zero operational. For the most part, it looks like almost everyone is setting up WiFi on their Zeros. That means, as a fairly common denominator, it looks like you need a microSD card, OTG cable and USB Wifi card.

If we ignore shipping, this sets you up with roughly the following costs:
  1. Pi Zero: USD 5.00
  2. OTG Cable: USD 1.30 (USD 1.37 on DealExtreme)
  3. MicroSD card: USD 4.00 (you should be able to get a reasonable 8GB card for this)
  4. USB WiFi dongle: USD 5.50 (USD 5.57 on DealExtreme - Edup adaptor, works on Pi Zero)
This leaves you on USD 15.80 all up, assuming you already have a power supply.

I think you can thus assume that for most people, getting a Pi Zero running costs about USD 15.00. If it were possible to add onboard wireless and (let's say) 4Gb of onboard flash, you probably would have a retail price point of USD 15.00 to play with. (Forget the fact that the CHIP "retails" for USD 9.00 - it has no community.)
I seem to recall that the cost of adding wireless to the Pi3 was in the region of USD 2.50. I suspect onboard flash would be that or less. Based on that, I suspect it may be possible to go to market at a price point of between USD 10.00 and USD 12.00 with these features added. The issue with WiFi is regulatory certification - that is an expensive and tedious process.

For that matter, I would happily pay USD 10.00 for a Pi Zero with WiFi and no onboard flash.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:07 am

geoffr wrote:(Forget the fact that the CHIP "retails" for USD 9.00 - it has no community.)
It also has no on-board video other than composite. The cheapest option for anything better is VGA for $15, making a *working* system....$24, which is rather more than your low-ball figure fora working Pi Zero.

geoffr
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:39 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
geoffr wrote:(Forget the fact that the CHIP "retails" for USD 9.00 - it has no community.)
It also has no on-board video other than composite. The cheapest option for anything better is VGA for $15, making a *working* system....$24, which is rather more than your low-ball figure fora working Pi Zero.
Good point. I wonder what proportion of Pi Zeros are being run with video? I run most of my Pis headless.

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rpdom
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:43 am

geoffr wrote:I wonder what proportion of Pi Zeros are being run with video? I run most of my Pis headless.
I mostly run headless on all my Pis, but occasionally I will need to connect one to video to check the boot or do something else. I only have one (working) Zero at the moment, but am planning to get more soon.

gregeric
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:21 am

geoffr wrote:Small changes aside, this discussion got me thinking about what is required to get a Pi Zero operational. For the most part, it looks like almost everyone is setting up WiFi on their Zeros. That means, as a fairly common denominator, it looks like you need a microSD card, OTG cable and USB Wifi card.

For that matter, I would happily pay USD 10.00 for a Pi Zero with WiFi and no onboard flash.
Breaking out SDIO on a separate header from the existing GPIO would address the WIFi issue whilst leaving both that single USB port unused and the full GPIO port available for any HAT. Almost a zero cost change, 4 or 6 PTHs for the data lines plus another for power (they could be extra generous & fit series termination resistors).

That would allow the user to lash up a $2 ESP8266 (behaving as an ESP8089, no AT firmware in sight) for fast wireless. And whatever SDIO WiFi module Broadcom might come up with. Would be good for the 3A too - two lots of savings on certification costs. That's how the CHIP does it, using an off-the-shelf FCC approved module.

mkelly99
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:30 pm

eupton wrote:A quick update.

Raspberry PI Zero production is restarting in Wales next Monday after a hiatus to allow us to focus on Raspberry Pi 3 (a million units built and counting :D). We have placed 250ku of new orders, and are aiming to produce at least 50ku/month for the rest of this year. Distribution will continue to be via Pimoroni, Pi Hut, Adafruit and Micro Center for now.

To thank you for your patience, we've taken advantage of the hiatus to add a (much requested) new feature. I'll leave you all to guess what it is (it's not WiFi).
Now that the Monday mentioned has passed, is there a delivery date to the distis? Any idea which distis, if any, will allow bulk purchases and/or bulk pre-orders? We've done some Pi-Zero Hats (http://www.pi2design.com) and really want to bundle them as complete kits with a zero. We can easily handle the 40-pin header.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 1:39 pm

geoffr wrote:(Forget the fact that the CHIP "retails" for USD 9.00 - it has no community.)
Considering they haven't yet delivered widely available production hardware, I'd say the CHIP community is remarkably active. Certainly it's not at the level of the RPi, but, for an English speaker at least, it looks to be far better than the various Chinese (fruit) Pi knockoffs.

The reason the Zero has high performance video capabilities is that the chip family was intended for set top boxes so HDMI is embedded in the SOC. As an "internet of things device" I see that as a "nice to have" rather than a discriminating feature for my likely applications. As an IOT device, the absence of a native internet interface seems rather more important. If IOT is the intended niche, CHIP seems closer to the mark, presuming they can actually deliver on the promise.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:17 pm

mkelly99 wrote:
eupton wrote:A quick update.

Raspberry PI Zero production is restarting in Wales next Monday after a hiatus to allow us to focus on Raspberry Pi 3 (a million units built and counting :D). We have placed 250ku of new orders, and are aiming to produce at least 50ku/month for the rest of this year. Distribution will continue to be via Pimoroni, Pi Hut, Adafruit and Micro Center for now.

To thank you for your patience, we've taken advantage of the hiatus to add a (much requested) new feature. I'll leave you all to guess what it is (it's not WiFi).
Now that the Monday mentioned has passed, is there a delivery date to the distis? Any idea which distis, if any, will allow bulk purchases and/or bulk pre-orders? We've done some Pi-Zero Hats (http://www.pi2design.com) and really want to bundle them as complete kits with a zero. We can easily handle the 40-pin header.
I don't know what a "distis" is, unless you mean the latin imperfect "repealed".
I find that information about the availability of the Pi is best from the actual resellers (all of which are named by Eben in his message), either sign up to their email notifications or follow them on twitter.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 2:33 pm

PiZero Roadmap: Pull over. Park the car. Wait a week, or more.

NicoVanDerDussen
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:12 pm

You can check stock at nvdd.info/1ROCvYy

Website not associated with suppliers, the foundation or me :)
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:45 pm

I was going to say FM antenna, but then remembered that was a Pi3 un-enabled feature, not Pi0. A separate SDIO pinout is a worthy idea, but I don't recall that being often requested.
Last edited by jbeale on Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:47 pm

NicoVanDerDussen wrote:You can check stock at nvdd.info/1ROCvYy

Website not associated with suppliers, the foundation or me :)
nvdd.info is registered to "nico van der dussen" :roll:

- your link redirects to http://whereismypizero.com - so better to just post that !
jbeale wrote:I'd think the most likely new feature is making the FM antenna input pin available somehow
not on a pi zero - the fm tuner is inside the wifi/bt chip on the pi3.
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:23 pm

jbeale wrote:A separate SDIO pinout is a worthy idea, but I don't recall that being often requested.
File it under "WiFi please" (enables its addition), or even "2nd USB port" (one USB still free after addition of WiFi this way).

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:52 pm

Pithagoros wrote:
I don't know what a "distis" is, unless you mean the latin imperfect "repealed".
I find that information about the availability of the Pi is best from the actual resellers (all of which are named by Eben in his message), either sign up to their email notifications or follow them on twitter.

"distis: n plural form of disti abbreviation: distributor"*


*It should probably have been spelt disties
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Pithagoros
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:52 pm

alexeames wrote:
Pithagoros wrote:
I don't know what a "distis" is, unless you mean the latin imperfect "repealed".
I find that information about the availability of the Pi is best from the actual resellers (all of which are named by Eben in his message), either sign up to their email notifications or follow them on twitter.

"distis: n plural form of disti abbreviation: distributor"*


*It should probably have been spelt disties
I wondered if it was that, but the quoted comment from Eden clearly said:
"Distribution will continue to be via Pimoroni, Pi Hut, Adafruit and Micro Center for now."
So I assumed that the question "any idea what distis" would not be necessary.

dhalbert
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:51 pm

For the new feature, I would guess/hope a power LED and/or some "boot failed" indication. Without a proper image on the SD card, it gives no indication that it's alive in any way. This is a big support issue. For instance, there are a large number of posts at the Adafruit forum saying "My Pi Zero is dead", because the users have inserted no card or a card with an out-of-date image.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:50 am

Douglas6 wrote:PiZero Roadmap: Pull over. Park the car. Wait a week, or more.
It is going to be a week or two. For reasons. But definitely on the way!
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:30 am

eupton wrote:A quick update.

Raspberry PI Zero production is restarting in Wales next Monday after a hiatus to allow us to focus on Raspberry Pi 3 (a million units built and counting :D). We have placed 250ku of new orders, and are aiming to produce at least 50ku/month for the rest of this year. Distribution will continue to be via Pimoroni, Pi Hut, Adafruit and Micro Center for now.

To thank you for your patience, we've taken advantage of the hiatus to add a (much requested) new feature. I'll leave you all to guess what it is (it's not WiFi).
Now that it is in production, is there any chance of finding out what the new feature is for sure? If not, how about an idea of when we could find out? I'm planning on making a 3 hour drive this weekend to pick up some parts I wanted to know what the new feature is before I buy to see if it's worth waiting. I'd hate to go and get some and find out the new feature is something I really wanted.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:53 am

I doubt it will have made it to the shops for the weekend.

Feature will be announced when enough have been manufactured to sate demand. i.e. lots.
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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:05 am

I'm not normally one to criticise, but this is starting to look very childish to me.

There aren't any pi Zeros to buy, so the Osborne effect argument doesn't appear to apply. "We know something you don't! wisper wisper" is more suited to the far end of the infant playground.

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:12 am

jamesh wrote:I doubt it will have made it to the shops for the weekend.

.
Not even in the UK, let alone the States.
Various male/female 40- and 26-way GPIO header for sale here ( IDEAL FOR YOUR PiZero ):
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=93&t=147682#p971555

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Re: PiZero Roadmap

Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:50 am

jamesh wrote:Feature will be announced when enough have been manufactured to sate demand.
i assume you're having some fun, because this is a nonsense at all.

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